Is it possible to 'manage' a controlling husband?

[NotANaturalGeordie]

A little history - DH was emotionally neglected by his mother and regularly beaten/humiliated by his (now dead) step-father. We have had no contact with his mother for about 5 years. We have been together 15 yrs, married for 10 and have two DD, ages 7 and 2.

DH has control issues. For example, I pre plan dinners for budget reasons, and when I swapped the meals around for convenience sake he lost his temper, we had a huge row and he wouldn't let it drop until I was in tears. This sort of thing didn't use to happen but DD1 is now at the age he was when his mother married his step-dad. He will deliberately pick a fight and brow beat me until I cry, then he can 'forgive' me. He usually apologises and accepts responsibility for the arguments at a later point, maybe an hour or two later.

I love him, he loves me. I am not considering leaving him, but I would like advice on coping with his behaviour. I do not want to cry any more but neither can I go on like this. He refuses point blank to consider counselling.

Any advice? Any one living with someone like this and how do you manage?

But surely a decent counsellor will see what we can all see, and will help the op to realise this and won't spend the sessions encouraging her to pussyfoot around his out bursts

Is it possible not to engage with the row? Or would that make things worse? Do you think he is pushing you to test if you are going to leave too, or is he effectively demanding attention?

Lundy "Why Does he Do That; Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men"

NANG, this is one of those threads isn't it ? You know something isn't right, but you are not yet ready to accept it. That is why you are still saying he is a good husband and father. of course he has good points, or you would never have married him. But a good husband and father doesn't treat the mother of his children like this. It really isn't normal and if you become Mrs Stepford to reduce the incidence of these ridiculous charades, you will lose yourself more and more

You aren't enabling his behaviour, you are doing what you think is right for your DD's. Believe me, there is a difference. But, you are allowing it to continue.

I wrote a similar thread once upon a time on a different forum. I was told to contact Women's Aid, and told to leave. My reaction was the same as yours... drastic, it's not that bad, whole picture etc.

Not doing anything though, is not an option I'm afraid. Not for you or your DD's.

Women's Aid are just amazing. Call them.

A decent counsellor would never advise a woman that she can "manage" her husband's bad behaviour

If one did, they should be struck off

Hello AF

I do think that he genuinely wants to change his behaviour. I have recently made clear to him that I can't continue like this. I do agree that I am a bit of an emotional punch bag for him, his job is v stressful and requires that he confront angry people all day - he refuses to discuss this with me but he has been assaulted, threatened with guns etc. However I do not agree that I am being abused as I think the term suggests too much intentional manipulation on his part when in fact he is over reacting to small annoyances and we then fall into a particular argument pattern.

Maybe my thread title is misleading - I want to learn better ways for me to cope with his behaviour that can change the pattern of our arguments - to give a better example for the DDs.

Does it need to be you who leaves? Is there no way he will move out for a month?

I really believe you will see so much more clearly the way forward if you just have some time and space.

What else can you do? You can either oppose his behaviour (thus the fights) or you can enable it (a life of emotional abuse for yourself). Or you can leave and leave him to it. And hope that spurs him on to seek help and change.

And it's a big jump to 'the DD's losing their father'. Hopefully, he will still see loads of them. Just an awful lot less of you.

Think through the practicalities of leaving. What are all your options?

I've lurked here a long time OP (5+ years) and I've never seen anyone 'manage' a relationship like this. I know they say love conquers all but really I'm not sure its enough, I'm sorry.

Your poor little girls

NANG, but why should you change your behaviour to appease him ? Can you see how that is the wrong approach ?

It isn't fair of him to take out his shitty day at work on you. You are not threatening him with guns etc

Does the kind of work he does offer any support for dealing with it's difficulties ?

"Abuse" is a big word, that is agreed. Saint Lundy would call what your husband is doing abusive and so would Women's Aid. Abuse is all not about getting a punch in the face. Have you used that word with him ?

For his own sake, is he getting any workplace counselling/occupational health/gp support, or at least decent team support?

I think if he starts that crappy stuff, maybe just say to him 'Are you dumping your work stress on me? When are you going to see the GP about that?'

I would never normally recommend medicalising your other half's emotions, but in this case he clearly needs a route to deal with that exceptional stress that does NOT involve dumping it on you, and you need a way to be very clear that you will not engage with that process.

"Maybe my thread title is misleading - I want to learn better ways for me to cope with his behaviour that can change the pattern of our arguments - to give a better example for the DDs."

I did this for years nang and the more I did this the more my exH knew he had me just where he wanted me, In the end I became unrecognisable in my resections to things trying to work out how to manage his temper better,

No matter how stressful his job is, you do not use someone you love as an emotional punchbag. Ever.

He intentionally makes you cry. He intentionally blames you. He intentionally promises he is sorry. Then he does it again. And again. And again.

Please call Women's Aid, and tell them what you said in your op.

I want to learn better ways for me to cope with his behaviour that can change the pattern of our arguments

If he changed his behaviour, this might not be necessary. Your example was that he became angry that you'd switched the order of some pre-planned meals around. He then went on in this irrational vein (because it is completely irrational) until you cried.

Solution: don't change any arrangement ever. Or do any of the other things that can trigger an outburst from him. Except it isn't you, it's him. Apparently he acknowledges this after the fact - I'm not convinced (as you can probably tell).

If we split we would have to sell the house. Without him I have no real reason to remain in the North East and I would move back to Hampshire - hence the DDs losing their Dad as he would stay here. I'm not worried about finances, he doesn't have a clue and I would make all the decisions!

I do know that if I left there would be no going back, no reconciliations and no change on his part - he would feel totally betrayed. I still think we have something worth saving and I know he doesn't want me to go.

If he cheated on me I would leave. If he hit me, or drank, or any number of things I would leave - I am not a door mat and I am his emotional punchbag at the moment because I allow it, I am fully aware of that.

I am not ready to quit. He is worth more than that, as am both I and our children.

My reactions*

In the scenario you're describing, your DDs would lose their dad because you would be deliberately depriving them of regular contact with him. In other words, you have to stay because otherwise you'd leave.

It's perceptive of you to see that he's re-enacting problems from his childhood. A lot of us do that, in some sort of weird effort to re-enact it and make it right this time. Ain't gonna happen, because the past is already fixed. But it might be worth mentioning this to him; he might get a breakthrough moment - though, if he does, it's unlikely to be immediate so don't hold your breath!

OK. No, you can't manage a control freak. Their need to control is unconscious & irrational. I'm going to make a suggestion, though. Look up Eric Berne and Transactional Analysis. It's about people following 'scripts' through life, and how seriously damaging those scripts can be.

I'm willing to bet "why did you do that darling, you know how it always upsets me" is a direct quote from his childhood. It is a dysfunctional remark in two ways - "Why did you ..." is aggressive when it's not an honest question (the only answer is "To upset you", which is clearly bollocks,) and "always" or "never" are dysfunctional because they're untrue. The intention is to corner you into defending a pointless lie, though such things are rarely said with conscious intent.

You, too, are following scripts. You said I think [an argument] should be a storm in a teacup 'oh you did this, oh you did that, get cross, apologise, all over'. There are many ways to argue. Your constantly trying to impose your argument script over his is just as dysfunctional. I'm going to ask you to change.

The only 100% reliable way to step out of a scripted 'game' is not to play. The pair of you are doing this ridiculous dance. When one of you goes to the bar or the loo, the other has to stop dancing - or at least do a different step. Start the easy way. When you say "We're having baked potatoes instead of chips" and he kicks off, agree with him. This would be passive agreement, or "Yes dear"

YOU DO NOT HAVE TO EXPLAIN WHY you changed the menu, moved the car or what-have-you. You're a grown-up. If he tantrums, let it blow over you. If DD gets anxious, ADDRESS HER ANXIETY NOT HIS BEHAVIOUR. If he carries on making a silly fuss, ask him mildly but firmly to "finish your tantrum in the other room."

Am I making any sense?

Hmmm. We're about,say a YEAR too soon for the OP to actually realise that it's not her, it's him; that he knows damned well what he's doing, is choosing to do this over and over again, getting worse and worse and worse as he tries to push the control more and more and more.

S'alright OP, we've all been there, it takes the time it takes for you to realise that there's only one way to cope, and that's to end it and get out. The sooner you realise, the sooner you and your DC will start to heal.

Your DH doesn't want to change, if he did, he's have done so already now wouldn't he? What's he waiting for?

He's broken and he could fix himself if he chose to - he's not choosing to. You cannot fix him.

I would remove yourself from his presense until he learns to treat you with respect, be that 2 hours or 2 years.

"No respect, no me!"

NANG, "I am not ready to quit. He is worth more than that, as am both I and our children.."

Call Women's Aid. Get help. You need it.

tribpot I am smiling at the thought of me not ever changing any arrangements ever!

I don't walk around on eggshells near him, that's one of the reasons the arguments have become more common! And yes, that example is true and is totally irrational bevhaviour on his part.

Hooker thank you for your comments, but unfortunately we all take our emotions out on each other despite our best intentions. I totally agree that we shouldn't!

I don't want to and will not tiptoe around him. This is his problem, not mine. But surely there is an alternative answer, somewhere between being a punchbag and leaving?

And yes, this is a yeartoo early. She needs to hit the rock bottom of relationships, which is "I've changed everything I can change and he still behaves badly, he acts like he hates me yet insists he loves me, I've started to change my behavior so I don't 'set him off' ... does this have to be my life forever? My children have started speaking to people like shit because that's what they hear at him, they emulate him and it makes them into a person their peers don't like, I have to get them away from his influence before he ruins them..."

NoANatural - the thing is, if he will not change his behavior, then you have to either accept it (be the verbal punchbag) or leave. You cannot FORCE someone to change. You can threaten all, but if they really don't care about you enough to make some changes in the way they treat you, you have to leave them or be treated like shit. Your choice, it's the only one you get. He's already made his choice of "I don't like talking to stangers so I'm going to carry on being a twat, and YOU, Woman, are going to continue to eat my shit."

YOu are tolerating it just by beingt there. YOu don't have to lapping it up with a smile on your face - you haven't ended the relationship, ergo you are telling him that it's acceptable to behave in that way towards you.

When I was in an abusive relationship I got into the trap of thinking if only I could behave perfectly, defuse all the grenades he tossed in my direction etc, we would be happy. I was deluded and it's no way to live. You can't manage this sort of behaviour because he'll keep going until he gets what he wants - you broken and crying.

Garlicbutter Thank you for your comments, you seem to understand the questions I'm asking.

I will look up Eric Berne and Transactional Analysis, and I agree that it is time to change the scripts. I am concerned that it may get worse before it gets better but I think you are right, it is time to discuss our argument patterns in detail. I look forward to the lightbulb moment!

I do appreciate the desire of other MumsNetters to rescue me and I am grateful for their concern. However I fervently hope that I am right and they are wrong .

I will set a time limit to this - if things have not improved within 6 months I will suggest a trial separation.