Is it possible to 'manage' a controlling husband?

[NotANaturalGeordie]

A little history - DH was emotionally neglected by his mother and regularly beaten/humiliated by his (now dead) step-father. We have had no contact with his mother for about 5 years. We have been together 15 yrs, married for 10 and have two DD, ages 7 and 2.

DH has control issues. For example, I pre plan dinners for budget reasons, and when I swapped the meals around for convenience sake he lost his temper, we had a huge row and he wouldn't let it drop until I was in tears. This sort of thing didn't use to happen but DD1 is now at the age he was when his mother married his step-dad. He will deliberately pick a fight and brow beat me until I cry, then he can 'forgive' me. He usually apologises and accepts responsibility for the arguments at a later point, maybe an hour or two later.

I love him, he loves me. I am not considering leaving him, but I would like advice on coping with his behaviour. I do not want to cry any more but neither can I go on like this. He refuses point blank to consider counselling.

Any advice? Any one living with someone like this and how do you manage?

Dear geordie, I get where you're coming from and I think you are absolutely right. There is a halfway between same old same old and leaving.

I have been married to the same man for 20 years and and we can have fearsome rows - we both have our trigger points and sometimes under stress can behave less than grown up. I read once that its not having the row thats important but how you make up.

Perhaps you can have the sort of conversation with your DH where he tries to identify what emotion he's feeling when he gets upset. Mine is validation - my opinions and feelings need to matter. I.e changing menus with consultation, could possible feel like "I'm not important enough to be asked about this" - my husband gets upset if he feels that he's not appreciated.

Most of the time we try to treat each other with consideration and appreciation - and I try to remember that that its not always about treating the other person as YOU would like to be treated, but as you know THEY would like to be treated.

Its not pussyfooting, its making a marriage work - and nobody said it wasn't hard work.

good luck - I don't believe he's abusive, just a bit screwed up like the rest of us.

sorry that should have been "changing menus withOUT consultation"

"There is a halfway between same old same old and leaving"

What is that though?. Staying within this situation that NANG describes is clearly not doing her or her children any favours whatsoever. However, she has to realise that for herself and she is not at that stage yet.

You do not think he is abusive?. He will deliberately pick a fight and browbeat NANG until she cries. NANG's husband had an abusive childhood and has now copied what he has learnt from those dark days into his relationship now. He would have acted the same regardless of whom he married. He does not want counselling. It takes two to make a marriage work as well; he is patently not interested in wanting to change things within the home.

NANGs situation re her H cannot be managed; trying to manage is always doomed to failure and a further lowering of self worth.

But NANG really wants to try to manage her DH and his behaviour before she comes to the decision that her marriage is not going to work. I think there are still some things that she can try, providing she recognises that they're not necessarily going to work!

As an example, she could sit down with him in a calm environment to talk about what she finds an unreasonable reaction from him. So, if changing menus provokes him, she could ask him what does he feel when something like that happens? If she could get him to talk about his feelings, e.g.., that he feels a loss of control, that it makes him feel panicky, at least then she would a) have some idea of what he feels in that situation and b) could talk to him about how he can manage his own response to the changed situation.

It might be that he needs more information to justify a change. So, "We're having chicken pie tonight, as the beef didn't defrost in time", might be less worrying to him than "It's chicken pie tonight".

The next step would be to talk through this scenario, so that he can think about this and actually say for himself what would be the worst outcome if he has chicken pie instead of beef stew. (Obviously, there isn't really a logically bad outcome unless a) NANG makes an awful chicken pie or b) he hates chicken). So he'll need to think about this, and work out that he's overreacted. This will probably be the most difficult part. And if he can't see that he's overreacting to small, unimportant changes to plans, then it's probably a sign that NANG should take very seriously.

mrs G you are asking NANG to efectively be a CBT practitioner for her H.
that isnt fair.
CBT therapist would address those scenarios as you say and help H to work out appropriate and non appropriate responses .

why should NANG play that role?

he has said he wont take counselling from a profressional - would he take it from (non-trained) NANG?

she could yes point him to CBT online etc or a book - but really given his background he should seek profressional help - maybe a series of six CBT sessions would really help him change HIS behaviours. but that will nly happen is he acknowledges them to be inappropriate and out of proportion.

NANG can work only on herself - she could adopt a different approach eg asking him to leave the dining table if he doesnt wish to eat the revised menu, not engaging in a row etc. calmly saying "this is today's food. you are not obliged to eat it. you can go prepare yourself something else from the fridge. " treat him like a badly behaved child/toddler etc.

The point here is a same old ... YOU CANNOT CONTROL ANOTHER PERSON'S BEHAVIOUR. As soon as you start that, you're heading down a very deep hole and you will fail. You can choose your own behaviours, then a dynamic will change and you may need to see what those changes look like.

With children, we teach them to manage their own behaviours - we don't control them as such. When the other person is an adult who is supposed to be our equal, trying to teach them is inappropriate and, again, will fail because their parents have already moulded them. The only person who can modify their behaviours is them, probably with professional guidance.

It makes no sense to twist your own personality out of shape to try and fit somebody else's view of life. When I suggested NANG try the "Yes, dear" approach, I didn't mean kowtow to him. I meant to recognise his position: He is upset when she changes the menu, so she can say "Yes, dear, I see you're disappointed we haven't got chips after all." This has the double advantage of giving him a reasonable hearing and keeping her out of the justification game.

With things like "Why did you do that ..." it is pointless to reply, except with a mild repetition of the actual reason. Better not to reply at all to headfuck questions! "How come it made you feel bad?" could be a more illuminating response, but you need to be good at the 'watching on TV' style of detachment before you can carry it off usefully - you rarely get a valid answer.

Sorry for seeming to talk past you, NANG. Later posts made me feel I should add this.

xpost, c'est. Yes, what you said about not being her partner's therapist :)

It may not be fair, but that IS what NANG wants to do. She wants to manage DH's behaviour, and the only way to do that is to ask him about his feelings when he behaves in a certain way, and encourage him to think about worst case scenarios. It may very well be full on CBT therapy, but to my mind is no more than a helpful best friend might say when you go to her/him with a problem. The difference here, of course, is that DH HASN'T gone to NANG!

She can of course work on her own approach to his outbursts, but it won't necessarily stop them, which is what she wants. If she can't talk to her DH like this (either she doesn't think it's something she can do, or he won't talk to her), then it may help her see that DH's unchanged behaviour is so very damaging to both her, and to her DCs.

Don't forget, NANG doesn't want to give up on her marriage just yet, or indeed, later. She still believes in him, and loves him and wants to try to find a way to get him to change. I can't think of anything else she can do, given that she's doesn't appear ready to think of this as domestic abuse. More "explosive outbursts" to be managed.

Oh for heavens sake... NANG can't manage him. She's looking for a magic wand that will never ever materialise.

I've spent YEARS just asking my (now) Ex just to stop being mean... nothing more did I ask of him. I didn't ask for respect, equality, consideration, kindness, sympathy, help... none of the things I ACTUALLY have a right to expect from someone who allegedly loves me.

This man NANG takes pleasure in reducing you to tears he had told you this!

He could stop any time he wants to, you don't need to manage him, he can manage himself... but he CHOOSES to do what he can to MAKE YOU CRY

There IS no coping strategy with behaviour of this kind.

You, I, nor anyone (especially children) should ever have to.

NANG this must be frustrating for you, hardly any of us are giving you what you asked for! Please keep posting, even though we may not seem supportive of your choice we are worried about you and your girls.

Would he be shocked if you told him that in the eyes of WA he is an abusive husband? Do you think your H would read, say the Lundy book? It really is his behaviour that needs to change.

I agree with all the posters saying that you can't, and shouldn't have to, manage your H's behaviour.

However, it is possible for your H to change his behaviour, if he chooses to.

I really recommend Should I stay or should I go. It's by Lundy Bancroft, who's other book is so regularly recommended on here and is a workbook for women hoping to save (or deciding whether to leave) their relationships with problematic men.

It really helped me understand my marriage and understand what my h needed to do to save our relationship. There are also resources to support men to change.

Good luck, and do keep posting.

I think 2 of these arguments a week is too many. It means 2/7th of your relationship/life he is happy to make you cry so that he feels better about himself even if he 'makes it up to you' later.

He cannot argue with himself or insult you if you are not there.

Remove yourself when it starts rather than getting involved. Even if it means putting your coat on and leaving the house for some time.

yep download here

shouldistayorshouldigo.net/bonusmaterials.html
Bonus Materials

The items below called "Men's Chapter One" and "Men's Chapter Two" are materials that you can print out and give to your partner or ex-partner if he is showing signs of getting serious about working on his behavior and its underlying causes. These materials are appropriate for men who have been poor relationship partners due to addiction, immaturity (including fear of commitment to the relationship), infidelity, mental health problems/trauma, or abusiveness - or any combination of these.

These are modified versions of Chapters 9 and 11 from the book, rewritten to make them appropriate for the man to work with. We recommend that you print them out yourself and hand them to him rather than referring your partner to this website (or handing him the book, which we don't think is a good idea either); we think it's best if he has just the materials that are about his work, in hopes of keeping him focused on dealing with his own issues and not on analyzing yours.
? Chapter One: Your First Steps (.pdf)
? Chapter Two: Men's Work: What It's Really All About (.pdf)

But there is so much more to him than that, and it is worth at least trying to save.

The question is whether he thinks it's worth trying to save it or not, not you.

You can manage all you like but it won't work 24/7, and they it will be your "fault".

nang are you saying that twice a week you row bad enough for you to be reduced to tears?? Where are the dc when this goes on?

Twice a week rows which reduce you to tears? And he is deliberately driving you to this state? That is bloody awful. Bloody awful. What a bastard.

Honestly, this man sounds like a shit. I don't doubt that he genuinely has many wonderful qualities, but he is treating you (and, therefore, your kids) like shit, and that is not acceptable. You should not accept it for yourself, and you should not accept it as the model of relationships which your children are going to absorb.

If you continue to put up with this (and by trying to 'manage' his behaviour, that is exactly what you'll be doing), your children will have a higher likelihood of ending up in similarly distressing relationships; maybe even worse than yours. Also there will come a time when they see through him (just a few years away for your eldest) and may end up loathing him. And possibly loathing you (at the very least, you may well plummet in their estimation) for having allowed him to destroy the family in this way.

If you put your foot down - even by leaving temporarily and instructing him to sort his shit out - your eldest child will remember it, and it will be a lifelong lesson for both of them that they deserve genuine love and respect, not this twisted version which you are putting up with.

OP, I hope you're still around and that you're okay.

OP, You're so in the thick of it. Twice a week is 29% of your and your DC's lives. That is not ok!
I'm in a similar cycle and coming on here and posting on the emotional abuse board really helped. Like you, I was prepared to use the phrase emotional punch-bag but for some reason didn't see it as emotional abuse. Doesn't make sense really, does it?
Something that happened the other day really made me realise it HAS to change. I gingerly took my husband a cup of tea - he was being difficult and unpleasant as he often is. I suddenly had a flashback to me as a little girl seeing my Mum doing exactly the same thing. I realised that unless I deal with this, in 20/30/40 years time my beautiful, happy, confident little girl will be doing the same. I just can't have that. I'm still a long way from sorting it out but thoroughly recommend the emotional abuse thread. It opened my eyes and moved me on more than just real life could have.
Good luck and an un-mn hug.

Does he care enough about you to stop behaving in a way towards you in which he knows reduces you to tears? To stop being unkind? He is in control of you, simply because of the fact that you are trying to accommodate him. Is he going to take responsibility and work with you, as a partnership to solve these issues? Or is it all down to you? No, you don't have to lie down and be his 'whipping boy'. When you are faced with an emotionally manipulative person like he seems to be, there will be more arguments when you refuse to lie down and take it any more. It's a power struggle.

What I would like to know is, what is he really like on his 5 nice days a week?
Is he willing to discuss strategies to help him see what he is like on his 2 nasty days.
If he is genuinely sorry, and genuinely cares about you every day of the week, then perhaps he can suggest what he can do to help himself with the outbursts. Perhaps write things down on a piece of paper together, so when he loses it, you can show him the piece of paper that you made together, and it might stop him in his tracks?
Just a thought, hope it works out ok for all the family.

Hello everyone. Following your advice I told him that the arguments have to stop and I have been refusing to engage in the pattern. He has accepted that his behaviour has been unreasonable and while he is still not willing to go for counselling we have been away for the weekend (so 6 whole days together) with no arguments.

I won't say no cross words! but nothing like the arguments had been, and I can see him visibly preventing himself from going mental . There was a close call on Sunday when he told me that having no spare lightbulbs in the house was unacceptable but instead of apologising I just shrugged and said I'll get some tomorrow and I wasn't scared of the dark - he was shocked and walked out the room - and five minutes later he was back to apologise and say he knew that was unreasonable.

And no attempt to say '...but I only said that cos you.....' which was what he used to do.

So I am optimistic. The question has been asked what does he bring to the relationship? He makes me laugh so much, he makes me feel safe (i have NEVER been scared of him, or threatened by him in any way), he tries to work out what I want from life and enable it for me, he supports my decisions and is always on my side. Oh yeah and I love him totally, which is almost as much as he loves me.

that is good.
keep it up

dont engage etc.

like toddler taming.

it might work.

keep us posted.

Toddler taming

v true

Good for you, Geordie.

Make sure he keeps it up.

I wasted 22 years trying to manage my controlling h, to make my life better.

It didnt work.

He agreed at Relate counselling that he was controlling, and even offered that he 'had manipulated me for years'. Prior to that, he used to use the quote from your h, eg 'i only said that because, or it was because you etc etc'. However, he didnt get angry, just evasive and lying.

I never thought I would get him to Relate and he scoffed at counselling generally. But he did want to go when I was preparing to leave, and from day one said it was the best money he ever spent.

Not sure how old your h is, but I think it is VERY difficult for them to change long term, without enormous work.