Is there a kinder way of leaving someone?

[desperategit]

I expect - and deserve - all sorts of flack for posting this here. But I am a man trying to understand the least harmful way of leaving a sexless and loveless marriage. I know it is cruel and it will hurt. And I will take 90% of the blame. But I really would value women's perspectives.

Over 20 years married, DCs aged 17 and 11. Never much sex right from the start, but down to perhaps once a month even before kids. Perhaps 4 times a year since. I always turned down opportunities offered to stray until 2 years ago, then a rather unsatisfactory one night stand, which a year later became an affair which I ended when my wife discovered it. After that a month or so of intimacy and then nothing. And now I am in another affair, and I have to face that I have to leave my marriage.

My wife has a very low libido, sex for her is not iimportant, she has refused to go to counselling, to discuss the issue, to consider toys, books, or really to discuss the issue at all. She just wants to forget that I had an affair, not talk about us, continue a comfortable unchanged life as we drift apart. I can't do that. We get one life.

So - I need to leave my wife, and when I tell her this she will immediately think there is an OW. So I can't say it is just because I need some space. I do need to move on but I genuinely don't want to tear her apart. I know this makes me a hypocrite.

I just wonder what the least worst way of doing it is.

Thanks for your reply Shagmund. I suspect your assertion that women 'go off' sex more than men might be challenged here, but we shall see.

I wonder if couples should be educated, or at least encouraged to talk about this, before they start to live together? I wonder, if your husband had been told before you got married that you had a low libido, whether he might have said 'thanks, but no thanks!' ? And would this be fair, or the right thing to do? Is it possible that some people feel that there is an unspoken agreement that sex will always be on the agenda within marriage? The fact that it isn't mentioned, articulated or discussed beforehand seems like a massive oversight, given the problems that it leads to.

I would feel very depressed if my partner did not want to have sex with me. How ever many cuddles and strokes I got, I would feel sexually rejected.

Given that as a grown adult in a monogomous relationship or marriage, the only person I can have sex with is my partner / husband, if I was not wanted sexually long-term that would really, really hurt me.

I understand that libidos come & go, that different priorities in our lives mean that we are not always up for it, but I think a long-term sexual rejection or disinterest is very difficult to cope with.

Still not saying it justifies an affair - as someone rightly pointed out, one door should be closed before the other is opened.

There are lots of threads all over the internet from women whose male partners aren't motivated by sex, so this is not a 'female' issue.

But the responses of men and women to the lack of sex in a relationship tend to be different, only because of the relentless pressure in society to believe that men and women have 'different' sexual appetites purely because of their gender.

So we are socialised to believe that men should always be up for sex, can't live without it and will go elsewhere if it is not available in their sanctioned relationship. And women partnered with men who don't fit this stereotype feel frustrated (which is normal) but also tend to feel ashamed of their healthy sexual appetites and 'less of a woman' (which is a societal construct). This horrible construct causes problems for men and women because it can be really difficult for a man to admit he's not particularly motivated by sex and for women not to take it as a personal affront to her 'womanhood'.

Conversely, we are socialised to believe that women need to feel loved and adored in order to have sex with a man, can easily live without it and will only go elsewhere for it if she's no longer feeling loved by her partner and is in love with the man with whom she's 'getting it elsewhere'. Societally, because there is an expectation and belief that women don't enjoy sex as much as men and will only do it if the conditions are 'right', it is more acceptable for women to 'go off' sex. That construct also causes problems for women and men because it can be really difficult for a woman to admit that she is motivated by sex itself and that she does enjoy it for its own sake, but that she doesn't enjoy it with her sanctioned partner for a variety of reasons.

This is what I think happens a lot in these stories of men and women who have 'never' wanted sex. It is very different to your situation Shagmund where there is a sudden or temporary loss of desire. I think this happens to men and women in relationships, but it's still more socially acceptable for women to admit to than men, hence the flawed research that you mention - and which merely serves to prop up these constraining stereotypes.

And OW and OM trade on these steotypes for all they are worth. The married OW will pretend to be a sex kitten who is only having an affair because she is in a 'loveless' marriage, or is married to a man who 'isn't normal and won't have sex'. She delights in bucking the stereotype and is anxious to prove her 'sex credentials'. The married OM will pretend to be the caring, romantic rescuer who wouldn't be having an affair if his wife made him feel loved and wasn't obsessed with children and home-making. He delights in bucking the stereotype of a man who is only after sex and is anxious to prove his 'caring man' credentials.

Why neither of them wonder whether their own behaviour in their marriages, or their own character and personality faults as individuals has led to an affair, is a mystery.....

"I suspect your assertion that women 'go off' sex more than men might be challenged here, but we shall see."

My assertion that women experience more loss of desire comes from my reading of the research, and not judging the situation just on my own feelings and experience.

"I wonder, if your husband had been told before you got married that you had a low libido, whether he might have said 'thanks, but no thanks!'"

I'd suggest that most women in situation experience a LOSS of desire, and that they don't start out with a low libido. I certainly didn't. But then physically and hormonally I was a different person 20 years ago. I could stay up all night, liked clubbing, I weighed 3 stone less than I do now and my periods came every 28 days instead of every 21.

I feel very strongly that the physical changes you go through during the normal process of ageing sometimes really impact on your libido. I know it doesn't for everyone, but it has for me. I am MASSIVELY more tired - emotionally and physically, than I was in my 20's when my husband and I met. And it can't be helped. I have three children, two of whom are very challenging. I work. I run a home. My hormone levels are fluctuating as I come to the end of my reproductive life. I'm sure all these things impact on my ability to feel sexual as well as my feelings about my own body, which is not as desirable as it was.

"but I think a long-term sexual rejection or disinterest is very difficult to cope with"

Yes - I agree. I think it's also difficult to deal with unemployment, depression, and physical illness, also with problems with family. But these are not seen as clear and unequivocal reasons to bail out of a relationship, if there is still love, friendship, respect and loyalty there.

Of course Shagmund, all the things you describe a difficult - but somehow the rejection of a person sexually, by the only other person they can have sex with (if they are to remain monogamous) somehow seems more fundamental to the relationship between a couple. All the other things are to some degree (apart from depression) external & happen to the couple, whereas sex happens between a couple.

No OP for a while, I wonder if he's told his wife

I didn't mean to suggest that it was in any way excusable to seek sex elsewhere, well, not in the context of an affair at least.

I would think it understandable though rather sad for a person of either gender to leave a relationship because there was no sexual intimacy. But not to do it in a deceitful manner, ever.

You've got to be respectful and that means honest. Without honesty there can't be mutual respect, there just can't. In order to deceive you have to tell yourself that the person you're deceiving is stupid - either by not noticing the lie, or by trusting someone like you.

It's really horrible. I always say to DP that if he wants to be with someone else, it's Ok, as long as he tells me. Being lied to is unacceptable, but your feelings changing is probably beyond most of your control and I couldn't be angry at someone falling out of love with me.

And I've promised him the same, that if I find someone I prefer one day I will not sneak around, I will tell him. Affairs are a pointless and destructive game that benefit absolutely no one.

I've just wondered whether his wife is on here and he posted this so that she would read it and read other people's opinions of her.

You are saying that a lack of sex creates a 'vacuum' - ie a state of nothingness?
shagmundfreud I am not sure it creates a state of nothingness. I think what I mean is that those things need to be nurtured and constantly topped up and (for me) a lack of sex means that love and intimacy are weakened and eventually disappear or change to the characteristic of a brother/sister relationship rather than a husband/wife one. Needing to have sex in one's life does not mean you don't respect someone greatly or love them for who they are or cherish your shared history. I do see your argument, I really do, but I see both sides of the argument. I think the answer is that couples have to really communicate with each other about this throughout, honestly and respectfully and to both respect the others' point of view. It's not OK to just dismiss a spouse's need for sex as unimportant (in comparison to everything else) - it really can be very wounding and damaging to people to live without it and that doesn't make them wrong or bad. If there is love and friendship and loyalty then a couple should be able to communicate lovingly and honestly about the issue and reach a resolution that both parties can live with. From my own experience, it is not the lack of sex that is the real problem, it's the lack of addressing the issue that is.

I don't know anything about your situation. You say your DH still wants sex and you don't and that you see the 'writing is on the wall' - I'd say that is only true if you are not talking to him about it and don't acknowledge his feelings about it as just as valid as yours. I don't think it's as simple as 'horny men' bugger off with people who will still 'put out' for sex. People (men and women) leave after years and years of being unhappy about it and not being listened to or their feelings on the matter cared about.

ImperialBlether Sat 10-Mar-12 08:59:19
I've just wondered whether his wife is on here and he posted this so that she would read it and read other people's opinions of her.

Oh what a horrible thought

Been away. And no - my wife is not on here, and I haven't told her yet.
I really value the opinions people have given here. They will help me. Thanks.