The Lundy Book. So sad

[Abitwobblynow]

This book 'should I stay or should I go?' is just one of the saddest books I have read. Especially for a co dependent, whose life has depended on 'solving the problem'.

What I have discovered, is that after our lives have been rocked by infidelity, nothing has changed, and what is it that I am supposed to be working with?

If he had been shocked by himself (he was) to really face things, really work at looking at himself and make sure he never reverted to those strategies again (naaah, not worth it), then all of this would have been worth it.

But nothing has changed. I am sure I am batshitcrazy to want to talk about the affair, but he says that the few sparse sentences he gave me is enough, and I shouldn't be going on about it. So, for me, it is not going away.

Then, the Lundy book has opened my eyes to the complete futility of our non-transactions. Why is protecting and defending himself/his ego more important than anything else? It has always been this way!

What would happen if he acknowledged that I had a point? Would he blow up and die?

'(Meal) Take any plate you want. Oh no, not that one, I wanted it. [pointing out this is a double message requiring mind reading, rage, retreat. The new me insists on the point being made, conflict]

'You make it very hard for me to talk to you' [after I have erupted in hurt and frustration because he hasn't talked to me about something really important]

'No, it isn't' - instant flat response to everything.

[This one hurts] never touching me affectionately unless he wants sex. After sex the touching stops. I have raised this point several times over a 10 year period.

If I persist, turning the issue back onto me and my faults, issues he never brings up in his own time.

Has anyone read this book? What are your thoughts? Does anything I say echo in anyone's life, or am I batshitcrazy after all?

would not

I didn't know.

I thought he was 'shy' or 'sensitive' or (like the counsellor IMO) had 'issues he was struggling with'.

This is why the affair (and how it was conducted) was just the hugest wake up call. A pail of water in the face.

Now I know, and it is so horrible. To not care, only about the self, to that extent.

It strikes me, Abit that you need to stop listening to anyone telling you what YOU are, and listen hard when your H tells you (through actions, not words) what HE is.

If he really wanted to save the relationship, he would have done something to save the relationship.

It's over, lovey. And not for want of you trying to save it. For want of him doing anything at all to make it work.

Oh wobbly...we're all the same...we want to fix/help them...but we can't cos they don't want to be helped or fixed, they don't want to sort out their issues, they just want to be catered for and looked after, getting what they feel they are owed.

How could they change this mindset without the biggest wake-up call in the world? And most don't even manage it after that.

If you are a "nice" normal person...you can't believe that someone else just does not value, respect or care for others..it's not in your script. But they really don't.

you can't believe that someone else just does not value, respect or care for others..it's not in your script. But they really don't.
I hope that I am not out of order, and correct me if I am wrong Abitwobbley, but, as proof of what Fool is saying, I seem to remember that you said your H rushed out to sack the young employee he had been shagging as soon as you challenged him. To me, that speaks eons...

No doubt he does have issues- lots of people do.

And lots of people are shy and lack confidence.

Some,and of course it is wrong, even have affairs in order to avoid sorting their issues.

But they dont blame you and lie this much and keep doing the same crap which led to the affair in the first place (eg not taking responsibility for communicating his unhappiness, and agreeing joint action) after they have been found out and decided to make a go of it.

But he is.

And he was confident enough WITH YOU, wasnt he, to do what he did, hide it for 18 months, then gamble that he would get away with it with a minimum of real effort afterwards.

And his communication skills were pretty awesome, and his strategic skills, in organising and keeping secret an affair, and in your house.

Are you, in truth, mourning the relationship and deciding to move on without it, and mentally preparing yourself, or are you still trying to change (or suggest change) to him?

If you could answer yourself that, you may be able to see a path through.

I think at the moment you are bouncing between the two, and it is driving you nuts. I think alot of us have been there.

I just want to say, wobbly, the last two years I was in this boat I got very ill, 6 times. Of those 6, three were serious enough to need hospital admission and two lots of double strength ABs. Not that he cleared his work diary for me to go.

This is where it ends up, when you are this stressed and cant make progress.

I now see, what the fuck was I thinking?

It was partly my fault, because I put up with it, in practice. Complaining, however vigorously, and still muddling through is exactly that.

"your H rushed out to sack the young employee he had been shagging as soon as you challenged him. To me, that speaks eons..."

she is still there, Arth! That was my first wake up call, that he was supposed to tell me every time he interacted with her, and he didn't.

What I said was, he called her in and briskly sacked her as his special friend....

Five, I am preparing myself. All hope has gone. It is however really taking time to take on board what Fool says:
"they don't want to be helped or fixed, they don't want to sort out their issues, they just want to be catered for and looked after, getting what they feel they are owed.

How could they change this mindset without the biggest wake-up call in the world? And most don't even manage it after that."

THIS is taking a lot of emotional energy and grief. What Blackcurrants says:

If he really wanted to save the relationship, he would have done something to save the relationship.

It's over, lovey. And not for want of you trying to save it. For want of him doing anything at all to make it work.

Sorry abitwobbly. Thought your H had thought that mistreating 2 women was better than mistreating one.

For want of him doing anything at all to make it work.
We can get over this as well.

Well, we had a trainsmash of a counselling session yesterday.

My alltimehuge red button is to be ignored and dismissed.

H announced that because of my unreasonable attitude and general meanness, he had lost all hope and had given up and it was the end. And he has completely shut down. Cold, remote, 'you are dead to me'. It is frightening how his family can do this, he did this during his affair.

IC talked about my rage and aggression.

Now I wonder: am I really crazy? Did I really, really choose someone who was going to propel me back into childhood (ignore, dismiss, minimise, trivialise), or was he lovely to start off with? Do I cause the problems?

I feel very let down by IC who accepted his evasions/minimising and didn't challenge him on anything. Nobody ever calls this guy on stuff. He comes across as reasonable, and I come across as a raging harpy. We both accused eachother of not listening, but it is like I am required to accept 'it is not as bad as you say/you are causing the problems' which is a dynamic much older than The Catastrophe. I am not half of the problem! My reactions are reactions to him! Or am I the problem? Maybe I am just a disgusting human being.

You didn't cause the problems. you don't cause the problems..... gosh, does it even matter any more?

it's over. Thinking about it and dredging it up and trying to work it through in your mind - while you're still living there- is only going to cause you pain. Get out, get some breathing space, and THEN process it all, without him living with you, treating you badly, and messing with your head.

This marriage is over. in a few months you will be in separate houses. Don't do any more counselling, it is clear he's got the counsellor onside and is using them as a way to make you the bad one and him the saint. It's another way he can mess with your head. Don't let him!

no one - not you, not a book, not the counsellor - is going to make your husband see the problems you see, or want to fix them. He's not going to change. He doesn't want to change. There is not going to be a return to happily ever after. So just stop letting him in. Start closing off from him. Start househunting/tell him to start househunting.
Start living like flatmates, not husband and wife. Start accepting the end, and you can both move on and stop destroying each other.

Honestly, I think that this terrible destructive spiral you are both in might be worse for your poor kids and their exams than a break and some fresh air would be. They're going to know how unhappy you both are. Have you considered talking to the older ones about what's happening or are you pretending to them that everything is fine?

Complete curiousity: why is food such a control thing?

(ps living like flatmates, that is what we are doing). He is now defining the final story: he doesn't like me and I don't like him, that is why it is ending. I do not accept his way of being, which is controlling and intolerable.

Whatever. As long as you start househunting and get all this pain out of my life... (hmmm, I don't think the reality of him moving, living on his own, no, that hasn't sunk in AT ALL! Nor has he thought, that if 'the problem' [me] is removed, he will be left... with himself.)

But I don't care!!!! Math's observation of an emotional drain sunk in, and I am going to really try to develop my own life now. Thanks everyone x

All going by Lundy's book :( abit.
Institutions let women down again and again.
I am surprised that you had not realized that it was all your fault by now . I am sure that it was not for lack of him telling you so.
I had to use a horrible threat with FWH yesterday. I said that another attack followed by it being my fault would mean that I would 'lay his shit bare'. This would have consequences for him beyond me, but this is what I had to come to

Arth, the desperation of the fighting! It is literally to the DEATH, not to own or acknowledge anything. He doesn't care what he sacrifices, as long as he can deflect the issue - usually onto me.

Unfortunately I have become a walking red hot button on this. I will raise an issue - it will instantly be bogged down into details (denied) and I erupt.
Which proves of course that I am a nasty person, and mad.

He is SO hard done by! How come he gets the sympathy card?!

I am contacting - not for the sake of the marriage, but for my own self-control - someone who can apparently help me with this.

Arth, good luck. Do you still live in the same house? Are you not able to put the phone down on him?

Unfortunately I have become a walking red hot button on this. I will raise an issue - it will instantly be bogged down into details (denied) and I erupt.
There is a very quick -to explain, not to do - solution to this: do NOT raise any issues! No point. - see the last posts of the EA board

EA board? Posted by whom? Do you have a link, I wd be v grateful.

Sorry, Abit not board, thread. I am sure you have seen it, but here is the link.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/1425123-Support-thread-for-those-in-Emotionally-abusive-relationships-number-7