I guess men can spot it a mile off?

[mcmooncup]

I split with my abusive ex of 15 years coming up for a year ago. And since then I have been dating quite a lot. I have no problem attracting men.........but mmmm the keeping part and getting to a relationship level, I'm not so sure what is going on.

I seem to crave them liking me and don't even think about whether I like them. I don't even know what I want from men....I seem to thrive off this intial excitement of the flurry of texts, calls, emails, and then get hooked and they back off.

I will give you an example of my typical cycle. Met a guy a few weeks ago, texts and calls all last week, got on really well. Met him for lunch yesterday. Had a really nice time, easy chat, stayed for 4 hours. He went for a kiss when we parted and I sort of offered my cheek. Bit awkward and he obviously wanted to see me again.....said something like "keep in touch, yeah?". Few texts last night about Sunday evening stuff - nothing about the date. I was the last to text him at about 10.30ish. And he has not replied yet. I know he was going to London today early, but he was this time last week and texted all the way down on the train etc. And now I just feel pathetically needy that he has not texted. And so now I will probably be off with him when / if he does text but trying to be normal and not bovvered. WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME?

I think to myself that it is because I don't know what a normal relationship is about? i.e. that you don't text someone all the time, feel the need to tell someone where you are all the time (ex used to monitor me heavily), I don't know what the hell I want - I read on here somewhere that abusive relationships make you feel numb - I think that is me, but also when I tell men that I have an abusive ex, there is something that flickers over their face (Raoul Moat theme I guess) and they don't want to get involved in a messy situation like that.

God, I don't know. Just feeling shitter and shitter about myself as all these dates crash and burn after a period of time when I know they liked me initially. I feel like my past is stopping my future and I just want to feel normal.

Thanks if you have read this. I'm not even sure what I'm asking.

unfortunately, to me "keep in touch, yeah?" sounds like he is blowing you off. maybe you should stop dating for a while., work on your self esteem, maybe get some counselling. because, to me, you do sound needy. sorry. him not texting you yet could be anything, he could have gone to bed at 10.30. he could have been working.

you sound like you have terribly low self esteem and you cant expect a man to fix that for you.

15 years is a hell of a long time to be with an abusive man.

You need to take a breather and concentrate on just you.

Join gym, visit friends, volunteer in your spare time, join clubs or activities that interest you. There is plenty of time to date in the future. You need to build on your self esteem and only you can do that, not some man.

Also sometimes when we aren't actively looking for relationships, things just happen naturally.

I think you would benefit from time alone.

OP, I'm sorry you've been through an abusive relationship. 15 years is a long time. I was in an abusive relationship for 15 months, that was 8 years ago and it still has an effect on my self-esteem today.

You sound very self-aware - you know that you have an unhealthy view of what relationships are about. You being 'off' with a guy because he hasn't texted you back sounds like a passive-agressive way of trying to assert yourself without the courage to do it openly. That's not a criticism, I'm not at all surprised that you have issues with your confidence after so long with someone who made you feel awful.

I agree with lissielou that counselling would be a great idea. I have been seeing a psychotherapist for about 2 years and it is changing my life - that's no exaggeration. I am in a (wonderful) relationship and have been for several years but I realise all the time just how much my past affects my present. It feels good to be taking control. Take your self-awareness and channel it into improving your own confidence, so you can be a happier person. To be honest, I would suggest ditching the blokes for now so you can fully concentrate on you. Good luck

Maybe you're not ready to date again, yet? Have you done any counselling regarding your abusive relationship?

The Freedom Programme is often recommended here, and would help you set boundaries and expectations for a relationship. It might be a good idea to address the past so you can move on.

For me there are 2 things that stand out from your post:

1. You have dated lots of men in the year since you split
2. you don't know what you want from them

I hope you don't mind me being blunt (i will try to be brief at least)
-you don't seem to have given yourself any time to find out who you really are after the end of your 15 year abusive relationship.
-you don't seem to have had time to grieve it, or to work out why you stayed and what you got from/gave to an abusive relationship
-you are not yet comfortable in your own skin, so probably your dates become either confused about who you are and what you want, or scared that you seem needy and run off.

I think Lissie is right to suggest you take time off from dating...I think you need to spend time socialising and building up your cohort of friends (have several rings of friends...best best, good friends and what I call friendly acquaintances), work out what you did in your 15 year relationship that prevented you from spotting the abuse and running a mile 9thus ensuring that you don't endup in another shitty relationship)
practise being direct and polite about what you want/need so you don't send off alarming background signals of need/want.

Be happy to be you, because nobody else can bring change/fulfillment/happiness to you if you can't do it for yourself.

Sorry long!!
Good luck

Keep in touch yeah translates as call me but I wont answer cause I'm not intrested

yeah - second what keep in touch means.

But i doubt its you. really.

join us on the dating thread, and you will see that this sort of behaviour is really common, and yes, it does make you second guess yourself, and doubt yourself sometimes.
But for some reason, he just didnt want to take it any futher, dont take it personally ( difficult sometimes, i know )

Being desperate for love (however understandable) or male approval always ends in a bad place, because it makes us put up with rubbish behaviour and rubbish relationships. A different approach may help you value yourself more - and agree with others here - new interests, counselling, etc to start you on that journey. Good luck.

I'd find your expectation of constant texting really odd but maybe that's because I'm over 35. I'd want to make another date, or expect / make a call during the week suggesting something for next weekend. While I'm working though - I assume his London trip is for work - I'm working and will deal with personal texts and messages at lunch time or in the evening. I understand that texting back and forth about trivia can be fun and flirty sometimes but it would quickly become irksome if expected.

It sounds as though you may across as needy and clingy and that you're leaping forwards too quickly to seeing yourself as 'practically their girlfriend' when they're just dating. That's off-putting.

Normal, nice men appreciate women who are self-confident and have their own life and interests, as well as being interested in them, so are clearly making a choice to spend time with them despite other options - that's flattering. I think women who seem ready to throw themselves into being a girlfriend too early ring alarm bells, as it may seem that girfriend status is more important than the particular relationship and they'll quickly become less fun and a bit of a burden.

'Keep in touch' sounds like 'see you around' to me, so 'that was nice but we're not going any further'.

The freedom programme might be somewhere to start?

Thanks for your replies.

I know you are all right that I have horrendous low self esteem and am trying to get a man to fix it for me. And I no, I don't know why I stayed in an abusive relationship for so long. I have a few ideas (controlling dad) but no real firm grip on that. I have thought about counselling and went to the doctors last week and she was really quite blase and said the waiting list is 12 months, so erm, sorry. My mum may pay for me to go private though, so maybe that is something I should do.

I think I was optimistic when we first split up that I could deal with everything and move on. But it has harmed me more than I want to let on. It's kind of like admitting defeat. Admitting that he has ruined me and I'm not normal anymore.

As for the keep in touch thing, he said it as a question, "keep in touch, yeah?" which I took as "will you keep in touch?", and was quite keen. I'm probably off with that from what you are all saying but that is how it sounded and my shit feeling comes from the fact that I now feel like he should be all over me like a rash because he made his feelings clear (there were other things in the date that showed he was quite keen and even in the texts last night) but anyhow.......sort of irrelevant.

Weirdly, I have loads of friends, and a couple of really solid best friends who look out for me all the time. But I'm not sure I even let on to them how bad I am feeling about everything and they say "you are doing really well, I'm proud of you", when really I feel like crap a lot of the time.

Hello OP

I agree with what the other posters have said. I was in an abusive relationship too (6yrs) and came to realise (after flinging myself about at some unsuitable men) that I needed to build myself up first.

It takes longer than you think.

It's great that your are dating. Try also to apply that approach to friends and hobbies - get out there, see what you like, make new friends and make yourself into a whole person.

I took up swing dancing, which was great for my self esteem but has never had anything to do with relationships, so there is nothing that can go wrong there.

Make yourself into the best person you can be, and give yourself lots of time, you sound lovely.

X post with Lottie

You see how pathetic I really am with my last post.

Thing is I hate being needy. Don't want to be it. But seems I better accept that I am and try and do something about it.

Agree with others that not wanting to take it further doesn't reflect badly on you. He had a nice time but he does this and knows he can do it with other women too. He's keeping his options open. Even if there was a real connection between you he might back off then show more interest if you meet again, rather than pursue a linear path from date to relationship.

I second what the others have said... ease up on the dating for a while, and build up a social life with friends, not dates. You need to have some space, and less than a year is really no time at all to recover from 15 years of abuse.

Sadly I think the other posters are also right in that "keep in touch" was a polite brush off, so I would stop texting him.

Good relationships usually take time to develop, sometimes it can take a few months, it is rarely an overnight love at first sight thing. Get to know a person as well as you can do before committing yourself or getting too involved with them.

He hasn't ruined you, never think that. He tried to break you, but he didn't manage it in 15 years - you're still standing and you're free of him.

It sounds like your dad set you up for that kind of man, so a bit of an internal reset is required. Do see if your mum will pay - and if not, I think(?) the Freedom Programme is free.

OP, don't worry about feeling like crap a lot of the time. It sounds to me like a perfectly normal response to being in an abusive relationship for such a long time. When I got away from my ex, I spent about a year feeling quite numb, not quite believing that this had happened to me. Luckily, my friends were also fab and I spent lots of time going out witht them and enjoying my new freedom!

It took over a year for me to think about having counselling but it's the best decision I ever made. My therapist charges £40 a session, I think the going rate is £40 -50 for a 50 minute session, if that helps.

'Admitting that he has ruined me and I'm not normal anymore'

You can take back control of your life. You did an incredibly brave thing in getting away from him, and you should be very proud of yourself for that. Acknowledging the impact that this relationship has had on you would also be a brave thing, and would help you to move forward independently. It's not easy, and it takes time, but the rewards are more than worth it!

Also, if you feel you can confide in your friends about your real feelings, do it! I don't blame you for being cautious because some people can be very insensitive, but if you feel that you have people in your life that you can open up to, don't be ashamed to unburden yourself. It's not counselling, but just sharing the feelings that you have, putting words to them and saying things out loud can feel very freeing. So long as you have a listening and sympathetic ear to hear it!

I'm not sure any of you others who have been in an abusive relationship have the same thing but I find it really really hard to articulate what I feel about ANYTHING.

It's like I am sort of dead inside but am an expert at putting on a breezy happy go lucky sort of thing. But I guess I am realising that people see through that

Another bit of advice I can offer, stemming from my own personal experience, is that when you are fairly fresh out of an abusive relationship, it is oh so easy to fuck it all up again by getting involved with another one who is of a similar kind. I can look back now and think to myself why did I not wait a while and spend more time enjoying being single, rather than jump into another relationship almost as if to prove to the world that I could do..

Bad (and good) experience has taught me that the more charming a bloke appears, the more keen he is from the start, and when they are very intensive and seem almost too good to be true, they usually are..... the ones who dont rush you, dont smother you, and may appear a bit cooler and offhand are often the ones who are likely to be a much more decent bloke.

'I'm not sure any of you others who have been in an abusive relationship have the same thing but I find it really really hard to articulate what I feel about ANYTHING'

Oh yes I recognise this! In my case, it was because of my emotionally abusive childhood - I had been conditioned all my life to believe that my feelings were at best trivial and at worst shameful, and as such, something that just couldn't be talked about. Ever. My abusive relationship just compounded this experience. The work with my psychotherapist is sorting me out! Honestly OP, I can't recommend it enough! That and Mumsnet - there are lots of people on here who have been through similar and it's a great place to come when you need someone to listen and understand and reassure you that there are good reasons why you are having strange/scary thoughts.

mooncup, are you telling these dates that your last relationship was an abusive one? I wonder if that is partly why there could be a hesitancy in these dates to take the relationship further..

One fundamental difference between men and women is often that a woman will meet a man who says he was in an abusive relationship and will want to "fix him"... whereas men can often be more wary of getting involved with a woman who has been in that situation, and may back off a bit.

I agree that fifteen years is a very long time to be with an abusive partner. It has severely knocked your confidence and self-belief and has made you feel like you need the support of a partner in your life in whichever form it takes.

"Keep in touch, yeah?" sounds like he's blowing you off too. I suggest you wait for him to text for a day and if he doesn't, try to move on. Get yourself a friend that has no romantic connotations. Help yourself to move on by building up your own network of support. Speak to a counsellor, join a group, groom yourself (see the princessing thread - I know a good pamper session helps me feel good about myself), join a gym to get the exercise endorphins flowing and think about yourself for a little bit. It's going to be a rough road and you'll probably feel emotionally inept and a little bit needy for a while but I promise the more time you spend with you the more you will know you and love you.

Squeaky - yes that is the thing. I think I know that normal men don't smother you. But when they don't, I feel like it is because they don't like me. It's such a stupid Catch 22.

And also yes to your second question - I do tell them and I do see them go "woooaahhh" but I thought about it a lot. And the problem is that they kind of have a point. My ex has quite recently (3 weeks ago) texted me to tell me that if I am dating someone who I made FB friends with that he found out about (I wasn't) then he would rip his head off. "And it might not be straight away but would be over the next 5 years". I thought that the reasonable thing for me to do would be to tell dates that I do have an abusive ex and they will then decide whether they want to get involved. At LEAST 1 has decided they don't because of that. But I'm not sure of the alternative - I can't pretend he isn't a lunatic who might have a go at them?

And thank you JOsie -I need to call my mum and a counsellor. I hope I have the same rebuilding experience that you seem to have had

Sounds to me like the ex is still trying to get involved in your life, so it is far from over. It is none of his business who you see, but how is he managing to find out who you are friends with on facebook?

Change your phone number too.

To get away from an abusive ex, you have to cut all ways of contact with them. If they know they are getting at you, they will continue to have an effect on your life, and you can not start to recover your life.

If he continues to harass you, you have to call the police.

do you have children with your ex? it does sound like he is still trying to control you.