Can very emotionally intimate friendships divert energy away from a romantic relationship?

[equallyuneasy]

A variant on the 'can men and women ever be friends' but casting the circle of debate a little wider.

I'm currently with someone who has quite a few very close friends. In the past they have had someone break up with them in part because of these close friendships. But their last serious partner before me was fine with it. So I feel a bit weird with not being okay with it, but it feels like the friendships (there is no one in particular which bothers me more than others) are so all-consuming and private that I'm left feeling as though all of their emotional energy is going on these people and I don't get much after all that.

I've always been of the type that when I'm in a relationship, that takes precedence, albeit slight precedence or a major one, depending on how long/involved it is. I'm very self sufficient myself and don't have many close friends, I don't really feel I need it though I have good friends and acquaintances and enjoy spending time with them. I know a lot of you who have weathered affairs really rate Shirley Glass's book, and I found the following quote really thought provoking:
A healthy couple builds a wall around their relationship, keeping it exclusive. During an affair, the offending partner opens a window and lets someone else in, eventually walling out the spouse.

Basically my partners behaviour is making me uncomfortable and I don't know what to do. I have a feeling they are unsuited to me, but can't tell if they're also being unfair. They've expressed a lifelong and strong interest in polyamory as as well which is NOT my scene, though said when we started going out that they were over that now and after trying it realized it wasn't for them.

I'm not trying to be drip feeding and I'm a regular who's namechanged for this post, I'm a woman and the person I'm seeing is a male to female transsexual in the middle of going through a gender transition, so a lot of this is about feeling insecure about what gender of person they'll be interested in, in a few months or years - they are bisexual. I'm straight and keen on monogamy. It's really messing with my head and I can't tell any more what issues are related to what, but I'd appreciate advice on the friendships thing because I figured I'd start by working out if either one of us is being an idiot or if we're just unsuited. Ta.

Errm, anyone? Bit desperate here and don't know what to do.

Is there actually the threat of your partner becoming sexually involved with one or more of this group of friends, or is it just about the emotional connection? If the former - well, if they are likely to have an affair they are misunderstanding polyamory, which is categorically NOT cheating. (I still couldn't personally cope with it, but don't have a moral issue, just a knowledge of my and OH's boundaries!)

If the latter, the question to ask yourself is where your partner's priorities lie. Do they routinely put these friends before you in terms of priority? My partner and last two exes both maintain friendships where sex is for various reasons not likely to happen, but these still bother(ed - am clearly no longer bothered by what exes do, and things have calmed down a bit with OH) me because of the sense that certain people MUST come first on any occasion where there is a question over it. For example, I'd be ok with my partner skipping some fun activity we had planned because a friend had a dire emergency, as long as he'd skip fun times with that person if I had an emergency. How does your partner respond when there is a question over priorities? Do they judge each case on its own merits, or is there a reflex that '[friend] NEEDS me!' regardless of whether the friend needs a lift to the hospital or a night on the tiles and of what plans the two of you have together?

You are a straight woman in a relationship with a m to f transexual? I'd say that's a big issue right there! When she is fully transitioned she will be a woman. In fact she is already. Add to that the fact that she is into polyamory and you aren't, I think the friends issue is the least of your worries (though it is a worry) are her friends also trans? There is something very bonding and exclusive about being an oppressed minority. It may be hard for you as a cis straight woman to be trusted or accepted.

I really have no experience of what you are going through but didn't want to leave your post unanswered.

If a third party is taking emotional energy that should be given to the partner and causing them to be treated in a lesser way than they should be in an equal relationship then I don't think the relationship is healthy. Only you can decide what is an acceptable limit and that is different for everyone.

A frank and open talk to your partner about how this makes you feel and what can you do between you to make it better is probably the best way to go.

It is hard as you are the new person on the scene if that makes sense however if your partner is committing to you then they are committing to you and they have to know how you feel and if the relationship with you means enough for them to modify their behaviour or if the relationship with their friend is more important.

I know it isn't the biggest thing in a relationship however if you are straight then are you going to fancy this person once they have boobs and a fanny rather than abs and a willy?

Hope that makes some sense

Thanks for responding, Quacks :)
It's more the latter kind of thing. We're in a long distance relationship (a few hours drive, but with me a lone parent it still seems like a hassle in terms of spontaneity), so a lot of the time I have felt a bit 'Oh you phoned so and so up but you couldn't be arsed to call me, eh?' and similar stuff like that. A lot of these friends are also long distance because my partner moved to a new area shortly before we met.
Many of these friends are of very long standing and share memories and things in common with DP that I never will, and coupled with the fact that DP say she 'doesn't do facebook relationship statuses' I'm often left feeling like there is no point trying to be close because I'll only ever get some of this person, and not much more.
There's quite a big age gap (I'm a lot younger) so I just feel stupid and out of the loop a lot of the time, which doesn't help build closeness when we are far apart. I sometimes wonder what with the FB thing above whether I'm being taken for a mug, but DP says she has always been faithful to partners and I have no reason to doubt that. I just feel a bit peripheral and like throwing in the towel, there is so much wrong and not a lot right apart from loving each other. We've split up twice already in five and a bit months and have just got back together for the third 'go' at things. I guess I'm doubting the sense of that choice a bit - it's all drama drama drama and I just don't need this right now :(

I might not be able to check back until later tonight but I would still really appreciate any and all responses, even those telling me I'm a twat or to pull myself together. I just don't know what to do for the best.

Ohh, x posted with the lot of you. Great food for thought there, thank you all very much. I will hop back later. :)

Have i got this right? You are a straight female. You are in a long distance relationship with a man who is currently in the process of becoming a woman?

You've been together for less than 6 months and have split up and got back together 3 times.

I think your partners close friendships are the least of your worries tbh.

I could be misunderstanding but when your partner becomes fully female (sorry, can't think of a better expression ) then will you class yourself as gay/bisexual?

Anyway, it doesn't really matter. To me, simply the fact that you're on your third attempt at this relationship already is a big indicator that it's not ever in a million years going to work out and I'd say walk away now before you invest any more time or emotion.

I agree with TET.
At 5 months you should be still loved up and starry eyed and it sounds as though this relationship is just hard work. What does your partner give you that makes it worth all that travelling and self doubt?

Don't you deserve someone whole hearted and enthusiastic who will put you first? Why are you settling for less?

Too much trouble. Call it a day now Sorry

This is really not much of a relationship. You should be in the honeymoon phase at 5-6 months, and at least until 12-18 months, if not slightly longer.

It really doesn't sound like there's a lot available for you in this relationship. M2F transsexual, who is long-distance, has many close friends that take precedence over you, doesn't appear willing to acknowledge you publicly, waffles on about polyamory... etc...

tbh your titular question is a bit of a red herring, i think. this isn't really about friendships, there is an awful lot of other stuff happening in this situation that makes it sound incredibly unsuitable. Can you not perhaps cut your losses and move on from this particular r/s?

oh sweetheart. you're young, straight, a single parent with responsibilities for your ds.... why put yourself through all this shit with someone who is much older / lives miles away / makes you feel insecure / is going through the most fundamental upheaval and identity change etc etc. from what you write it doesn't sound much fun quite frankly.

OP please come back and explain why you are a straight woman, in a relationship wth a transexual who will - sooner of later- be a woman.

This doesn't make sense.

Do you want to continue the relationship with a woman when you aren't gay yourself?

And surely, unless they are bi, they'll want a man?

From where I stand, you don't have a partner, or a relationship.

This person you refer to as "she" sees you as one of their many friends. That's all.
Sorry- but you need to fact facts.

Maybe OP loves this person (who does appear to be bi going on the first post - and if they weren't why would they necessarily not go from being a straight male to a gay female?) enough to at least try to cope with them becoming the 'wrong' gender. I am bi so can't pretend to understand the issue, but I'm guessing it is something like that. If the first post contained any sign of a nice healthy relationship I'd be the first to congratulate her for her commitment to her partner - fear of losing the love of your life is an inhibiting factor when considering coming out about gender changes. However, the way the partner is behaving suggests that they don't entirely deserve that level of commitment!

Thanks for all the responses! Have to go to bed in a minute but just wanted to reply to a few before I do.

The trans thing is an issue in that I am primarily attracted to men and have only ever dated men thus far. I met this person when they were just on the cusp of transitioning (i.e still a man) and they are now living as a woman, which I accept. I still really fancy them thus far . I see sexuality as a spectrum and also believe we fall in love with people first and foremost, and not their gender. However, there are things I miss about male-ness and I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a little unsure. She knows this and is okay with it..

We are most definitely in a romantic relationship as it has been verbally agreed, we are both in love and have agreed to be monogamous. All this has been said and not just implied or inferred. However, we obviously have different ideas about what being in a relationship actually entails and I'm struggling with the results of this.

I have a history of going on with fixer-uppers, people who are 'hard work' and who give little in return for me turning my life upside down to accommodate THEIR needs. I had hoped this one was different at the start despite the transgender thing, because I thought about it very carefully before starting to date, and was alright with the idea of it. I thought I was sorted when I made that choice because I had picked someone who appeared to be mentally healthy and very loving; a good bet compared to my previous partners. I'd also been really hurt by a man and the idea of a woman was positive, something I equated with safety and nurturing. The bastard who broke my heart before was enough to turn anyone into a lesbian. However, I'm now thinking that my very act of passing over the seriousness of the trans issue and any other issues - points to a deeper sense of not 'deserving' a more peaceful equal relationship that I obviously still feel.

Just writing all this down and getting different opinions is really helping. You lot don't pull any punches but sometimes the cold hard truth is good to read. The people I know are too close to the situation to be totally unbiased. I've also got this thing where if the person I'm dating seems unbothered by something, I assume it must be okay - in other words, allowing them to decide my boundaries instead of doing it myself. I think that comes from childhood and having my boundaries decided by my mum instead of being given the chance to practice setting my own. It's really biting me in the bum now and I'm aghast at what a messy situation I've got myself into. Again :(
Thanks again for all the helpful advice. She's visiting tomorrow for a day or two so I'll keep you posted.

allowing them to decide my boundaries instead of doing it myself

I think this is the absolute crux of the issue.

Waffle-free reply: If you desire monogamy and you're with somebody who doesn't, you're incompatible. The other issues are just decoration; you cannot make each other happy.

Waffly bit: I'm making good progress with my boundaries, I think, but only recently realised that I've still been taking other people at their own evaluation. That leads to allowing them to draw boundaries in your life, too. The sensible thing is to assess each person & situation from your own point of view - first and foremost.

I've had a lot of inter/trans/cross/sexual/dressing friends, many of them close. Like you, I'm aware of sexuality as a continuum and this isn't particularly to do with my boundary issues. The fact that I had such rapport with so many not-normal people, though, is. With hindsight, it seems obvious that my fragile sense of identity found its echoes in those whose outward identity is flexible or changed. It explains so many things, like the humour and shared obsessions.

Sounds as though you could do with getting to know yourself a lot better. If you can find a therapist for guidance, so much the better. I'm sorry not to tell you what you want to hear. But I think you'll like yourself a lot: just put that effort into a really good relationship with you!

Thanks garlic, I think you're spot on :) I really wish I could afford therapy. I think it would help me. I'm not sure that 6 sessions of counselling and sympathetic nodding on the NHS would do much good or I'd go for that, though at this point I'm kind of open even to that. But I totally identify with the 'taking people at their own evaluation' thing - yes yes yes. I do that all the time and it's only this past year I've started to question that attitude and notice and change things when it kicks in. I think I have a very long way to go. Good tip about getting to know myself too, thanks! :)

I'm not a psychotherapst- so what follows will be psycho babble. BUT maybe you should explore whether you have chosen a woman because it makes you feel safer, in terms of not being hurt? There are things in your post that point to that.

I also wonder if there is an elenent of chicken and egg in the way you live your life- again, when you talk of boundaires and having them set by others and you adaapting. Is this why you have accommodated the gender change? It's a bit like you saying "I've me someone who only eats chesse. I like cheese and miss it, but I am happy to go with the flow ( perhaps) and only eat cheesse too".

In other words, are you accommodating other's lifestyles because you lack conviction about your own- or you are too much of a "pleaser" due to lack of self worth?

I think you need, as Garlic said, to do a lot of exploration of who you are and what perhaps you need to do to feel more assertive because you do seem to have a pattern of getting into relationships where, to put it simply, you are on the back foot all the time.

I think that modern couple relationships find it difficult to survive long term when you are not one another's best friend and most intimate confidant.

That rings true amelia, yep. I have got to the point now where I'm loads better than I was, but clearly there is still work to do. Unfortunately, it's only when I get mired in these difficult relationships that I realize the areas I still have to work on. And I usually end up leaving the bad relationship to 'work on myself', swiftly feeling that I'm fine again, and then committing to someone equally unsuitable, whereupon I realize... etc etc. Pffft.
I'll think on this.

And yes, Bonsoir, that's always been my stance also. Though obviously it's (now) one of many concerns... Oh well.

Cutting through all the detail even further...

Relationships shouldn't be this complicated

Just because they are complicated doesn't mean you automatically have to fight harder for them

personally, I simply could not be arsed...too many issues, most of them stacked against you as an individual

in your position, I would be letting this one naturally die a death and finding someone

1. nearer to home

2. nearer my own age

3. someone whose issues I would constantly have to be stepping around at the expense of my own security

but then, I don't do drama

wouldn't

I agree with AF and pretty much everyone else - this is too much like hard work. You're still going for a fixer-upper, which is unhealthy. Also if your lover is polyamorous and you're not, you're on a hiding to nothing - you need to be on the same page about the basics, not one sacrificing for the other.

If this keeps happening to you, you need to do some work on whether you are a fixer and a pleaser. I haven't read the book, but have heard good things about "Women who love too much". Might be worth looking at.

Robin Norwood made all those case studies up, according to Susan Faludi in Backlash, though. Which is not to say that there isn't something to the basic premise, I suppose.

Thanks for responses! Well, she was visiting me this weekend and I thought that it might be crunch time in terms of taking action but I am still fence sitting. Dammit.

I did discuss with her some of these points from my OP. The polyamory one was strongly denied by her as something she is still into, saying that it was to do with gender confusion and once she started accepting the need to transition genders, it 'completely went away'.

Anyway, that's all by-the-by really, as some of you have said. I didn't really feel like talking about all of this with her helped things any, and I got very very faint alarm bells about the way the conversation was received, with DP saying first that she didn't know how to respond and being a bit cold, and then that she 'felt a bit pissed off and like defending herself, but was trying to take what I said at face value'. I didn't run with this, but a part of me was a bit at the 'pissed off' comment. I was just saying how I felt! Felt kind of uncomfortable at that. Another part of me knows that it must be very hard to hear that the person you love is having doubts about the relationship. She also said that she felt like there was a part of me that was 'expecting to be left and so kept looking for reasons why that would inevitably happen'. But she got a bit sulky after we talked and I kept thinking 'yeah, this is way too much like hard work'. Going to visit her on Wednesday so will be watching to see how we get on.

I'm in a state right now where I feel that things aren't bad enough to leave (I know, I know, I don't want to be one of those women who say that) and I want to be sure before I decide. I wish I could grow some self esteem and self knowledge about what I want and don't want while within the relationship and then make a choice about what to do based on higher levels of self worth. I have a habit of breaking up with unsuitable people and then GOING BACK FOR MORE again and again because I lack the courage of my own convictions and I start to doubt my decision.

The main reason I am hesitating is because before we got back together (recently) we had an awkward week or so trying to be friends and almost kissing a few times out of habit. It was very funny in some ways but really not funny at the same time. Basically, I know we can't be friends or see each other at all if we split and I'm very uncomfortable about cutting contact if things don't work out because of where she's at currently with her mental health and how it might affect her. I'm also scared about making the wrong choice and looking like a fool. We have a few friends in common so it could be awkward at social events in the summer. But mainly I would be very very sad and would miss her like crazy, and I don't know what to do with that. I wish things would either get worse or get better, at the moment they're just middling and I'm having all these hypothetical doubts about problems down the line, plus feeling a bit cut off from her emotionally and socially. I feel like a perfectionist who is never satisfied and who will never be able to be happy with anyone :( And wondering how much I've normalized already - hearing peoples thoughts is SO helpful as I feel locked into my vs her perspectives.
Oh, and the poster who said that "There is something very bonding and exclusive about being an oppressed minority. It may be hard for you as a cis straight woman to be trusted or accepted." is so spot on. That's just how it is.

Sorry for the long ramble...