I guess men can spot it a mile off?

[mcmooncup]

I split with my abusive ex of 15 years coming up for a year ago. And since then I have been dating quite a lot. I have no problem attracting men.........but mmmm the keeping part and getting to a relationship level, I'm not so sure what is going on.

I seem to crave them liking me and don't even think about whether I like them. I don't even know what I want from men....I seem to thrive off this intial excitement of the flurry of texts, calls, emails, and then get hooked and they back off.

I will give you an example of my typical cycle. Met a guy a few weeks ago, texts and calls all last week, got on really well. Met him for lunch yesterday. Had a really nice time, easy chat, stayed for 4 hours. He went for a kiss when we parted and I sort of offered my cheek. Bit awkward and he obviously wanted to see me again.....said something like "keep in touch, yeah?". Few texts last night about Sunday evening stuff - nothing about the date. I was the last to text him at about 10.30ish. And he has not replied yet. I know he was going to London today early, but he was this time last week and texted all the way down on the train etc. And now I just feel pathetically needy that he has not texted. And so now I will probably be off with him when / if he does text but trying to be normal and not bovvered. WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME?

I think to myself that it is because I don't know what a normal relationship is about? i.e. that you don't text someone all the time, feel the need to tell someone where you are all the time (ex used to monitor me heavily), I don't know what the hell I want - I read on here somewhere that abusive relationships make you feel numb - I think that is me, but also when I tell men that I have an abusive ex, there is something that flickers over their face (Raoul Moat theme I guess) and they don't want to get involved in a messy situation like that.

God, I don't know. Just feeling shitter and shitter about myself as all these dates crash and burn after a period of time when I know they liked me initially. I feel like my past is stopping my future and I just want to feel normal.

Thanks if you have read this. I'm not even sure what I'm asking.

Ex is definitely still trying to be involved in my life. We have 2 DCs and some form of contact seems inevitable. I don't know how he found out about the FB friending because I have blocked him?

I called the police a few weeks ago about harassment around the time of the "rip your head off" text because he was in abusive mode again but then now, straight after he had crossed the line, he is in perfect ex / dad phase for the past few weeks and I have let it slip again.

Oh god, I am not doing great here am I?

I dont know how these things work (luckily) but it seems to me that you should concentrate on counselling etc and getting yourself on your feet. he cant hurt you anymore. you are not his possession and you can be happy again.

You are doing great, you are doing great because you have ended the relationship with him, and that is the biggest step and the bravest one. So dont think that you are not doing great.

You now need to work on getting to a point where you have absolute minimal contact with him. If it means handing over the children via a relative or at a contact centre, then that is what needs to be done. You have to let this man understand that he has absolutely no control over YOUR life at all and never will have again.

Honestly, for now, forget the dating. The last thing you really need at the moment is a new relationship, until you are ready for one, and I dont think you are just yet. Concentrate on you and your children. That is the most important thing for now.

And please, dont put your personal stuff on facebook.. even when someone is blocked, there is always a way that they can find out things... via mutual friends, relatives, who you may think you can trust, but who naively let him use their phones/pc's... it really is so easy to keep tabs on anyone on facebook. Never put stuff on your status or on comments that you would rather he not hear about.

Thanks squeaky. I only put up inane nonsense on fb but he is clearly monitoring that somehow because he saw I had made friends with A BLOKE HE DOESN'T KNOW

I called the counseling service recommended to me and they said it is counseling not CBT I should have. And it is a man who does the counseling.......I'm not sure a man is the best thing or does it not make any difference?

I think a man doing the counselling would be fine. If anything it can help to show you that not all men are like your ex. Give it a go and see how you get on.

'I'm not sure a man is the best thing or does it not make any difference?'

Completely depends on how you feel. My first therapist was a man, my current therapist is a woman and I'm much more comfortable with the female therapist. Very personal decision but don't be afraid to ask for a female therapist if if makes you more comfortable.

You could try blocking him and also anyone that he knows, there are settings which can make you unsearchable too, I think. I don't know whether blocking someone still allows them to see your friends list.

One thing I do think about counselling is that you NEED someone who understands the dynamics of abuse and the effect it can have on you, whether that's a counsellor who specialises in abuse cases, or a counselling service directed at abuse victims, or something like the freedom programme. The problem with seeing a counsellor who doesn't understand abuse is that the issues are very complex and difficult, for example, I told one of my counsellors that I was having trouble with my ex and she went through some assertiveness exercises with me, which would be fine in the case of a normal situation but with an abusive person you need to go beyond assertiveness!

I have also found the website/blog www.baggagereclaim.co.uk extremely helpful.

I don't think you need to tell new partners, BTW. Of course mention it if it comes up if it is relevant, e.g. if he starts harrassing them or if there is an issue with DS or if something they do accidentally upsets you, it would be worth explaining then, but I don't think it's something you need to lay out on a first date just in case they are upset by finding it out later - remember it's nothing to be ashamed of, it's nothing you've done, it's just extremely unfortunate that you had to experience it.

also when I tell men that I have an abusive ex, there is something that flickers over their face (Raoul Moat theme I guess) and they don't want to get involved in a messy situation like that

Of course not OP. How early are you telling them this stuff? The first six months of a new relationship should be all about the new couple. Mentioning exes too early should be avoided. As it comes up you can mention it but don't present it as an ongoing problem, anyone would run a mile from that.

If I were you I would get plenty of counselling and get the old relationship out of your system and start finding out who you are before trying to go into a new relationship. Numbness and neediness are two forms of damage caused by the old bad relationship. Do some CBT and learn how to lay to rest the old disfunctions and learn new healthy ways.

Thanks all.

I am surprised you all think not to tell people about the ex. It always seems to come up "so why did you split with your husband?"

And I feel like I shouldn't lie. Because of all the things I am, I am not ashamed. But the ex has certainly sabotaged one potential relationship. He knew I was out (drive by) and didn't know where and called constantly while I was out threatening to go in and remove the babysitter because he "did not know who was looking after his children".....so I had to answer, couldn't ignore him. And therefore had to explain to my date what was happening. Didn't see much of the date after that and when I did speak to him, his first question was "how is the ex?".

I have booked into counseling on Thursday and just read some horrid upsetting stuff about co-dependency. I see I have a lot of work to do.

They will ask, but you can easily say you would rather not really go into it in detail, just that it wasnt an easy relationship, and he wasnt a nice man.

It isnt a case of lying, and it is possibly scaring them away a little if you launch into a full account of what happened.

I really really do not think you are ready to be dating yet. You need to (to use a cliche) "find yourself" before you find anyone else. Put yourself and your child first.

15 years with an abusive partner is a huge chunk of your life, and you deserve to have a breather, on your own, making your own choices, and once you are happy in yourself, then take the next steps to maybe allowing someone else into your life.

I agree with squeakytoy, every last word.

You should read 'women who love too much' by Robin Norwood ..

It's all about the sort of relationships that you tend to form (me too!)trying to always please the man .. not thinking if it's what you want ..

Have tissues handy - I cried buckets when I read it x

Thanks - I've just ordered the book and read the reviews on Amazon. Looks like it will hit a few nerves alright

The thing is that "Why did you split up?" is a loaded question, really. They're not just curious, they're wanting to know why the relationship broke down in case you were at fault and you do the same to them.

Remember, also, that most people in society have no idea of the reality and the dynamics of an abusive relationship. You absolutely should not be ashamed, and I'm not saying it's something that you should hide, but often if you tell people you were in an abusive relationship for 15 years, they are going to think you are being overdramatic (and therefore you might end up accusing them of all sorts of stuff because you're an overdramatic person) and/or they are going to wonder why you put up with it for 15 years. Unfortunately, pretty much the only immediately socially accepted way to have experienced abuse is for him to have hit you and then for you to have left soon after this.

This is really not how it should be :( but unfortunately because of the general low level of understanding about abuse (This board on mumsnet is a happy little bubble, really) you have to tell people in a way that they understand. So, don't lie, but perhaps use examples of his behaviour in order to answer that question, such as "I got tired of him never pulling his weight" or "He used to put me down all the time, made me feel crap about myself" or if the abuse was physical, almost add a disclaimer, "He used to hit me, I'd grown up with an abusive father so I knew no different really."

I hate typing this and I know it sounds bad like you're minimising the abuse but I do feel that if you go straight in and be honest then people don't want to believe it, and they will find every little excuse and way to rationalise it away, whereas if you build up a slow picture of examples at relevant times they are more likely to be accepting, they might even form new ideas about what constitutes abuse as a consequence.

I agree with squeakytoy too.

Thanks Bertie

I think what you say makes total sense. I guess it is normal to me but most people do not understand about it and just think Hassle, with a capital H. And is she going to accuse me of it etc etc. I have seen faces change as they hear what I say ( I don't go into massive detail by the way, just skim over it. But was doing it genuinely because it was something I worry they would get entangled in so thought I had better be upfront)

But no matter. I must be strong and stay away from the short lived highs I get from dating at the moment. The counsellor called me about half an hour ago for chat about 'my ishoos' and was quite sweet but a bit shocked at '15 years' and said I really hope I can help you, which made me feel a little pathetic. But I have come to the point I have to accept I am a bit pathetic and have to deal with it in order not to be quite so pathetic .

I was listening to Robbie Williams' Feel song earlier and there is a line which says "there's a hole in my soul, you can see it on my face, it's a real big place"

I always loved Robbie

You arent pathetic at all. You have come out of a shit relationship, and it is normal to want to make up for lost time, every bloke who chat you up seems like an opportunity to replace the bad relationship with a new good one.. but where you are seeing a possible romance, many of them will not be looking for the same, and dont want to get involved with someone with a lot of baggage. That doesnt make it your fault, or anything to be ashamed of either.. but it is so easy to go from one relationship straight into another without giving yourself the time that you need to concentrate on YOU. Voice of experience speaking here. :) I made that mistake a few times.

Pulling a bloke is easy, we can all do that, but finding a decent bloke takes a bit more time, that is all. And that is no slur on you at all, but when you are ready you need a man that will treat you decently, not someone who is just after a shag, and that is why you need a bit of "me time" on your own, so that you are able to be a better judge, because at the moment, every bloke will seem like a refreshing change from the arsehole you found the strength to get rid of, but that doesnt mean they are the right one for you.

Is the counsellor someone experienced in abuse counselling? I think this is fairly important. Fifteen years is a long time but I'm a a bit alarmed at a counsellor being shocked by it if they have dealt with abuse victims in depth before.

I think I made a mistake when I first got together with DP that I really wanted him to understand what XP was like. And so every time something happened I'd bring up some other anecdote about him being a dick. We'd be in the car and I'd tell him that XP's driving was terrible and made me worry for my safety. We'd be shopping and I'd laugh about some stupid, pointless argument we'd had in a supermarket which had dragged on for days. It actually made DP feel really uncomfortable. He took all this to mean that I wasn't over him at all, and he kept having dreams that I was back with XP and laughing at him. I was mortified when he told me - it was entirely the opposite of what I was hoping to achieve! I was just trying to build up a picture, because I really wanted him to understand what the abuse was like. But I've realised now that he doesn't need to understand what it was like for me. It's enough for him to know that I left XP because I wasn't happy and then any issues which come up, about sex for example, or if he is annoyed with me, I just say "Could you not do X, please, because it reminds me of something XP used to do and it scares/upsets me." and he says "Okay" and sometimes we talk about the incident and sometimes we don't. I've just had an intro session with a counsellor so far but I think it's going to really help having someone to talk to about it. DP isn't the right person for that, and I think I wanted him to be, but it doesn't work like that.

HTH a bit, anyway.

I have to be honest and say that coming out of a 5-year relationship it was 18 months before I felt even interested in the idea of a date, and another 18 months before I actually met someone I liked. I wasn't sad about that time on my own, it was lovely. I wonder if you don't think you deserve to be able to have time that is yours, to do what you like (obviously a bit more restricted with 2 DCs, but still ). Is there anything you've ever wanted to do that you didn't - something that is sheer pleasure, for you?

Threatening ex's can often be all talk. Men who have a go at women can often think twice before they have a go at a man. A lad I know was going out with a girl who had this problem and he turned a blind eye until the ex texted her threatening to come to his house and burn it down. As he had kids he didnt take this threat kindly so went round and kicked the shit out of him. Funnily enough the threats stopped....

Never think a man is going to solve all your problems. There are decent men around but rushing into relationships is never a good idea. You can be happy without a man.

Yeah you are right.......I kinda fancy just about anyone. Just because they are not the A hole I was married to.

Fancy/appreciate people as much as you like... that's one of those pleasures that is very uncomplicated when you're single. You just don't have to DO anything about it.

For me an early day after I split from my partner was spent pottering slowly round a market, choosing a couple of little things, stopping for a coffee...the WHOLE day... enjoying not having to take account of anyone else's preferences, timetable, no snorts of annoyance, no sighs of impatience, no obscenities about other people, no placating for me to do, no squashing down anger or distress so that he didn't get annoyed, going by public transport and reading whatever I liked, instead of being driven much too fast and aggressively and him getting angry with my terrible navigation... oh that day, the joy of it, i will remember it all my life. You deserve days like that too.