Long time lurker in need

[Pralines]

Hi all,

here's the problem.

I've been with my now husband for 8 years, married almost 2. early 30s. Trying for a baby.

My husband is my world. We have a loving relationship, and generally we are happy.

BUT...

When I met my DH... let's say he was in a bad place - I don't really want to go into that, but he had had experienced mental health issues had no support and was floating. He was ashamed of this and there was a lot I didn't find out until a while later.

The immediate issue is that last year I found out he had a credit card balance for a year he reassured he he didn't owe a penny. Now, we were supposed to be paying off all our debt to try to save to be able to move. This all came out in November huge meltdown tears the lot and I sorted it by balance transferring and sorting a budget. We dont live hand-to-mouth our credit card debt (I have a car loan and a mortgage) is less than 16% of our annual income but I am cautious of redundancy in this climate and we really do not need to be in debt considering how much we earn.

So I have access to his bank accounts. And I looked today. And I have found a balance on the card that we balance transferred.

I am so fucked off. I have had a bad day at work, I'm unfertilised after 18 months of trying (not a problem for me as such at present) and I have told him not to bother coming home as this isn't the first time he has run up a balance and I am just sick of it.

There is a lot more, I do not want to drip feed but I guess you wont want an essay. Please feel free to ask questions.

And thank you in advance.

Whoops - question - How do I deal with this? I've done the tears, the shouting. The 'what else do you lie about', I envision myself in 40 years time in a bedsit looking at him wondering why did I stay with a spendthrift liar.

He was so ashamed he did the same thing all over again. Ok. That isn't the behaviour of a person who has this under control. It is the behaviour of someone that will do it time and time again until you call time

you don't have to name check individuals, btw

just talk away

I'm not a walking bank account for him.

AnyFucker - that is why I am so angry tonight. Last time I fucking TOLD him that he had to get this shit sorted because I was tired of it. I went mental. Yet he has done it again. I am not in floods of tears or anything (although I squeezed one out earlier). It's why I am here. How DARE he do this to me. To himself and to US. It's so frustrating.

I am also concerned that I sent a text which is not my style at all (I did call first said my piece and hung up) telling him not to bother come home (not my style at all - I mean really?!? It'll be a fight on the doorstep next) and he hasn't bloody responded. Bastard.

He is a grown man acting like, well a child. I just don't understand it. Bogeyface's point re childhood rang home though - as a reason behind these shenanigan's.

I'll be printing this off to show him. I am so disappointed in him. But I need to stop supporting him and be selfish. I am not joining his face to bankruptcy.

you know - it's the underlying issues that piss me off. Am I with a man or a child? When his finger hoovered over the buy button he really didn't think of the pain he is causing this relationship did he? I have explained that if he is skint WE are skint because we are in this together.

It just seems so wrong to split over money. But I cannot do this any more. We cannot go on like this. i am not racing to the bottom with anyone. I'm probably capable of doing it on my own.

"It just seems so wrong to split over money."

People always say that about housework too.

But basically a marriage comes down to shared finances, shared responsibilities, and shared domestic work.

There are lots of other nice things too, but if you don't have those basics right the rest of it will be a nightmare.

Splitting from someone who is going to ruin you financially is sensible, particularly if you do it before having any children.

Yes, I know.

You mentioned shame and remorse, could you sign post him towardsDebtors Anonymous?

Dare I ask - what would you do?

Don't get me wrong he has tried hard. (and I am not excusing him... I think). He had a real tough time before we met. I have given him my all regarding support. I have been supportive for years. He supports me when I need it and I have needed it. But this situation has got to stop. It has to end. I refuse to race to the bottom and I refuse to bring a child up in poverty (as in poverty where it is created not enforced). I need to be able to rely on this man and I cannot. If I cannot rely on him financially what else can I not rely on him for.

He is being selfish. He can rely on me to support him, to help him and to be there. I can rely on him to betray me financially. But I like this relationship.

Does anyone recommend relate? does it help? He was on the waiting list for CBT therapy a few years back (I cannot remember what triggered that) and nothing came through. It's time to cough up? Or do you think it's pointless?

What would I do ?

I would insist he sought help. Individual counselling or support groups for compulsive overspending like Debtors Anonymous. His first port of call would be the GP for a full and frank confession.

I would insist he told me the truth about where the spending goes, because I do not believe you know the full truth

I wouldn't attend joint counselling eg Relate as your relationship is not the problem, it is his problem.

I would stop excusing his selfish behaviour on the grounds of him having a rough upbringing (hello!, yes many of us have but we don't drag others down with us)

I would consider asking him to leave, until those things are in place. I would put a time scale on it.

If he was successful in beating his demons, I would not ttc until he had been "clean" for at least a year.

Mostly though ? I would think very, very carefully and dispassionately if one man was worth this. Personally, I don't think so, but I don't know him.

I would have to put a time limit on myself most of all, where I made myself aware of how much time is passing me by. Time where I could have met someone else without so much baggage, and started a family free of mistrust and all-consuming worry about the future.

Cynical ? Cruel ? Self-serving ? Maybe, but we get one life and we should live it on our own terms, not within the enforced confines of somebody's else's issues.

That is my opinion.

i hope he'll cough up some of his 600 pound p/m for therapy?? don't pay for it yourself!

therapy is a great tool btw.
but i will say this: he knows this is a problem, he knows it upsets you, he knows it's even morally wrong not just something you don't like... and yet he has not taken himself off to therapy...?

that isn't a good sign. someone who wants to change is desperate for it and looks for ways to do so on their own steam iyswim. as long as you're caring for him/taking control of his problems for him, nothing is going to change. he needs to man up of his own accord

A friend of mine once told me far more marriages split over money than adultery. You can try, but does he want to? Or will you be making the decision again?

If he does not get this under control, and you have a baby, he will spend his entire life on ebay and amazon looking for bargains to buy for the baby/child/teen. There will be no stopping him getting a few hundred bibs, toys, designer second hand jeans, and what not.

If you have a spending addiction, you dont necessarily spend it on yourself, you spend it on others, so the expense is justified as doing a good thing for somebody....

Hmm the wet fish slap has just made me cry. Esp anyfucker. That sounds like an active plan of action.

Thank you for the last few posts. (Incidentally - he doesn't and has never blamed his upbringing on anything. That's all me.)

He will pay for it don't worry! He wouldn't even ask me for it (probably put it on a credit card lmao at the irony (and I am just kidding)).

Mummytime - your friend is correct. As a lover of stats I have bought this up many a time.

He is on his way home from work now. Didn't see my messages - called to ask if he could come home. We will discuss it. I will show and make him read all of this (waves at husband - you made it to the end!) then we will talk. In fact we will not talk - he will talk to me. As he knows exactly how I feel and think about this and I am sure the cat doesn't want to hear it again.

Thank you all so much for your time. I will feedback. regardless of what happens.

Re is one man worth this - he was. Hence why I am still here. I love him, but going forward I have to ask myself the same for I am sacrificing my own financial future for another. Won't do me any favours at all.

< gives pralines a little cuddle >

Facing this kinda stuff is very, very hard to do. Much easier to stick one's head in the sand and hope for the best. I sense you are past that point now, though.

All the best, please do come back and tell us how you get on. x

You will get more replies, I think, the night is yet young. You haven't had a respondent who has dealt with this directly yet.

Actually I didn't. But thank you. I'm not sure if I want more replies... there's only so long that you can look in the mirror. If that is an appropriate analogy.

The thing that scares me the most is my calmness, I explained this last year. I am scared of me when I am calm because I KNOW that there is only so much I can take and I have a nasty habit of taking a lot of shit from people then cutting them out later with no come back when it gets to much for me. And I do not want this for this marriage as there will not be any coming back whatsoever.

And I know full well he doesn't want that. And (after all is said and done) a beautiful thing would be lost because I have been pushed too far.

Now... where's the rum.

BTW - I apologise for the grammar/spelling. I haven't really reviewed my posts before I post.

< surrepticiously checks shoulder for greenies >

I am scared of me when I am calm because I KNOW that there is only so much I can take and I have a nasty habit of taking a lot of shit from people then cutting them out later with no come back when it gets too much for me

I can absolutely relate to your statement above, honey, although I regard it is a postiive force for self-preservation habit rather than a 'nasty' one.

Once they've overstepped my carefully drawn line, the safety curtain goes down - they're history and I rarely bother to visit my past.

If only the silly sod knew what a priceless gem he's got in you and realised what you're capable of, he wouldn't dare mess...

Give him hell, and have no compuncton about giving him the order of the boot if he merits it.

Hi all,

I thought I'd give a mini update (I am going to diarise an update for 6 months).

So he came in last night and I made him read this. It was then referred to in the 6 hours that we spent talking yesterday (til 4am - I got pissed and am hungover today ). It was painful reading for him. But he did say that an outsiders point of view made it shocking/real.

In a nutshell, we discussed his feelings of inadequacy where this relationship is involved, his feelings of low self-worth/esteem, how he felt when buying that stuff - apparently it didn't feel good because he was thinking about what we went through 6 months ago, issues regarding work and how that relates to the low feeling (I was already aware of the issues they are not related to him but he is affected by them).

We discussed (or I should say in this he discussed and tried to make me understand I really tried to keep schtum as I am a prolific talker and he takes a bit more time to express himself) how he felt he had to 'buy' me (wtf - I was outraged by this - holds up feminist flag. I am not that shallow a person at all) at times to even up the so called inequality of who is better than who.

We have been through a lot of these issues in the past - I did say he had had a hard time before he met me and I have gone through depression, low confidence etc, etc and dragged myself out of it years back before husband, so I have a level of understanding and always have had. BUT - I think I haven't listened enough when he has said in the past he needs counselling. I am a bit ashamed of me for that actually.

Anyway, HE decided that he is going to speak to a counsellor. These issues and feelings spread into his all - AF is right it isn't and never was about me HE recognises that he needs more... bollocks in his world and he is going to search for them. We discussed self-destructing and not being able to accept happiness and enjoy it because of feeling undeserving of it. My heart breaks to know that at times he is not allowing himself to enjoy his life - and I mean his life not our relationship.

I woke up this morning to hear him booking a docs app (2 backside weeks he has to wait). He is starting an evening course anyway so he has places to put his energy.

Me -

I said he may want to use my log-in to write a response to this. I got a look back of sheer and unadulterated horror and scepticism. But I explained that I am sure that you would generally be honest and supportive. We decided that i would write a response of what took place last night to get support instead.

I am hoping that you will not all respond with a kind of 'that's what they all say...' but I need outsiders perspective. I needed to read the painful things I read last night as I believe I have buried my head in the sand a little for years.

What am I going to do? - nothing, jack shit, nada. I've done my bit over the years. I will be supportive, I will come where needed. But I am done masking these issues up. It isn't about me.

classic line he used: 'I need to help you to help me'. So true. My husband thinks that I never need help or assistance because I am wonderful and cope with everything. I had to remind him of the times that I came in ranting and raving, bawling and snotty (you get the picture), and how he helped me, and supported me and believed in me and bitch-slapped me away from self-pity and into reality when I needed it. That he helps me because 'I fucking tell you wants wrong dammit!'

He said he needs to do the same, needs to trust me that i always have his back. Anyway, loads came out last night - most of it not a surprise but some real moments of realisation for the two of us. When he said I can always rely on him I was brutally honest. And it shocked him really. Also, he appears to have really not understood that my meltdowns (as in wailing because I've too much to do etc - my terminology may be a little dramatic for this thread) ARE the same as his down feelings. I just express them better... and loudly .

Anyway, I have written this for feedback and for a lasting record of this so that i can look back at what was said, promises made and actions to be done.

This isn't going to change over-night and I will give it all sometime. But time is not infinitive any more for me. Because I cannot go on with these issues.

Thanks all.

sits back and waits for wet fish

No, this is hopeful, you both talked, you both listened, and he is doing something to get help for himself. :)

You did well :)

Now wait and see how things go.

Hate to be voice of gloom and doom, but though he may 'improve' for a while, imo opinion he will never change permanently into the financially responsible grown-up life-partner and potential father that you need him to be.

Stop trying to conceive with him immediately. Also, separate all your finances. Definitely cancel any joint accounts. he should have his own account. If you still tjhink he should have that 600 to spend, then it goes into his account, and when it's run out he has no more.

Please get rid of any joint savings accounts and cancel joint credit or debit cards.

he should manage his own monies from now on.

Who's name is the mortgage in? is it in joint names? What sort of a credit rating does he have?

This sounds rather ominous to me. My exH was terrible with money and pissed all mine up the wall. Hot tears and shouting from me, tears and wrigning of hands from him..

When I had a baby and was unable to support him in the life to which he had become accustomed I very quickly lost my lustre for him.

Split your finances.

prepare yourself to split from this leech before you have a child together.

Also, as marrieds, you are jointly responsible for any bad debt. So if he runs up a shit load of debt, it directly affects yourt credit rating.
Which means that if you split and you need to get a mortgage/loan on your own, your credit record will also be fucked.

Sign up to CreditExpert and check out your credit rating for a fiver. Worth every penny.

That you all.

You pose very good points UA. And I'll answer them:

1. Our finances are fairly separate. Not because of this spending issue - I just don't believe in relying on anyone financially in that way and am a bit of a control freak when it comes to my financial well being.
2. Baby - this is a bit of a side issue in the sense that we haven't managed to conceive and I am not about to put myself in a position where I am left holding the baby!
3. He never really asks me for money. I am not a walking cash machine - it doesn't work that way. It has concerned me actually that the latest bit of expenditure on that card was done when he had funds to cover it in his current account. Makes me really think that it is a deeper issue. But I do not want to lay too much importance onto that and get led into a sense of false security and emotional blackmail as so to speak. (as in 'it's not me, it's my ABC issue). I am not clutching at straws.
4. His credit rating is fine, mine is fine. remember this debt is 16% of our annual earnings and we have savings (in my name only at present due to how I opened the account to get a good interest rate) that would pay off the majority tomorrow.
5. Mortgage and house is mine. I was in the process of buying when we met.
6. He is not a leech. As I said, some of the money was spent on me, this isn't about relying on me to support his lifestyle. And I KNOW that if we were skint he would deal with it better than me.
7. Married couples are not responsible for each others debt any more. You can disassociate yourself financially. While we have a joint savings account, it is the only joint finance that we have. I have not taken any of his debt. It was re-transferred within his name.

I think I have covered everything there, and I really do appreciate your points as they are valid. BUT - I think the issue is slightly different in the sense that it is not about the money per se, it is deeper than that. Much of what everyone has said is correct with regards to how I have previously dealt with the issues and what the issues actually are. Does that make sense?

What you went through sounds awful. And I am not saying that this situation is completely different. If no one else agrees with me and my 'justifications' above then I'll reconsider that point.

I will not and have not put up with this, as I said earlier - it is serious, but it is not my issue to solve. When I made my vows I meant them (bar the poorer bit ) and as he is seemingly facing up to it I am prepared to give this a SMART approach.

Point 6 - when I say deal with it better if we were skint, I mean that he would accept it and do without much more easily than I would. I guess I am certain of this as I have seen him do it before. A few years ago admittedly... Maybe I need to reconsider that point. As I have said earlier - it is the access to money. If it is there it has to go.

I probably haven't made it clear but I get more than half of his salary each month which is more than half of the bills. He has gone without in the past to help me pay stuff off/buy stuff. And has done this at times without resorting to running up more debt.

Hmm... Actually maybe I am justifying. Or are those arrangements valid?