Is there a kinder way of leaving someone?

[desperategit]

I expect - and deserve - all sorts of flack for posting this here. But I am a man trying to understand the least harmful way of leaving a sexless and loveless marriage. I know it is cruel and it will hurt. And I will take 90% of the blame. But I really would value women's perspectives.

Over 20 years married, DCs aged 17 and 11. Never much sex right from the start, but down to perhaps once a month even before kids. Perhaps 4 times a year since. I always turned down opportunities offered to stray until 2 years ago, then a rather unsatisfactory one night stand, which a year later became an affair which I ended when my wife discovered it. After that a month or so of intimacy and then nothing. And now I am in another affair, and I have to face that I have to leave my marriage.

My wife has a very low libido, sex for her is not iimportant, she has refused to go to counselling, to discuss the issue, to consider toys, books, or really to discuss the issue at all. She just wants to forget that I had an affair, not talk about us, continue a comfortable unchanged life as we drift apart. I can't do that. We get one life.

So - I need to leave my wife, and when I tell her this she will immediately think there is an OW. So I can't say it is just because I need some space. I do need to move on but I genuinely don't want to tear her apart. I know this makes me a hypocrite.

I just wonder what the least worst way of doing it is.

Just tell her the truth: you no longer love her because she won't have sex with you and you need to leave so you can have sex with someone else.

She'll be devastated, as will your children. But your sexual fulfilment is more important to you than their feelings or the family life you've shared together.

I recon you'd be surprised about what she probably already knows anyway. Let's face it, it sounds as if she went off that side of things with "you" a long time ago and probably knew you were going to play away eventually.

Should add - I responded sniffily because your OP has needled me. I rarely have sex with my DH, despite the fact he wants to. I love him, fancy him, am affectionate with him, respect him. I just don't want to have sex. I don't know why but it might have something to do with being knackered, hypothyroid and often very stressed caring for our three children, one of whom is a very difficult pre-teen, and one who's got ASD and ADHD.

I wonder if he'll leave me because our sex life is so sporadic. It seems these days that one partner not getting enough sex is considered a perfectly reasonable rationale for blowing a family apart, even when there is still friendship, deep love and intimacy in the relationship.

Do you know what, you can be having regular sex & your other half can still have an affair. Having an affair is usually about way more than just sex.

Yes, usually selfishness, a sense of entitlement, an enormous ego, the need to secretly punish, an unwillingness to be honest about one's actions, a lack of responsibility for the consequences until it suits and very often, an unwillingness to be on one's own.

..... or possibly that you simply fall in love with someone else. I'm not saying it is right. Clearly having been on the receiving end of some decidedly poor behaviour from my ex-H, I know what it is like to have my marriage end. However, it didn't end because of the affair - that was the catalyst - but it ended because my ex-H had fallen out of love with me & in love with someone else. Digging deep, I had also fallen very much out of love with him too. Whether that was a temporary condition due to 2 small children - we will never know. I always thought we would weather the storm & move on together - but that was not to be.
Marriages end. The OP knows he has been dishonourable & now he is trying to do the right thing. It doesn't sound to me like there is any point in staying in his soulless marriage - so now it should all be about managing the break up as well as he can.

"It doesn't sound to me like there is any point in staying in his soulless marriage"

The OP hasn't said that there is no friendship, love, loyalty or affection in his relationship with his wife.

Only that there is no sex.

Which as far as he's concerned means there's nothing worth staying for, despite their 20 years of marriage, their family life and the children they share.

No, but he did say this:
"she has refused to go to counselling, to discuss the issue, to consider toys, books, or really to discuss the issue at all. She just wants to forget that I had an affair, not talk about us, continue a comfortable unchanged life as we drift apart."
That doesn't sound like a relationship full of friendship, love, loyalty & affection.

For me personally sex "is" an important part of a relationship.

The OP's first affair only ended because he got found out. He made an active choice to stay in his marriage and I'd wager that those reasons were selfish ones. Either he'd decided the first OW wasn't worthy of leaving his marriage for, she wasn't in it for the long haul or she was in a relationship she didn't want to leave.

If the OP had really wanted to save his marriage after that first affair he would have told his wife he was tempted again as soon as he met the next OW. But he didn't did he? He chose not to tell his wife that their marriage was yet again in grave danger of his infidelity. Instead of the first affair being the catalyst for him sorting himself out and finding out why he chose infidelity instead of a more honest response to marital difficulty, he seethed because his presumably very hurt wife didn't learn her lesson and start having sex with him to prevent him from straying again.

He set her up to fail here. If you want more sex in your relationship, pretty much the worst way of going about it is to have a secret affair and provide your wife with images that probably still haunt her everytime she gets into bed.

The OP isn't being 'honourable' at all. He's ending his marriage because he's got someone to go to, at a time that suits him. The honourable thing would have been to leave long before now and take his chances on his own.

What ever you decide to tell your wife OP, she will undoubtedly have more sense than to believe anything other than the truth. She'll kick herself no doubt for giving you a second chance and will watch from a distance to see how two people who've cheated on their partners can remain faithful to eachother......

I agree with shagmundfreud

Someone wise once told me...

Sex is a huge issue in an unhappy relationship, yet it is not an issue at all in a good one

If you were in a good relationship where the sex was not happening as you wish, you'd understand and accept that the partner you love and respect doesn't feel it at that moment. You learn to be patient and understanding because you love them and sex is only a small part of being with your soulmate. Likewise, in a good relationship also, its great when you do have sex as your in tune with each other and trust each other to try thing that work for you.

If you were in a bad relationship, every little detail of sex becomes an issue because the trust, patience and respect is not there.

OP stating you are leaving your wife because you are in a sexless marriage is imo not justified. In actual fact, you are leaving your wife because you've betrayed her by having another affair. Be prepared to fall head over heels for this new woman and I hope you hurt as much as your wife will hurt when this new woman cheats on you.

I suppose, thinking about it, if you really love someone and you can't make them sleep with you, and they are the real person you want to be having sex with but they won't, then someone else as an affair might be a way to try and get them to do what you need, in a horrid sort of way...like the 'notice me' affair.

And then to just give up in a despondent manner and do it with yet another person, well you sound like you're still sad it isn't your wife, and you would really prefer it to be her - maybe this is why you've not left already and reading between the lines, don't really want to.

But it's not working is it, you know that.

shagmundfreud But lack of sex in a marriage can cause a slow death of love, intimacy and friendship. Those things don't survive and grow in a vacuum. Lack of addressing a partner's unhappiness about lack of sex absolutely will kill love and friendship.

Hang on a minute. I can only talk for me here.

You should of course always close one door before opening another.

I would however rather expect a long term partner to eventually go and get it elsewhere if I hadn't made an attempt to compromise/we didn't agree to a sexless marriage.

It's rather inevitable.

There are also women that stay in something comfortable for as long as possible knowing full well this will be the case.

x posts with some interesting thoughts, it's all really interesting actually.

'OP stating you are leaving your wife because you are in a sexless marriage is imo not justified.'

I wonder about this. I think often for a man (just saying a man for this instance, I don't mean it isn't the same for a woman) sex means something really important - it isn't just getting your rocks off and having an orgasm, feeling excited, scoring with an attractive woman.

It's actually really about acceptance. It's a signal that the woman accepts them, and respects them and will take them as they are; it's about being loved by a woman and seen as a worthy sort of bloke, it's about being loved for who they are in the basest sense.

So for instance I could refuse to sleep with DP tonight, and he wouldn't care about not being 'satisfied' physically, not at all but he would be really ocncerned that he just wasn't loved any more; that he wasn't someone I could fancy, or trust with my body, my feelings etc. He would feel useless and horrible and his self esteem would plummet.

He's more than capable of having a wank if he wants to get off, but that's nothing to do with sex with someone who loves you. It's almost entirely separate.

So when you look at it like that, mean being obsessed with sex isn't about the physical rush they get, it's about wanting to be validated as a man, as a person, being shown and in some cases showing the world that they are worthy of this woman's love.

Sorry if that comes across as bullshit. It's what I think I believe at the moment, anyway. And it isn't an excuse for an affair in any respect.

'So for instance I could refuse to sleep with DP tonight, and he wouldn't care about not being 'satisfied' physically, not at all but he would be really concerned that he just wasn't loved any more; that he wasn't someone I could fancy, or trust with my body, my feelings etc. He would feel useless and horrible and his self esteem would plummet.'

Sorry, that sounds a bit extreme, clearly if I had a strong reason for refusing we'd talk it over, etc etc and I don't feel I have to sleep with him, if I don't feel like it and so on but you get the drift I hope - If I didn't want to sleep with him for a really long time, he might feel very unhappy without that physical reassurance that I loved him.

And I don't mean women ought to provide this as a matter of duty. I just mean it's really important to some men, maybe there are ways round it, I don't know...to be validated and reassured in other ways? Maybe she does this and it isn't enough for him. Which is really sad.

Perhaps the fault lies in him for needing this reassurance. Maybe he does just need the physical release, It's hard to tell without knowing the OP.

"If you want more sex in your relationship, pretty much the worst way of going about it is to have a secret affair and provide your wife with images that probably still haunt her everytime she gets into bed."

Just wanted to say excellent point well put, Hattytown.

I suppose you are right, BettyPerske.

The problem, I suppose is when the man is really not worthy of the woman's love. Even if she does love him.

In the OP's case, it seems all about sex, not the relationship itself. Although men can sometimes talk in riddles, as sex being a reflection of the relationship, I guess.

He doesn't even seem to love the OW.

Ditto, Wrongbow. He's got it so, so wrong hasn't he.

Lueji - yes. But apparently she wants to stay with him, which wouldn't make sense if he isn't worthy of sex.

Maybe.

Turning it around, if DP wasn't willing to have sex with me but was kind and accepting and affectionate in other ways, I would seriously wonder why we couldn't have sex.

maybe for some people sex isn't a natural expression of their love. I always want to do it with someone I love, unless I'm doubting their love for me, which really puts a spanner in the works.

I can't imagine not wanting to have sex, unless something else was very wrong.

"shagmundfreud But lack of sex in a marriage can cause a slow death of love, intimacy and friendship. Those things don't survive and grow in a vacuum."

Even when there is still physical affection, respect, intimacy, friendship and laughter? You are saying that a lack of sex creates a 'vacuum' - ie a state of nothingness? Those things grow alongside sex in a long marriage; not from it. You respect someone for the person they are, you love them for who they are and for the things you share - many things, not just sex. And not just what they can do for you.

I suppose that's why we have such a high rate of family breakdown these days. Because loss of sexual desire is very, very common, particularly in older women. So common that I don't think you can see is as something inherently pathological. And if the bottom line is that sex is accepted as the lynch pin of a marriage, more important than loyalty, shared values, friendship, affection and love - well, it justifies horny men buggering off and leaving their menopausal wife for someone who'll still put out for them.

Makes me feel like the writing's on the wall for me and DH.

"I can't imagine not wanting to have sex, unless something else was very wrong."

But loss of desire is very common in long term relationships - even when there are no other problems.

Love, affection, respect can still be there. But no desire for actual sex.

I fancy DH. I don't want to have sex with anyone else. I enjoy cuddling him, kissing him, stroking him, looking at him. I just don't want to have sex.

And I'm not alone in feeling this way.

I wonder what your wife would say...does she realise that she is trapped in a loveless and sexless marriage?

To me it sounds too much like the cheating twunts script. One night stand which turned into an affair which ended when your wife found out...Why did you not end your marriage there and then? You had the perfect opportunity. Why did you give your wife false hope -which it will of done - in her head, rightly or wrongly she won over the OW. It's cruel, dishonest and no way decent. What it is is cowardly and shitty. Compounded now by the fact you are having another affair and in my opinion desperately trying to justify your behaviour.

I need to leave my wife, and when I tell her this she will immediately think there is an OW. So I can't say it is just because I need some space. I do need to move on but I genuinely don't want to tear her apart. I know this makes me a hypocrite But there is another women. Why would you want to say you just need some space? Lies on top of lies. Not once but twice you have done this too her and I suspect now you have someone to fill her shoes you feel safe enough to make the move.
I feel so sorry for your wife, she too has One Life, shame she's wasting it on you.

But you came on here and asked for the best way to tell her its over without hurting her..you're way way too late, you should of done that before Affair No 1.

he would be really concerned that he just wasn't loved any more

That's because men get socialised to believe that women show their love for men by having sex with them and women are socialised to think that they won't want sex if they feel unloved. It's just bollocks (as all the exceptions in life prove) and a massive societal restraint on human sexuality.

And I'm not minimising an individual's need for sex and love, but I think this thread is full of sexual stereotypes; the man who needs sex to feel valid and who 'can't be blamed' for 'getting it elsewhere' and the wife who has never liked sex. Posters are right that this is probably not about sex itself. The OP is probably like a lot of men and women for whom sex is as important as feeling loved, respected and valued as a person. I doubt the lack of sex is what led to him having an affair, but I doubt just as much that his marriage is entirely responsible for his repeated infidelity.

I doubt too that his wife is asexual and doesn't like sex itself. Very few people let alone women fall into that category. There could be any number of reasons why sex has never been on the top of her agenda in this relationship but it's unlikely to be pathological. Hopefully she'll now be free (assuming OP shares parenting) to explore her sexual self and find the person(s) and the relationships that will launch her as a sexual being. I expect she is fed up of being painted as a stereotype of a wife who doesn't like sex and I hope her sex life improves now .

Shagmund said 'I fancy DH. I don't want to have sex with anyone else. I enjoy cuddling him, kissing him, stroking him, looking at him. I just don't want to have sex. And I'm not alone in feeling this way.'

When you say not alone, do you mean that your husband feels this way too? Or that people in general feel this way? Do you mean just women? Or both sexes in many marriages/partnerships?

"When you say not alone, do you mean that your husband feels this way too? Or that people in general feel this way? Do you mean just women? Or both sexes in many marriages/partnerships?"

No, DH wants sex. I don't. I think there are other people out there who have affection, respect and attraction towards their partner, but still don't want to have sex. Probably more common in women than men I suspect. Research would indicate loss of desire is more common in women.