To those who were abused by father/member of family in childhood...

[Allboxedin]

How do you feel about your mum if she is still around and how do you deal with the fact that she never protected you from it if you think she knew?
Do you have any meaningful relationship with her?
I am findingthis really hard. Never really got on with my mum, she is quite annoying at the best of times and generally only talk about herself. If we ever end up having a conversation about the past it is always tunred into how she is suffering rather than listening even when she has asked us to talk about it.
Ok I know it must be hard for her (she is still with my dad) and it must have been but she just doesnt seem to honestly care about anyone else.

I know she wants me and my sisters help and to have a relationship with us but how can we when she is like this? Even when someone else is ill or has a problem somehow iot affects her more than the actual person.
I feel I am talking to a wall when she asks us about things or our opinions.
I just find it so irritating and annoying.
My sister who was abused by my father for many years feels exactly the same.
When she told my mum about it later in her teens she stayed with dad in the hope he would change but he continued. She is still with him but having problems now and seems to think she can rely on us to help her.
I am fine supporting her if she needs it but I don't want to be her crutch. I dont feel she was ever there when we needed her so why should we be?

I'm not a saint , I'm damaged, beyond repair, but I see the damage that toxic parents do to their children and know that I am high risk of being one because of what I have been through, so I have made a proactive decision to not do it.

When my gran passes I will have no reason to keep in touch with any of my family, and I doubt I will, I am so alienated from them, the only thing that makes my relationship with my mother bearable is her live for my daughter.

I think I may be selfish to go nc when I am able, but I think this needs to be a time when I am selfish, but I want it all to be on my terms with me having the power to decide.

*love

Yup. It's hard. But it gets easier lovely.

You love your daughter (gorgeous picture of her on your profile btw) and you are being very strong allowing her to know her relatives.

She will understand what a hardship this has been for you when she is old enough.

You personally still owe then fuck all though.

If it wasn't his illness it would be something else that was used as an excuse for her staying, don't fall for it.
It will take a lot of sympathy, patience and time I think for you to heal and chances are there will always be some niggling issues, however, others have healed so there is hope.

I don't want to be blatant here and am trying to be very tactful so bear with me but, really, what your dad did was stomach-churning and how any woman could bear to be near to a man like that makes me shudder.

Your mother sounds extremely selfish. My work has shown me that mothers like her do exist (across all classes and income groups), though, so I believe your account 100% plus some. They're despicable, cowardly, selfish women.

She knew, believe me. I genuinely believe that you will be better off leaving them to it. I know that children can forgive their parents things, but this is beyond forgiveness. Frankly, the pair of them are two good reasons to bring back the death penalty and I am largely a liberal!
Get help and I hope things improve for you.

One more thing: I imagine that you've had internal dialogue along the lines of : 'Is she really to blame?'. Well, try to look at it this way:

I'm walking down the street. A speeding driver comes along and knocks over the pedestrian leaving them badly injured and lying in the middle of the road. The driver does not stop and drives into the distance.

I am a reasonably intelligent adult and can communicate to others. I've even got a mobile phone that is charged and full of credit. I choose, though, not to dial 999 and just walk on.

Now I am not to blame for the person being injured, but I am sure as anything guilty of not doing anything to help. That would be the opinion of the vast majority of people.

Your mum is guilty of not intervening, because she knew what this man was capable of and did nothing to stop it.

Thankyou Amazon, antsy and Harriet. I totally agree with you unlikely and it all plays into the guilt trip game when they are old or ill like my dad is doing now. I feel the same, I have to keep tellingmyself that I dont OWE them anything. They were the adults, we were the children and they never did their job. The fear inside us and all those other emotions because we had no one else to go to all comes back from time to time.
It is good to talk to you about it and I am sorry some of you had to libe through that hell and have had to make it out the other side alone.
One of the most damaging aspects about it too is when you think the people you trust don't believe you or shake it off and forget about it. Then your trust has been shattered all over again like pouring salt in open wounds.

Thanks clic, In my heart I believe what you are saying is true. I don't see how she could not have as it was going on for years under her nose. (11 years)Even we as children knew that what was happening was not right. We hated being at home. I always have these conversations with myself, trying to reason ect and that is a good example. The anger I feel inside towards her did not come from nowhere, it's always been there. I take it you work in this area, so it is interesting you say that this is not uncommon.
If you someone is really sorry, even if they can't tell you to your face, you would know wouldn't you?
Dad never abused her. he was actually very good to her. As far as I am concerned she had it pretty easy. He had to keep his name and hers in tact because of his profession.

I meant to continue in saying that now that he is ill he is very bad temepered and she is having a hard time at home now which is why she wants to leave. (and my brother confirmed that my dad is being very mean to her)
But back then it's not as if she was some poor incapable woman. She was very capable, she had friends and support if she had ever wanted to take action.

I don't work directly with victims of abuse, but let us just say that my job takes me into contact with people who have suffered such as yourself and leave it at that. I'm not a trained counsellor of people who have been abused. You need a professional in that area to help you and I hope you find one.

I do see that people like your mother exist. It seems to me that such women are ultra selfish and lack the mothering instinct for some reason. It's no surprise that he was very good to her. He provided a good life for her and she was willing to sacrifice her daughters in order to get that good life.

I can't see such a person being worthy of your time. Or anybody else's. You know sometimes the excuse/reason is 'that she was frightened of him, too'. From what you say, that is not the case here. I believe she acted (or, rather, did not act) out of self-interest and selfishness. I hope you get some kind of closure about all of this. Unmumsnetty hugs to you.

It's not quite the same situation, but a friend of my parents' sexually abused me when I was a child. I told my mother when I was 18 and the way she reacted told me straight away that she knew all along. She wasn't shocked, at all, and she didn't ask who it was, she just knew. Looking back I realised that she was actually complicit in the abuse, not in the sense that she wanted me to be abused but in the sense that she should have known that a man wanting to bathe a young child (against my will, may I add) was suspicious and yet she did nothing to stop it, in fact she insisted I let him (to save her the hassle, that's all I ever was to her, hassle). When I told her about it she told me I should just get over it, that I was not to tell my dad (who I am positive knows nothing about it) and that I was trying to make her feel guilty.

For years I made excuses for her. She had a very tough childhood, and had to work her fingers to the bone when we were young as my dad was unemployed and a bit feckless. But, having been honest with myself about the whole thing, I now realise I blame her for the abuse far more than I blame the actual abuser. I am far angrier at her than I am at him. It was her job to protect me, and if she failed in that, which anyone can, then it was her job to help me come to terms with it. In both situations she just didn't bother.

I am still in contact with her but as she lives in a different country I don't see her very often. Moving away from her was the best thing I ever did. I spent my entire childhood and right up to my early twenties trying to make her care about me, but finally I realised that all she cares about is herself. Strangely, I would also call her childlike, in the same sense that another poster called her mother childlike. It's like she has the practical capability of an adult (holds down a very responsible job, can run a household extremely well) but the emotional intelligence of a nine or ten year old. As other posters have said, my anger towards her has only increased since I had my DS and realised the love that a true mother feels.

She isn't my mother, not really. If she died tomorrow I don't think I would feel anything other than regret that I didn't tell her exactly what I thought of her. I hold back from that for the sake of my wonderful little sister who still lives at home.

Once my sister leaves home I will still see my mother a couple of times a year so that DS can have some sort of relationship with her. She is a good grandmother. But if she gets ill or needs help there is no way I will do anything for her, she can rot.

It's so hard. My mother emotionally abused me and my father ignored it (and basically me for my entire childhood.)

I have an uneasy relationship with both of them now - my mother had/has severe but undiagnosed mental health problems and I honestly don't think she had any idea what she was doing. I can almost forgive her more than I can do my father because he just stood by and let it happen.

If I had the strength I'd cut them both off, but actually I feel a bit sorry for them so I don't.

Understand why it's so difficult for you though.

Arg, how annoying. I just wrote a long post and lost it. How annoying is that!!

In short, We had the same bath saga Cailin up until we were well into our teens. Mum knew we hated having baths with dad but we still had to. Its not normal and nor should any mum think it normal but she let all that by the way. She knew my dad took my sister out alone in the car at night for hours at night time, she knew how my dad spoke to us and abused us emotionally and 'disciplined' us constantly. I never remember being hugged or told that I was loved.
I have felt sorry for them and tried to stay in their good books for years too until before christmas when my sister wrote a letter explaining in detail what had been happening. I wasnt surprised, I was just very sad for her a) because I had not been able to help her even though I was just a child and b) because she nor us had never had a sorry or been made to feel that our parents lived in regret. I stopped all contact then, not really for myself but for my sister because I felt a strong sense that that was the least I could do for her and to make a stand.

Allboxedin, like you I was never hugged or told I was loved. I did extremely well at school - I actually won awards for having top marks in the city and county in some of my exams - and yet neither of my parents ever said "Wow, well done, that's amazing!" In fact my parents weren't even there on the day I got my exam results - they booked a holiday that coincided with results day, despite knowing full well when it was. I can't remember what their feeble excuse was for that. The thing is, if you asked my mother what kind of parent she was I'm sure she would proudly say she did a good job. If I brought up about the exams she would make out I was "too sensitive" and just fob me off.

I am hesitant to say it, but I think in a police investigation your mother would be classed as abusive Allboxed. Knowing abuse is going on and facilitating it is only one step away from actually committing the abuse. It really is hard to believe a mother would let that sort of thing go on right under her nose and do absolutely nothing to stop it.

I am reading this thread with great interest - and a great deal of relief and reassurance. Just over a year ago, my DS told me he was being abused by a family member. I believed him and reported it to the policeman. It split the family in half with some believing my DS and some believing the abuser who denied everything. It eventually went to court and the abuser pleaded guilty and is now in prison. Although most of the family have accepted that the abuse took place, there are still some who will have nothing to do with us because they believe I was wrong to report it, that we should have dealt with it in the family (in other words, just ignored it).

Reading the experiences on this thread reassures me that I did the right thing for my DS.

Sorry I am only just returning to the thread OP.

I did go for counselling last year, mainly wanting to talk about my abuse, butmy counsellor seemed to want me to skip over that part and I never got to discuss it. I'd like some counselling again at some point but I reckon I'd have to pay for for it to get one willing to give me time (last one was an nhs referral and a bit pointless).

How interesting that I'm not the only one with a 'childlike' mother. Mine holds down a job (although I get the impression only just). Every year or two she has some kind of breakdown or emotional crisis in a WOE IS ME kind of way. She seems to have no awareness sometimes of what she's saying sometimes, then at other times can be very emotionally manipulative. My relationship with her is very much on my terms and at arms length.

When I was 18 my half/step sister (dad remarried a single mum and adopted her daughter but not her son ) told my step mum what he'd been doing to her. It was reported to the police and I pressed charges too. He was found guilty but didn't serve any jail time. My step mum took him back into her house with her DD. He was put on the sex offenders register for 10 yrs but kept his job, his home, his 2nd family.

Wow sorry for all that rambling.

I think you were right to cut contact AllBoxedIn, and think you should hold firm on it. Have you thought about what your mum will do when he dies. My bet is that then she will be remorseful, want to rebuild your relationship, see her dgs, etc. Because he will no longer be there and for that reason only. Keep your distance you need to put yourself first.

You did absolutely the right thing Incognito. I'm so sorry to hear your DS was abused. It is a horrible thing to have to deal with. In time, with help, he will put it behind him. The abuse I suffered doesn't affect me any more at all really - I can talk about it without it upsetting me. What does upset me is my mother's reaction - in fact, as I said earlier, it is worse in many ways than the abuse itself. You have done a massively brave and healing thing for your son by taking action, and it will go a long long way to helping him deal with it.

Incognito, You did. I and everyone else in my position would have longed to have had our mums do that for us. You have saved a relationship with your son and I hope that he will always treasure what you did for him. I have also read up a little bit on this kind of abuser and it seems they nearly always deny it or minimalise/trivialise what happened - correct me if I am wrong.
My dad trivialised it about what happened to my sister but he absolutely denied what he did a couple of times to me which came out just a couple of months ago. He says I am slandering him!
Bored, I think that i precisely what anyone needs having dealt with this. I have never really been able to talk it all through with anyone and so it builds up doesnt it? It is expensive though I know. It makes me really angry that we have to pay for something because of what other people have done as well!! I know some are ordered to pay for councelling if they are found guilty which should be the case. My sister had some a few years ago and recently went to someone else but says they weren't much help either so I guess its a case of who you find and how much you have to spend on it. There really is a need for this type of councelling.

Allboxed in - what a difficult position you are in. I completely agree with you that it is wrong that counselling for this is hardly provided in any area via the NHS. I'm sorry to hear from boredandrestless too that her counsellor skipped over it. I suspect this is because the counsellor had no training in the area, but they should have said so otherwise they just replicate sweeping it under the carpet. I actually have wondered if Mumsnet would launch a campaign about providing counselling for those who, as you said, have suffered through absolutely no fault of their own and have been failed by a society who could not look after them.
There are some excellent volunteer organisations though and charities, have you looked at www.napac.org.uk/ to see what might be available in your area?

I had to post as I have been there. I was abused by my Stepfather from 11 until 16 years old. I initially maintained a relationship with my mother through my twenties despite us all knowing what had happened. She remained married to him at this time.
but once I had my DD I realised I had to confront what had actually happened to me with my mother. I couldn't have someone like him near my daughter. When confronting my mother about what he did, she basically said she didn't believe me. I took the decision to cut all contact from her. The reason being what mother would allow such a thing to happen to her daughter and stay with the man who did it.
It's been hard and I hate myself for not letting her see her grandchildren but at the same time , I have to protect them. Becoming a parent yourself changes things hugely and I still have trouble understanding why she didn't protect me.
I did state to her that I was thinking of going to the police, but she begged me in an e mail not to. As 'he is my rock'....WTF....!
She is still married to this man so good luck to her. She does know what he did, but it is clearly to hard for her to acknowledge it.
I hope this helps.
PM me if you need to xxxxxxx

That would be good eurostar. I think we would find many with similar experiences unfortunatly.There are some great websites including the one above with lots of advice and info but I havent been able to find one to one help in my area. I am in London so I guess it would be more difficult anyway. I think a lot of the similar orgs are also for children and women who are still in or just come out of abuse rather than needing help further down the line iyswim?

Just to add I hate not having my mother around, but at the same time it's almost a relief not having to pretend everything is okay with our relationship. Xx

This topic has been preying on my mind all day and the more I think about it the angrier I feel. How can someone stand by when their child, no matter their age, tells them they have been abused, how can they say they don't believe them. I will never understand that, ever.

I just think you are all amazing, especially you incognito, if I had had a mother like you I wouldn't have been as damaged as I am now.

I am glad you are nc with him abi, he is a disgusting pervert and I don't know how your mother can even look at him

lady sorry your mum is so closed to that. I still do not understand why these mothers think their own flesh and blood would lie about things like this.
Thing is, the people who are rolled up in all this are such good liars aren't they? They have to be to do what they are doing without getting caught.
Yours and the other mums on here are going to regret this one day when they have no one left but themselves to contend with.

Lady, you have made the best decision, her 'rock' is a child abuser and she chooses to stay with that knowledge, not only does she not deserve to have the joy grandchildren can bring, but they would never be safe.