To those who were abused by father/member of family in childhood...

[Allboxedin]

How do you feel about your mum if she is still around and how do you deal with the fact that she never protected you from it if you think she knew?
Do you have any meaningful relationship with her?
I am findingthis really hard. Never really got on with my mum, she is quite annoying at the best of times and generally only talk about herself. If we ever end up having a conversation about the past it is always tunred into how she is suffering rather than listening even when she has asked us to talk about it.
Ok I know it must be hard for her (she is still with my dad) and it must have been but she just doesnt seem to honestly care about anyone else.

I know she wants me and my sisters help and to have a relationship with us but how can we when she is like this? Even when someone else is ill or has a problem somehow iot affects her more than the actual person.
I feel I am talking to a wall when she asks us about things or our opinions.
I just find it so irritating and annoying.
My sister who was abused by my father for many years feels exactly the same.
When she told my mum about it later in her teens she stayed with dad in the hope he would change but he continued. She is still with him but having problems now and seems to think she can rely on us to help her.
I am fine supporting her if she needs it but I don't want to be her crutch. I dont feel she was ever there when we needed her so why should we be?

Thanks allboxedin

i too have depressive episodes but it took me years to admit it. feelings of pointlessness and bleakness. but i also find great joy and meaning in my life.

yes feeling in a bubble is how i feel at the moment. i feel a bit 'unreal' if that makes sense. I speak to people but it feels like a struggle, I feel woolly. I know it will pass and my beloved children are pulling me through

my ds has a cuddly toy seal which he has to look after from school. he dotes on this soft toy, carries it everywhere, makes me set it a place at the table and makes a little bed for it beside his own so he can 'look after it in the night'. such innocence keeps me positive and god my heart could burst with love for him.

Thegreylady - yes that is abuse. my adoptive father was sexually inappropiate but in very subtle ways. I wasn't raped or touched but it was still abuse. How are you doing?

For me the fact that I wasn't protected has always been harder to cope with than the actual abuse.

Told my parents, when I was 13, that mum's brother had repeatedly sexually abused me when I was younger. They practically finished my sentences, said they'd wondered about it in the past. I mean how the actual fuck did they think that would make me feel better?

Because I had told a teacher first (far more helpful than my parents) obviously it went to police. They came round and mum spent the whole time crying about her little brother having a terrible life (parental divorce and being ill with ME - both excuses for being a child abuser apparently). Afterwards she begged me not to go ahead with prosecuting because he wouldn't cope with prison. So I didn't.

It has taken me 11 years - nearly half my life - and lots of MN threads to show me this was not normal. To realise I did deserve better protection from my own parents. I don't have the strength to confront this though, they are all I've got.

Not a helpful post sorry, but I do understand.

fuzzpig, my mum always plays the crying game too when she wants to. Very annoying. Personally hate crying in public probably because we have had to grow thick skinned as kids to be able to deal with this kind of behaviour. In fact I rarely cry. I do get angry though and have punched a few doors although my punches are not hard enough thank God to break the doors!! haha
My mum is so self pitying it makes me really irritated whenever we speak.
How they somehow make our suffering their suffering makes me want to vomit. It's almost like they are the ones hard done by or who were abused.
I mean seriously do these people we call parents ever think about anyone else?

Boglach and it is that innocence we see in our own children that makes it all so much worse.

Hi all

I hope you don't mind me sharing my experiences and where I am with parents now.

My dad was a horrid bully, who terrorised me, my mum and my brother, mum ended up with broken wrists and bruises, as well as the " what are you wearing that for, watching that etc" all designed to run her down. 6 days out of seven I would get a good hiding (I was older than bro and he was golden balls - ok with him now though), on the other days my mums brother used to babysit me and sexually abuse me.
My mum did her best to protect me from dad, although I think it was a reasonably poor attempt when she wanted to leave with me and my brother all her family said that she had made her bed and she needed to lie in it , my dad was also very atriculate and said he would get custody, mum was so downtroden she believed him.
Back to my uncle, I told my parents (just when I was about to get a beating for something from dad) just before my 13th birthday,I was three when it started, I gave a brief description and it was never mentioned again, although half the family fell out with mum and I never saw my uncle again.
My dad finally got his comeuppance when at 17 I flattened him and had to be dragged off, as he was a control freak he left us all and said that we were all dead - mum was much happier.

I finally went to the police about my uncle when I was 22, mum stood by me, gave statements and everything, I think she was going through so much with my dad she just never noticed it, she did say she suggested going to the police, but my dad had convinced her that they would look like bad parents and I would be taken into care - again she believed him, and said so long as it stopped then I would be ok.

Police were convinced my dad knew about the abuse, and my mum now recalls him having extra money after the weekends, the police did believe he could have been making money from it, however when Uncle was taken into custody he never mentioned it, and as there were no laws that many years ago there was nothing we could do regarding my dad anyway.

Uncle got 18 months and 10 years on the sex offenders register which he is still enjoying now.

I will never ever see my dad as long as I live, my mum I'm fine with as she was genuinely scared of my dad and did everything she could to help especially later on, even though all her family disowned her.

Sorry - Thats really long.

areyoumad, of course not. I feel really sad reading your posts like I do the others. How horrible for you and I guess your mum. I am so glad your uncle got what he deserves, even though 18 months really is nothing compared to a lifetime of memories for you. :(

There is something else besides the sexual abuse, my sister wrote that dad used to take her off for hours at night time and make her sit in the car for hours in th freezing cold ect - like your dad and uncle that is cruelty pure and simple like other posters and you have said. Its the terror and fear they instill in you. We constantly lived in fear, we hated when dad came home and would pretend to be asleep when he came to say 'goodnight'

Hi Boxedin, I agree with the pretending to be asleep as well, the things you do to "survive".

If it helps give you any closure, I'm 99% ok with what happened now, and I'm not mega old (29) I do occasionally remember things, but I'm not embarrassed by them or let them eat me up. my DH said I was far better after I reported my uncle to the police, I really did get closure.
I self-harmed, slept around to prove i could have "normal" relationships and drank a lot when I was around 17 to 19ish but I got out off it, and can deal with it now easily (ish).
I think it helps that I am the complete opposite to my mum and because of how she was treated I vowed I'd never be like it.
I agree with an earlier post that said seeking approval constantly, but I've turned this for work and aimed high and it's working, I get recognised at work for the work that I do (in a good way I hope ) and I feel like I really have moved on.

People who don't get it usually look amazed when I say I will never see my dad ever again, even if he's on his death bed - tough, I'm not seeing him so he can get closure, but that's usually from people who haven't really had any experience of issues similar to what most on here have gone through.

I think sometimes this denial that many of us live with is worst than the abuse, I can't remember every feeling secure or loved and the abuse just compounded that worthlessness, I am in a place of acceptance now, but when I think back over the years and how I punished myself, what I missed, what was taken from me, it makes me so so sad and I don't think I will ever feel worthwhile, it's almost as if... Well... Your own mother doesn't love or care about you enough to prevent this, or even believe you you just must be the worst kind of person... And it gets worst when you have a child and you know what it feels like to be connected and maternal and protective and loving, it makes it all the more lonely

But... I also know its not me, I can't be an awful person because I feel the way I am supposed to about my child, I'm the cliche you read about, mother protector, mother love, completely and appropriately in life with my daughter.

I almost feel sorry my mother didn't feel that way, almost but not enough to ever really forgive her, no matter how accepting I am now about the past.

antsy you sound lovely, you are not the worst kind of person, it's so awful that the people who are supposed to care for you can inflict so much pain.

When I went to the police, I said one of the reasons it took me so long was because I was scared that they would think I was an abuser because the cycle is the abused becomes the abuser - the lovely liaison police lady looked straight at me and said " you will not abuse, because you recognise the cycle and have broken it, the people who abuse are the ones that cannot accept anything wrong happened to them and normalise it even into adulthood, and then they start the cycle" I might be paraphrasing a bit there, but it was like a lightbulb exploding in my head.

Absolutely right, it is the denial and the silence that does the damage.

I drowned out the memories and alterred my mood with alcohol and am now fortunately recovering from that, but the memories have resurfaced.

I am trying to put things right myself, with my inner child, and put a lid back on it without having to resort to drinking again.

The anger at my DM, rather than the abuser, who has been dead for many years, is hard to manage. She did stop the abuse, but by avoidance rather than outing him, he was still part of our lives for a long time after the abuse stopped - I can see now how confusing and frightening that was for me as a child and explains a lot of my personality traits and behaviours. What I find very hard is that perfectly natural responses such as withdrawal, anxiety, food issues, rage etc were not acknowledged or addressed by my M, rather I was made to feel guilty about being a 'difficult' child and adolescent.

Thank you allboxedin for this thread it has come at just the right time for me.

Thanks areyoumad, I love your positivity.

I agree about abusers and how that rules and dictates their lives, I am someone who needs to understand, I have worked with people who worked in the sex trade (not a good time in my life) and have spent a lot of time reading articles, abusers words, understanding their behaviours, and I think in some ways I am empathic about the journey a person has to have had to ten out to be a child abuser.

But the one thing I have never been able to understand is the sheer lack of care and concern that the parents had shown on this thread alone.

Even when I did disclose what happened to me to people I was met with judgment, I felt like just getting the disclaimer out of the way.

"yes I know I should have reported him, yes I realise he may well have gone on to abuse other children"

But I'm strong enough to know that his actions past or future were not and are not my responsibility, I was a child who lacked the power and support to protect myself, it was not down to me to protect others.

I know I am not a 'normal' person, I don't have the same reactions as other people, I don't feel the same way other people feel, but what I do have going for me is the ability to understand this and embrace it rather than castigate myself for it.

And I did that all myself, no-one ever cared enough to help, my child will never feel that abandonment, and I know she will never know what it feels like, it keeps me going and not dwelling, which is all we really can do

Bproud.

I know how you feel, for a long time I just wanted to feel something other than self loathing, but I didn't know what appropriate emotions looked like, I was faced with complete disregard or extreme accusatory anger, there was no calm or stability, all you can do is piece yourself back together xxx

op a girl i know was abused by her step dad, and things have not gone well for her. Now I am older and wiser i do wonder of her mother (deceased) knew about it. she must have somehow ? i do feel anger towards her mother

i can also imagine that whilst its easy to type " report him to the police", in reality its far from easy

so good luck to you, and i hope you manage to carve a happy life

areyoumad

well done, brave brave girl

sorry for barging into this thread btw, i thought it was in aibu

lol porcamiseria about the barging

I don't think I'm brave, just hopefully offering another perspective for people who have been through similar, it's tough being in that place, and I know not everyone can get out of it, but hopefully by seeing that some people can it helps!

I also agree the report him to the police bit was one of the most difficult decisions I have ever made, it's not easy, within a few hours a lot of people know some things that you never even wanted to admit yourself, for me it worked, for others it doesn't/won't.

I really must take myself and my cold to bed now, but I won't sleep with a snotty nose so keep getting wrapped up in mumsnet.

Don't be embarrassed por, I believe there are many cases where a mum may not know, but I think over long periods of time there must be signs you would be neglectful to miss, abuse hurts and changes a child, but then I also think if you had been abused yourself, it makes you vigilant to the signs, or worst, left thinking it is normality.

My situation was slightly different, as it was my older brother who abused me. I was 9.

It all came out about 2 years ago. My brother phoned me to admit to me and the rest of the family why he and his ex-wife split up. It was because he had abused his own daughter when she was 4. I then confronted him about what he did to me. My Mum and sisters were trying to make excuses for him and saying what he did to his daughter was a one off stupid mistake, so I made him tell them about what he did to me, so they knew what an evil bas he really is/was.

When he first admitted what he had done to his daughter, I just broke down competely and made an appointment at the Doctors the following morning and got myself booked in for some counselling. It was finally time to open up pandora's box and talk about it all.

My Mum did intially offer support and she really didn't have a clue that it had gone on, but it was her reaction and my sisters afterwards that has really made me angry. My Mum still see's him and even has him staying at her house. One of my sisters went on holiday with him recently and my other sister see's him now and again. When I spoke to my Mum about her still seeing him - she just said that he is my son and I love him. I told her that as far as I was concerned, he was dead. She responded to that by making comments everytime I saw her about what he was doing and how proud she was of him. I responded by telling her very clearly that her son was a nonce and I didn't want anything more to do with her.

I also only bother with my sisters for the sake of my son, as he loves his Aunts to bits. I have made it very clear to both of them that they must never, ever mention his name infront of my son.

I did feel really let down by my Mum and sisters because if it had been one of my sisters he had abused, I would have chopped his b**ls off, made him eat them and never spoken to him again.

Once I made the decision to distance myself from them all, I felt so less stressed about it all. I now just get on with my life with my lovely DS.

I don't and have never suffered from depression through any of this (have been very lucky) but it has left me with a big distrust of people. I am a real control freak and along with this comes the need for total order and planning in my life.

The saddest thing that came out of all this, was how I reacted to my DS when he was a baby. I felt very unconfortable touching him when I changed his nappy and it took me a long time before it felt normal to kiss him on the lips. I was always totally paranoid that I could abuse him because of what happened to me. I got over this with counselling and now spend all my time hugging and kssing him (he is 6). I still worry about him becoming the victim of abuse, so I stay single and would not live with anyone or get married again until he is a lot older. To be honest, I am very happy on my own and I don't think there is anyone out there that would put up with my need to have control over my life and my quirky OCD habits lol.

All the ladies on here who have suffered at the hands of an abuser, should be applauded for being strong, confident, fantastic women. All wonderful survivors.

Each situation is different and how we react to those situations is diffrent. For me, not having contact with my Mum was the best thing I did.

Hello ladies. I have not personally experienced childhood abuse, but I work with those who have, so if you don't mind I will share what I know with you.

Abusers and their enablers don't just abuse, they pass the shame of abusing onto their victims. It is this that allows them to continue.

They also pass the responsibility for the family's "happiness" onto the victim.

As some of you have said, the silence and denial is just as bad as the abuse. The silence, denial and pretence is abuse. You are forced to collude with your abuser and they abdicate responsibility. Once again, you are made to take responsibility and bear their shame.
They do deliberately mess with your head. They do this to protect themselves.
They are manipulative to the core. When the abuse is taking place, they are manipulating their child's love. As time goes on they use the victims love for other members of the family, their age, their health, the victim's fear of embarassment, social or cultural expectations and the victim's mistakes to protect themselves.
They portray themselves as victims and make they real victim feel guilty.

They have taken so much from you. And they continue to do so.
You are now adults and you do not have to be their victim forever. Their are ways you can heal.

You can cut them off, stop them taking anymore from you.

You can stop them from forcing you to protect them and instead report them to the police.

You can now be the adult that you wished would save you when you were a child.

I know that it is hard and if you do keep contact with them, understand that you are not to blame for anything that was done to you and try as much as possible to make whatever relationship you have be on your terms. Be firm with your boundaries as they know you, know how to manipulate you and have been doing it for all your life.

Bproud and thanks for sharing. Its scary how everything we are sharing is so similar.
porc, I can't say for sure as I wasn't in my mums position, yes it must be scary and remember it was 1980's I guess most of us were children in not 2012. The only thing I can say is that my mum did have lots of close friends and she would have had support I am sure of that. I think she just chose denial. Glad you barged in there! :)
My baby girl has just done an explosive poop so must go change her, then I wil come back and read the rest! :)

Lucy thanks for being so honest, I felt the same and still do sometimes when changing them and I don't like them running around naked or anyone else changing them ect. Its really sad, like we are hyper sensitive to it and it shoudlnt be that way. You sound a bit like my DH!! It can be difficult to live with but it is possible!!
Dione thanks for that. Always made to feel guilty and so true about how the abuser portrays themselves as the victim. It used to be 'but you don't show any love,emotion, you don't love me, why don't you ever hug me ect...'
I was at 32 still being manipulated by them both, until 4 months ago when I stopped speaking to me dad. I was always trying to be peacemaker and sweep things under the carpet pretending we had all got over it and dad had changed ect. He hadn't because when I took my daughter down there he kept wanting to bath her. Why would a grandad keep on about bathing his grandaughter? I didn't allow it and my eldest d has only been there 3 x, he has never seen dd2, maybe he never will.
I used to pretend I was being the strong one, I had forgiven them all and moved on ect................since, I have realised how much anger I have stored up and bitterness that I had just ignored.

Dione, I wonder if you had any experience of talking to the partners of the abusers and how you see them in all of this?

Good morning Allboxedin, I don't have much time this morning, but I wanted to reply to your post.

I have only dealt with one partner of an abuser, and one mother. Both immediately reported the abuse to the police when they discovered what was going on. Neither were enablers. What I posted above applies equally to enablers as abusers. They are just as selfish, manipulative and abusive. They work only to serve their own interests. They reinforce the victim's shame and responsibility to avoid taking responsibility themselves. This is a massive burden for the victim to carry.

Think of how different it would have been for you if your mother had stopped the abuse, put her arms around you, told you she loved you and would protect you. She didnt do this because she liked what she had and wanted to protect it. She sacrificed you to meet her own needs, just as the abuser did.

So well put Dione - thanks for sparing your time :)

thank you all
I think I am fine now it was so long ago but....
I wish it hadn't happened :(