i love you but i'm not in love with you

[dizzy36]

my dh has been saying this to me since dec 2010, he has left and come back twice, I recently found out that during this whole time he has been having an 'emotional' relationship with a young girl who he employed at his shop a few months prior to his revelation about how he feels abut me. Now, i know we had our problems, having 2 young children can take away from a relationship for a while. Each time, i try and discuss our relationship and this 'girlfriend' of his, he gets all distant and starts telling me i'm just not in love with you. When i ask him what this means he says 'i dont think about you all the time, you dont feel special to me anymore! Please tell me if this makes me a bad wife but i dont think about my husband all the time and i'm afraid he doesnt make me go weak at the knees anymore like he did when we met 20 years ago. I still love him very much though. I thought after 20 years love whould be based on respect, loyalty, a history together, children...am I wrong?

We have always had an amazing sex life which has suffered since our youngest was born as i was always 'too tired'.
When we are 'getting along' it is wonderful, he is affectionate, our sex life is back to the way it was, but if i mentioned his indescretion he would go all distant and I have discovered i was pushing him back towards this girl each time. It is really complicated and hard enough to compute when you are in the situation but the feeling i am getting is...He wants his marriage to work but he needs things to be simple, no pressure like me bringing up our problems. He is going to this girl each time he feels pressured by me because she represents simplicity, she hangs on his every word which must be great for his ego. What man wouldnt say yes to a bit on the side who comes running every time he clicks his fingers and a wife and children at home. If you saw him you would be surprised...short, balding, little overweight, middle aged man with 2 women on the go....I'd laugh if it wasnt so ludicrous.

If anyone reads this please can i ask for no negative comments, I am in this situation out of choice because my family is important enough for me to give it a chance.

I think the whole i love you but not in love with you is a person who doesnt know what it means, someone who is being blinded by an infatuation with someone who is giving them what they need...some attention and flattery. I have seen some of the correspondence between these two, it looks like something out of a teen romance. I beleive the secrecy/naughtiness/excitement is part of the attraction too.

Its important to add that during last 6 months i have started courses and work to better myself. I get the distinct impression that my dh is a little put out by it...he is trying to be supportive but I definitely see an edge of resentment, i think he struggles with me not needing him anymore. Mid life crisis anyone?

Does anyone have an opionion on the whole i love you but am not in love with scenario? is it an excuse to get out a relationship so can start another one

Thank you for listening

Dizzy, I understand you want to protect your children and you don't want to see your marriage as 20 years wasted.

I too was with my H for 23 years but sometime, somewhere you have to draw the line.

The line will save you, your children and if he is truly serious about wanting you and your marriage, your putting down boundaries firmly will wake him up (maybe not immediately, but they will one day).

Look after your children, you've done that pretty much on your own for many years already so it's not going to be any different. Now you need to start looking after yourself too.

Dizzy: Its important to add that during last 6 months i have started courses and work to better myself. I get the distinct impression that my dh is a little put out by it...he is trying to be supportive but I definitely see an edge of resentment, i think he struggles with me not needing him anymore.

YOU GO, GIRL! Do more. And more. And even more. Because all the while you grow youself, you will get to a place of strength where you will decide that you are strong enough to [fill in decision] and he will live the inevitable consequences of his emotionally avoidant behaviour. He will find that he has lost the most important woman (not OW) and precious thing (his family) of his life. And he did it, to himself.

I am not going to comment on your original thread, because that is your sad journey of discovery and hurt you need to go on, but just know we know where you are, we know your pain, and we will support you all the way.

But do you know what your courses represent and why he doesn't like it? Because your focus isn't on him and he is not calling the shots

So keep the focus on you - you are the only person you can change - and let go of his avoidant dick sucked in the supply cupboard ego stroked by idiot emotionally damaged needy OW, who he deserves.

This gem of a saying means "I want you to be my wife but I want someone else to be my mistress"

HTH

Actually Dizzy I am can see the logic in your holding pattern tbh. How old is your smallest child?

You are holding fire whilst you develop yourself and get your ducks lined up in a row. That makes sense.

1. Keep on doing your courses and working towards your independence.
2. Every time you go shopping, get cashback and hide it in a safe place he won't find.
3. Buy that expensive household stuff (Flash, loo rolls, w powder etc) and start to store.
4. Start photocopying every bit of financial information you can find (phone bills, cc statements, bank statements) and store with a friend. You will need to work out a budget should your M end.
5. Are you able to stop sleeping with him? If not, make ML YOUR control, ie it only happens when you want it, not him. Tell him, sorry, I don't sleep with people who aren't in love with me. So I will use you when I need it. Goodnight!

[These are tips from women who are looking back in hindsight by the way. ie hard won experience]

You really need to dwell on what ILYBINILWY really, really means. There is a very good book Tough Love by Dr James Dobson. It is Christian based, but it doesn't make it any less relevant. If you don't want to buy it, here is the premise:

If a man feels trapped, set him free. If he doesn't want to be married any more, take the marriage away. If he is torn between you and OW, throw him into OW's open, loving arms and open, loving legs.

He can't 'react' against your clinging attempts to connect, pull for 'freedom' if you are pushing him away - and leaving him in that space.

You are starting to do this already (courses, telling him he can do whatever he wants). He does't like it, does he!

Read Greyriver's thread.

OP, I don't know how old your children are but unless they are very young they will be aware that all is not as it should be in your marriage.
My brother and I were very aware of the tension and pretence in our parents marriage after my Mum's affair and they decided to give it another try.
I was 11, my brother was 8 and we remember having discussions between the two of us, wondering why they were bothering. It was obvious she didn't really want to be there and it was painful how hard my dad was trying. I wouldn't wish that on anyone, parent or child alike.
In case you are wondering, my brother and I hold our mother responsible for that situation. We have both grown up to have happy, respectful relationships, but that is based on what happened after my mum finally left. The decrease in tension was palpable.

"I love you but I'm not in love with you"

Definition: I'm fucking somebody else.

We should get the dictionary changed.

Hi everyone, I'm not going to post again because clearly presumptions have already been made just on a short paragraph of my life. I dont mind being told i have low self esteem or even that my 20 year marriage is a sham (!)
One lady said I am holding fire while i develop myself...and why not? why shouldnt I get myself a life and a career before I decide what to do with him. He can go whenever he wants, I am not stopping him from leaving. I am not holding him here. I dont discuss our marriage, i dont mention his little child/girlfriend, why? because i am not interested. If she was having sex with him while we were seperated, something tells me its not happening now...in fact the texts/messages i have seen clearly show a very clingy needy and very immature person who is revelling in the attention she is getting from my dh. I dont blame her at all, I think she is getting from my dh what she is not getting from her own relationship...a bit of attention, flattery, pampering. Its not real and quite sad really and I have no need to compete with someone like that....there is no competition beleive me. Either way, I dont really care, i am a mother first and i have to do what i feels right for them, everyones situation is different. They will find out one day what their dad is like but i dont think it will be me that they will disrespect.
My children will be fine believe me, they are happy seeing their dad for a couple of hours a day. Break ups can be beneficial to children if they are done right but my dh is a total fool who thought it was right to bully/intimidate me into seeing the children when he wanted to, disrupt their school lives...'they'll just have to get used to it' were his words. If I kicked him out he will, without realising it, destroy his families life. If he does have NPD, he cant have empathy towards his children either can he? I know he loves them, but he sees them as objects/property that should do what he wants. It hasnt always been like this, he has just got worse as he has gotten older and i really do think that mid-life has triggered this NPD to what it is now. I honestly feel i have to protect my children from this man and this way is better for the time being...they are happy beleive me, my dh and I do get along beleive it or not..., we laugh, we spend time together, we have been together for 20 years and i know him like the back of my hand in every way.
I would like to thank you for all your comments. I asked the question and you answered

"One lady said I am holding fire while i develop myself...and why not? why shouldnt I get myself a life and a career before I decide what to do with him."

And I agree with you. IMO it is the right way to go about it, instead of reacting.

Why not?

Because of the damage this does to children.

And it does whether the OP wants to delude herself that the damage isn't happening, it most certainly is.

Agree with Sternface. Good luck OP but I don't think you're seeing this clearly.

OP, don't get all stroppy about how people don't understand you and you're not the one with the self-esteem problem.

Read your opening post, and the few that followed before you changed your tune. He wants his marriage to work but he needs things to be simple, no pressure like me bringing up our problems. talking about how you just need to be the wife you were 3 years ago. minimising his affair and the importance of his OW. actually asking what ILYBINILWY means, as if it wasn't as clear as day. etc. etc. etc.

You sound very much like you're at your H's beck and call, wringing your hands about what you can do to make him love you again. Why else would people tell you you have no respect for yourself?

Yes, you changed your tune half-way through your thread, but that smacks of significant denial when your original post still stands there, broadcasting self-denigration.

I'm glad you're doing courses etc. and want to do right by your children. but just read your original post again and ask yourself what's really going on inside your heart. Think about how your children would feel if they were adults, reading that post. I think you're confused, and I think you've been more damaged by your marriage than you realise.

Just had to write this one last thing. The only reason I can think I would write such horrible posts about someone i dont even know is because i was a bitter angry woman.

Marriages are hard work, one or both may make mistakes along the way, it is a fact marriages can come back from infidelity, it is a fact that some men (and women) genuinely do stray because they are missing something in their own marriage. And it is a fact that children do suffer when a marriage breaks up. A true marriage is one where both parties take responsibility when things go wrong.
Yes, I would dearly like my marriage to work and yes, I am very aware that it may not which is why I am focusing on bettering myself so that i can provide a good life for me AND MY CHILDREN if the worst comes to the worst. This is not a contradiction, this is called being realisic.

If anyone comes back with a nasty comment, you will have proved my point.

oh dizzy. it's so hard to read your posts. not for any other reason than i hate to think of what this man has put you through.

marriages can come back from infidelity yes of course they can. when the husband does not have a personality disorder.

He is a clinical narcissist. There is no hope for your relationship. in fact, it's not even a r/s!

Narcissists can't have relationships. They don't have the emotional tools to. When your husband lacks the ability to understand that other human beings are autonomous individuals with thoughts and feelings, how can you honestly talk about your marriage "coming back"? or about a "true marriage"? It's not possible for you to have a true marriage with this person.

Focus on your courses, be good to your children -- you are doing a great job by doing both those things.

But abandon the illusion that your marriage can survive. It really is an illusion. Let go of it, and you will be the better for it. You will have more clarity & will be able to send all your energy in the right direction -- towards your children & yourself alone.

What you're seeing here isn't bitterness, at most it's frustration. you're seeing what you want to see because the truth is painful.

No one has been nasty. There is a difference between truthful and nasty. And we all know the saying about truth hurting.

When you are wrapped up in these situations it is hard to see it objectively, which is why anonymous forums are very helpful to see things as you might not be able to and people can say things that friends might be unable to say because they know they may hurt your feelings in the short term.

And that is not meant to hurt your feelings any more than they obviously are. People on here simply do not want you to be in a loveless, disrespectful relationship when there are alternatives and when life is too short, and also when there is potential fall out for your children. Being on your own is better than being told daily (maybe not explicitly but certainly implicitly) that they are not good enough and they deserve no more.

Dizzy I hope you haven't found anything I wrote nasty.

I too, I have recently realised, am married to a narcissist. The difference is that you are guessing he is and my H has been diagnosed by two ICs as one!

I went on a 'definition' check. One of them: he will declare love very quickly without actually knowing you. Yep. One day (boak).

This is why I agree with your holding pattern strategy. It takes a long time to really get real and really get that they are this emotionally unavailable. It takes this long to incorporate the cheating into your reality and then know that it wasn't your fault. (Charbon said something really helpful the other day, that a lot of the marriage 'problems' are your reactions to him!)

Being married to a narcissist has to be one of the loneliest things. Now that my eyes are opened, he is there, but not there (reading his iPad). It is completely pointless using any Gottman 'bids' because they will be ignored. It is totally pointless trying to raise any issues whatsoever, because they will not be recognised in any way shape or form.

So it is a slow process of getting unmeshed, stopping trying to 'change' or 'reach' him, learning that no one else is responsible for your happiness, developing other facets of your life (professionally, friendship wise, interests). A long time to get over the [rage/feeling so stupid] of being hooked in. It takes a long time to be de-programmed.

If there is anybody else out there who successfully lives with a narcissist, please chip in with your views.

OP my father is a clinical narcissist so i'm not just spouting crap for the sake of it. i will tell you from bitter experience that having a N for a father is soul-destroying in ways you cannot understand until you've lived them.

Everything Abitwobbly says is true. And I don't think you'll find anyone who lives successfully with a N. Unless "success" can mean "barely surviving while my sense of self is inexorably chipped away"

In a relationship with an N, you are completely alone with no hope of them rescuing you. because they just don't know how, and they have no hope of learning how. that's just the way it is. it's not about people being bitter or negative or nasty.

if you can detach from the N and become completely self-sufficient and realistic about how alone you are, you stand a chance of emotional survival. as long as you're mooning over your marriage and making valiant attempts to save it, you are in danger, because there's no way for you to succeed. just no way at all. sorry.

I came on here last year hoping for some insight but was met with mostly angry, bitter (sorry) women.

If you have it in you in time, and you really do want to make your relationship work....forget about whats happened, dont mention this other woman again, just get on with your life, let him see what hes missing,

The above is just part of what you wrote a couple of days ago by way of advice to woahthere whose boyfriend had cheated on her.

You seem to have a thing about 'angry bitter women'. Could this be because it's how you feel inside but are scared of expressing your inner rage at his behaviour?

Play the role of all-understanding mother earth looking down on your 'naughty little boy' by all means, but please don't lose sight of the fact that maintaining a 'holding position' in these circumstances is not dissimilar to having surrendered your personal integrity to appease and placate his ego.

FTR you may have had many years of a rewarding marriage but, by dint of your h's continuing extra marital activities, it has become a sham.

You are worth considerably more than this, honey, and I hope that you'll realise it sooner rather than later.

Marriages are not hard work. Not good ones where you are loved and cherished and respected.

To be in a good marriage adds infinitely to your life. Why settle for so much less?

So, when our partner says to us, 'I love you, but I'm not in love with you', what they are really saying is that they don't have a clue about what love means. That they are trying to say is that they feel 'concern and care' for us but they're 'not turned on by' us or 'excited', or they've allowed their passion to die. They understand the language of FEELINGS but not the requirements of love. Concern and excitement ca be pleasant feelings, but they don't equate to love.

Love is not a feeling we 'get' from being with the right person; its the feelings that come 'from' what we DO to love another person over time and across different life experiences. Love is something we DO, a choice to act, not something we fell. We don't fall in love and then act; we DO love and then feel it.

... Just so we are clear, the pursuit of a soul mate as justification for choosing to have an affair is a desperate attempt to fin what is incomplete and missing in us. It is a pleas for connection, wholeness, and self-validation. It is the experience of feeling alive by using another human being and the fantasy that we are generating as a conduit for a type of legitimacy that no human being can ever actually deliver on, because no relationship possesses what only we can provide for ourselves. Essentially, when we have an affair, we have a legitimate need we are trying to fulfill through an illegitimate mands that will NEVER WORK. It is no accident that [the failure rate is so high]! - Dr Jay Kent Ferraro.

This is a book written by a clinical psychologist who cheated, nearly lost everything and finds infidelity such a toxic scourge that he is committed to talking about it from a man's point of view.

His final message to men, really, is: face the wounds of your past, stop blaming your wife and making excuses and GROW UP! Similar to Frank Pittman, really.

Wow! I wasnt going to be had to have one last word. I have to stand by my angry, bitter women comment unless maybe I am not mn material. When i look at someones thread, I really look at what they are trying to say rather than judge what they are saying. A previous thread someone mentioned where i commented...I saw the ladies original thread as someone who wanted to make her relationship work, if she had said i want to 'get shut' i probably would have told her how. ABITWOBBLY, your posts were definitely not nasty.
The fact is SOME of the ladies on here make huge judgements on a snippet of someones life because they are basing it on their own lives and experiences. I'm sorry but i think its wrong.
I am a middle aged woman who has had to deal with a lot in her life, not just from her marriage. I can assure you that all the things people have mentioned i think about on a daily basis...i am not a silly little girl with her head in the clouds, I am very much living in the real world but I am not going to jump to a decision that affects my whole family. I will think long and hard and make sure the decision i make is the right one when the time is right...i will know when that is. I dont want to have any regrets about whatever decision i make. I am focusing on my own life at the moment and when i have done that I will look at where my marriage is going, if anywhere. Things are fine at the moment and that suits me, my kids are at important stages of their lives with school and are happy and for that i am grateful. If i have to change their lives forever, I will do it when i am absolutely certain their is no other option.

my dear...
i for one am not saying you should walk out the door post haste.

all i am saying is, stop talking about how you just need to become the wife you once were etc. it is not about you. accept that you are living with someone to whom you mean nothing, so that you don't waste any more emotion trying to "save" something that has been an illusion.

you say you don't have your head in the clouds, but your posts indicate that you think you can "save" your marriage. all i am saying is, if you think you can do that, you are in trouble psychologically and emotionally.

i fully understand staying in the house with him and keeping things comfortable in the interim, for both yourself and your children. i think i might do the same in your position.

but
i would certainly not be investing emotion and thought into how to make a narcissist "love" me again.

you should be putting your all time into shielding yourself and your children from H, not in trying fruitlessly to turn his head back to you.

oikopolis. I hear what you are saying but am i right in thinking i should beleive my dh has without doubt NPD just because i read it on here! That really would make me someone with a problem.
As i said before, I would like to try and make my marriage work, not by demeaning myself, just by being myself. I am also keeping my mind open to the possibility of my marriage ending hence the courses.

If anything, some more posts about npd would be very helpful. The things about my dh that stand out are:

1. He likes to make grand gestures (flowers, expensive gifts) to show his love but then can belittle with sarcastic comments in public.
2. He is very charming to people to their faces, but quite scathing behind their backs, almost never has anything nice to say about anyone, even his mum and sister.
3. He doesnt seem to have any boundaries, he told his oldest daughter about his fling which i thought was inapproriate, This girl is his best friends sister, same best friend then told my dh about a good work colleague and my dh promptly poached him...he now doesnt understand why his best friend wont speak to him
4. He has always 'latched' on to people to the point where wants to spend all his time with them, these people have usually been employees and this latest person unfortunately, happens to be female!
5. when he left his main focus seemed to be seeing the kids as much as possible (all the time) even though he had never really spent any time with them. The last time he was so demanding we had to speak via a mediator. since hes been back though he is back to doing nothing with them.

These are all behaviours i am having trouble understanding. Are they qualities of NPD? what other qualities should i be looking for? One of my concerns about breaking up are if he actually does have NPD and how he would be around the children if he did spend more time with them than he ever has. At least at home i can have some say in the way he is with them. Should i be concerned about him being alone with my kids. My ds feels inadequate around his dad anyway because dh does the belittleing thing with him to.