Can very emotionally intimate friendships divert energy away from a romantic relationship?

[equallyuneasy]

A variant on the 'can men and women ever be friends' but casting the circle of debate a little wider.

I'm currently with someone who has quite a few very close friends. In the past they have had someone break up with them in part because of these close friendships. But their last serious partner before me was fine with it. So I feel a bit weird with not being okay with it, but it feels like the friendships (there is no one in particular which bothers me more than others) are so all-consuming and private that I'm left feeling as though all of their emotional energy is going on these people and I don't get much after all that.

I've always been of the type that when I'm in a relationship, that takes precedence, albeit slight precedence or a major one, depending on how long/involved it is. I'm very self sufficient myself and don't have many close friends, I don't really feel I need it though I have good friends and acquaintances and enjoy spending time with them. I know a lot of you who have weathered affairs really rate Shirley Glass's book, and I found the following quote really thought provoking:
A healthy couple builds a wall around their relationship, keeping it exclusive. During an affair, the offending partner opens a window and lets someone else in, eventually walling out the spouse.

Basically my partners behaviour is making me uncomfortable and I don't know what to do. I have a feeling they are unsuited to me, but can't tell if they're also being unfair. They've expressed a lifelong and strong interest in polyamory as as well which is NOT my scene, though said when we started going out that they were over that now and after trying it realized it wasn't for them.

I'm not trying to be drip feeding and I'm a regular who's namechanged for this post, I'm a woman and the person I'm seeing is a male to female transsexual in the middle of going through a gender transition, so a lot of this is about feeling insecure about what gender of person they'll be interested in, in a few months or years - they are bisexual. I'm straight and keen on monogamy. It's really messing with my head and I can't tell any more what issues are related to what, but I'd appreciate advice on the friendships thing because I figured I'd start by working out if either one of us is being an idiot or if we're just unsuited. Ta.

Things don't have to be "bad enough" for you to end it. You can just end it because you want to. And you should - the whole situation sounds just odd, frankly.

Hmm. I know that on paper, but when you're in love it harder, because the in-love part is fighting with everything that isn't right. :(

Sorry but you are not suited and this relationship is doomed. Not because of the gender aspects but because you want a much more intense and close relationship than your partner does and the two of you would drive each other mad.

I don't want to be unkind but people who want a lot of 'closeness' can come across as a bit desperate and needy (which would make me run a mile); equally your partner seems to be someone who likes to have a variety of relationships and interests. Both of you would be better off with someone who has similar views to their own.

Oh good, I was hoping you'd come along SGB :) Yes, I think you're right. I see what you mean about being needy; needy people drive me bonkers and I don't want to be universally categorized as needy (though I've been feeling that way lately and I hate it cos it's not like me). I don't mind wanting closeness to a point so long as I don't become a bunny boiler, but we're certainly not suited in that way, for sure.
Um, do you think this person has brought out the worst in me because of how different we are? Or am I just discovering that I'm the female equivalent to one of those men that I always advise MNers to run like fuck from?
God, I so don't want to be like that! It's crazy because normally it's the other way round.

What's weird is that when we had our little chat yesterday, she admitted to feeling jealous whenever I hung out with my closest male friend, or when DS's dad drops him off and we chat because apparently we have a 'thing', rapport, whatever. But she said that for her that kind of jealousy is okay for her to experience. Maybe I'm just really crap at dealing with normal everyday jealousy...
This whole thing is throwing up so many questions, it's quite useful to think about. Just painful.

You are simply overthinking everything

Relationships shouldn't be so hard

I don't know how you have the headspace for it all, tbh

Your life would be much simpler without this person in it. Or don't you do simple ? You should give it a go.

AF I am the queen of overthinking. Working from home does that to you, I so need to get out more.

I am starting to feel things would be a lot less complicated without this relationship, yeah... And I want to 'do' simple but dunno if I know how. Every time I practice it goes like this. I'm either the problem or I just keep picking wrong 'uns.

it sounds disastrous tbh. on many levels.

with regard to the gender issues - does your partner know what they feel about their sexuality (see themselves as straight female in a man's body or lesbian or??) and how they want to live sexuality wise after surgery? this would surely be an important thing to discuss.

i would have thought tbh that someone going through something that major would want to be focussed on themselves and all of that rather than starting relationships in the midst of it - that would seem the less selfish and more self-ful behaviour choice.

and for you to choose to take all this on (as in he was wanting to be a she when you first got together so you knew all this up front) suggests that yes you are still being drawn to complicated if not impossible relationships. i think a healthy person (and i'm not claiming to be one btw) would have a natural sense of self preservation that would say oh way too messy/too much likelihood of being hurt etc and steer clear.

swallowed, she regards herself as a female who is bi, so would potentially remain interested in both men and women after physical transition just as before, though obviously would depend on who she happened tomeet/was with as to whether it was a man or a woman she had a relationship with. To be honest, sexuality is a separate issue from gender and the two don't go together, though it's easy to feel that they are interchangeable. I used to think that as well.

Your post really hit home, you are right. It is selfish of him/her to get involved at this time, it's not as if we'd been together for years already so there was a strong vested interest in 'giving it a go'. There was no reason to jump in. And it is really stupid of me to get involved in terms of my own self-preservation. I just don't seem to have any. Clearly :(
Fuck.

i know sexuality and gender are separate but from what i have heard a lot of people who have their gender reassigned experience changes with sexuality when their gender issues are clarified.

i do think it's selfish and indicative of someone whose needs/wants come ahead of their ethics. maybe harsh of me. i also think it doesn't speak of a very emotionally mature person who starts up relationships when in the midst of a life transforming process and mass of stuff to deal with.

don't be sad - learn. you can, you are learning.

do you think there's any chance you don't 'really' want intimacy/commitment hence choosing those it's too complicated with or aren't capable of giving it?

as to my first paragraph there - for example a m to f trans not being that into men because they don't feel 'gay' or enjoy it in a mans body but upon reassignment that changing to really being into/only into men now that they do so feeling like a straight woman. that's an example of what i mean about how sexuality can change once the perceived wrongness of the body and gender is changed.

"do you think there's any chance you don't 'really' want intimacy/commitment hence choosing those it's too complicated with or aren't capable of giving it?"

Yes!! That's exactly what I'm doing. The realization has been starting to creep up on me in the last year, but it's really getting obvious now.

Wow, you're good

I get what you mean about gender and sexuality, totally. As for the persons ethics, they're an ordained member of a UK Buddhist order. Which, after the fracas involving a certain egg-eating Buddhist DP on another thread recently, isn't looking like a good sign.

Well don't let yours eat eggs

Luckily they are mostly dairy free. As well as wheat free, tomato free...

Oh, well - dairy doesn't = hens,but I know what I mean. I think..

hmm i've found some of the most passive aggressive cold hearted buggers can hide under the buddhist label quite comfortably

Update: I'm still dithering, and can't work out why. She's been here and I've been up there since I last posted. On the last visit there, we came very close to splitting up. She's going through a tough time with the transition as it's bringing up some childhood abuse stuff. I pretty got fed up as all of that (and the stuff up-thread) was stopping us from being normal and just hanging out together, and we very nearly broke up that evening.

Here's the thing, though: I said I couldn't handle things being this tense and uncertain, that she obviously wasn't up to being in a relationship right now, it wasn't working, and that I would go early the next morning (no trains that time of night and no money for B&B) as my presence there was blatantly freaking her out. She apologized, agreed with what I said but didn't try and change my mind or protest a lot, just looked numb and distraught. I went into the next room with my bag. And literally 20 seconds later I had got up and walked back in, cuddled DP and we were crying over each other. The next morning she suggested that we regard the previous night as 'a blip in what was otherwise a good month'. I was a bit .

Why the fuck did I go back in? WHY? What is wrong with me? Seriously. I mean, I really love this person, I do, so so much. But I don't totally understand why I did that all the same, compulsively without thinking. It felt like I left my self respect in that room when I walked back in and I'd only had hold of it about a minute. :(
Thoughts?

Anyone?

It's awful, ending relationships. It is really sad and painful and requires massive determination and makes one feel like a horrid person. It always feels easier and nicer to go back to the cosy status quo.

So, don't blame yourself too much. If things don't change you will just have to really bite the bullet next time to make yourself go through with it.

Polyamory?

This? - "a lot of this is about feeling insecure about what gender of person they'll be interested in, in a few months or years"

Sounds far too complicated if it's making you unhappy. Dump.

The MTF stuff is a red herring.

"It felt like I left my self respect in that room when I walked back in and I'd only had hold of it about a minute."

Well get hold of it again and walk out. Don't get taken in by emotional manipulation.

Bit more:

*Or am I just discovering that I'm the female equivalent to one of those men that I always advise MNers to run like fuck from?"

No you're with one of those men that Mumsnetters tell you to run like fuck from. Look at his behaviour - narcisstic, selfish, manipulative. Ringing any bells? We see it all the time on here. Just because he's in a frock taking hormones doesn't erase the male entitlement or need to have a woman around for him to trample all over.

God, I so don't want to be like that! It's crazy because normally it's the other way round

It's still the other way around. You've hooked up with an abusive male.

What's weird is that when we had our little chat yesterday, she admitted to feeling jealous whenever I hung out with my closest male friend, or when DS's dad drops him off and we chat because apparently we have a 'thing', rapport, whatever. But she said that for her that kind of jealousy is okay for her to experience. Maybe I'm just really crap at dealing with normal everyday jealousy

It's OK for him to feel jealous, but not you? Uh huh. Ringing any more bells.

One of the things that is coming across loud and clear here is that instead of paying attention to your own feelings and needs, you're taking his word for everything. You should probably do a bit of work on that.

Fuck. Fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck.

You're right :(

I emailed her this morning to call off a weekend visit to mine that we had planned. Said I needed more time to think.
I did have the odd uneasy wriggly feeling regarding the kind of stuff you pointed to, Nyac. But it just seemed so implausible - 'again?' But then of course, why not again? I'm still attracting these people consistently so technically it's more likely that I'd be with an abusive twatface than that I wouldn't. If that makes sense. A kind of occams razor for relationships.

It would explain why a mutual friend of ours is very uneasy about me getting back with this person repeatedly. He's seen me walk from messy, emotionally abusive relationship to another, and he did try and tell me his concerns but I was a bit sanctimonious with the poor bloke and all 'I can look after myself, don't worry'.
I think I owe Mutual Friend an apology, and myself a bit of tlc. And singleness. A lot of singleness. Sigh. Thanks for your post by the way, Mooncup. I don't know why I expected it to be easy; breakups don't tend to be enjoyable. I always see the pain as a sign that I'm doing the wrong thing and then I start to doubt myself.

Fuck it. This is madness. DS and I went to the beach today after I cancelled the romantic weekend, and I quietly greeted my self respect. I like liking myself, I do. I just need to do more of it.

Have you read Why does he do That? by Lundy Bancroft, and The Verbally Abusive Relationship by Patricia Evans. They might help.

Yes. And... This is going to sound really silly but I lent them both to the person in question because she said an ex was abusive once so I thought they might help. All my books on abusive relationship are in her house and I would love to re-read them right now, and believe me I can see the irony in this.
I feel really fucking stupid right now.