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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Can a man really change after committing Domestic violence?

74 replies

Aci82 · 02/02/2012 09:29

Last week I was assaulted by my boyfriend during an argument. After he was very remorseful and crying saying he was going to ring the police but I panicked saying no coz I don't want ss involved coz our 5 month old baby boy was there. When he had left the house I ended up ringing police as my face was a mess. He is in the process of anger management classes but I think he needs more in depth help. He has never hit me before we hav just had heated arguments where we both have vicious tongues. This is the first time he has lost it. I honestly think with the right help he could sort himself out. Has anybody ever been assaulted by there partner and stayed with them and things hav been ok? At the mo he on bail waiting for court so he not coming near but police told me he is pleading guilty and holding his hands up admitting he needs more help. I hav decided that after court he can see his son with me and a third party present but before I will let him back in my life properly he has to get counselling, do workshops and stay away from house till its proven to me. I am quiet worried coz ss are going to ring to arrange to come out but surely with me putting procedures in place to protect my children and that he is going to get help that should prove am not taking this lightly?

OP posts:
LadyMedea · 02/02/2012 09:45

He can change if he wants to. It will require an awful lot of hard work on his part. That's the only answer I can think of. Though more help is probably warranted as I don't its just a case of anger management, there is probably abuse in his childhood/family that he needs to come to terms with. Absolutely no excuse, but probably his only path to not being violent in the future.

If you are also verbally engaging with him you may both be being emotionally abuse to each other. You'll both need help with that - 'The Emotionally Abusive Relationship' is a good book to start with.

I think your plan for supervised contact with your DS is a really good idea. It will give you control but not close the door completely.

LadyBlaBlah · 02/02/2012 09:51

I am really sorry for what has happened to you.

And the short answer to your question is NO Sad

There are a few courses out there - he will probably be referred onto a perpetrators course. But the reality is that these courses are only effective, if at all, at a very surface level. The Relate course claims that they change 30% of violent men, but never clarify what the 'change' means and over what period of time. Most people who work in this arena know that the courses are only scratching the surface and they are never really about a 'cure' but more about teaching men to manage their behaviour - the feelings and anger in them are still there but they train them to manage them - and this is where the question mark arises - are they always going to be able to manage these feelings?

I would take this opportunity to get out now. Why take the risk - the odds aren't great. He will tell you over and over he won't do it again, but talk is cheap.

Aci82 · 02/02/2012 09:52

He does want to change. He is going to ask the court for any additional help they can give him. I think u are right with the emotional side of things as we were both as bad as each other and would both need to address that side of things. His dad died when he was young and his mother was never there so he was raised by his nan. When he got older he was in relationship and had child but she kept dipping baby in and out of his life when they split and turned his family against him so they were all on her side which to this day the ex is still doing, so maybe that is a factor too.

OP posts:
TopazMortmain · 02/02/2012 09:54

No. Basically.

Aci82 · 02/02/2012 09:58

LadyBlahblah - the fact he wanted to ring the police and is going to court pleading guilty, does that not show willingness to get help etc and not just talk? The courses might not be all there cracked up to be but maybe 1:1 counselling would help him?

OP posts:
CailinDana · 02/02/2012 09:59

I think the problem isn't whether he can change but whether you trust him any more. He's already stepped over the line, even if he went through a great course and changed his ways could you really feel safe and sure that he'd never do it again?

boredandrestless · 02/02/2012 10:04

No.

Keep him having a SUPERVISED relationship with his child, away from your home.
SS can support you in this. Your home needs to be a safe place for you and your ds, with no vicious arguments or violence.

Courses and counselling may help him manage this anger when he wants to manage it, but it cannot change the issues he has, the anger he has, etc.

Have you read the book recommended on here. www.amazon.co.uk/Why-Does-He-That-Controlling/dp/0425191656
very helpful.

I would also suggest you look into the freedom programme.

ShirleyO · 02/02/2012 10:04

No. I think that once that boundary has been crossed the liklihood of it happening again is just too great. It's not a risk I would be prepared to take with my childrens' lives.

I'm so sorry that this has happened to you. Have you called WA yet?

boredandrestless · 02/02/2012 10:04

oops, I'll try that again

www.amazon.co.uk/Why-Does-He-That-Controlling/dp/0425191656

noddyholder · 02/02/2012 10:05

no

LadyBlaBlah · 02/02/2012 10:05

It appears great that he wanted to ring the police (but didn't) and is pleaded guilty......but IMVHO this is simply par for the course. Is he really going to plead not guilty in light of the evidence??? He has no choice really and pleading guilty might lower his sentence, if he even gets one (unlikely).

I know it is hard and I know you really want to believe that he will change and means it, but really when you look at it, he didn't actually call the police, and what choice does he have but to plead guilty?

And I know you want to believe that people can change, but all the evidence shows that when men have got to this stage, change is almost impossible forever - you may have periods of calm (and remorse) but the behaviour will always rear it's head at some point. There is no known cure. Counselling for anything is not always effective, never mind for deep troubling problems like this.

solidgoldbrass · 02/02/2012 10:07

No. He can't change with respect to his relationship with you. You will always be the partner he has beaten and in the worst part of his mind you will always be someone it's OK to beat; your relationship with him is toxic.
If he's young, and grew up in an abusive household himself, he might learn new ways of behaving in the future, but he might not. SO keeping him out of your life and only allowing supervised access to DC is the way forward. Best of luck.

GetOrfMoiiLand · 02/02/2012 10:16

No.

he didn't kick off and punch his boss in the face, did he? So anger management classes are useless if the only person he has shown any agression towards is you. You will always, in your head and his, be his whipping boy. Inadequate violent men never change.

HotDAMNlifeisgood · 02/02/2012 10:16

No.

I'm so sorry.

singingprincess · 02/02/2012 10:19

I believe that anyone can change, and on quite a fundamental level. People do change naturally as they grow, and experience different ideas and norms.

BUT: The damage, and the deeply held beliefs and attitudes he learned from his own background will be very firmly entrenched, and it will take one hell of a lot of unravelling, and painful realisations on his part to rewrite his identity. And that's the tough part...rewriting his entire identity.

The men that have the best outcomes in this situation, are the ones who lose EVERYTHING. Friends, colleagues, work, their own family support etc etc. Because only then, do they "get it". That information is drawn from reading reports from the Duluth projects, Adam Jukes, Bancroft et al.

In my very humble opinion, I believe that change is possible, with a total commitment to change by the perpetrator, and perp programme, plus ongoing therapy, probably for many years, with a therapist who is an expert in the area. And therapy for you too, to understand why you are with this man in the first place, to learn to create more effective boundaries within your relationships.

Hope, yes, but not much, and only in very specific circumstances.

TheCuntwormUnderfoot · 02/02/2012 10:21

Your face was a mess?

The answer to your question is NO.

Think about the part of your brain, the emotions and thoughts that would physically STOP you from attacking another person like that. Could you actually cause damage like that to someone? I doubt it. Now think about doing that to someone you love- him, your family, your child. I bet you can't imagine it.

That normality, that control, that RATIONAL, ADJUSTED barrier to getting that horrific urge to damage, beat, destroy - his brain does not have that.

Read some other threads on here, speak to Women's Aid. There is no doubt at all that by far the best way to manage this so that your child is protected and nurtured is to end the relationship. And you, too - you deserve better than to be thinking that YOU can adjust and change so that a man who 'made a mess' of your face gets to turn back the clock and be treated like a normal person that can be trusted with being part of a family, having responsibility for a child.

'Can he change' - short answer no, long answer 'if you even wanted to be bothered to go there, knowing that would take years, not months. Years your child doesn't have if you want him to have a happy, secure childhood.'

I'm so sorry and I wish you all the best.

GetOrfMoiiLand · 02/02/2012 10:21

I am really sorry by the way, you must feel absolutely heartbroken and upset.

But don't waste your time on someone who is intrinsically broken. You can't fix him. The best thing you can do is protect yourself and your child.

QuintessentialyHollow · 02/02/2012 10:27

OP. It sounds like your boyfriends ex had a good point, actually. Well done to her, in managing to keep him out of her life, and seek support from his family in raising their child.

He cant be fixed. You cant fix him.

For him, if not his first relationship and child made him mend his ways, then I seriously doubt he really wants to change.

Be as smart as the ex and let him go.

jenny60 · 02/02/2012 10:46

So sorry, but no. Look after yourself and your child and break away now.

Mrswhiskerson · 02/02/2012 10:50

I am so sorry yo are going through this it must feel like a nightmare,
with what you said regarding his ex and other child maybe she is dipping into his life and people have turned against him because he beat her too?

Like other posters have said he didn't call the police and if he really wanted too he would have. It must have been a viscous attack to leave your face in a mess but when you think about taking him back have a long look at your face in the mirror , the man who is supposed to love you the mother of his child found it acceptable to punch you in the face more than once knowing it would really hurt you , at that time he wanted to hurt you and instead of walking away to cool off he went for it, the remorse and tears are par for the course with dv it is very manipulating .

Please don't take him back you will never be able to trust him again you will findyourself changing your behaviour to please him And it will happen again, I ts just a matter of time.

When you love someone you would do anything to protect them from harm not be the cause of it.
Think of your beautiful baby growing up in a house of fear and violence and the effect it will have in the future

squeakytoy · 02/02/2012 10:55

Sorry OP, but no, it is very very very unlikely he will change. He may change in another relationship, but the trust between the two of you is broken now and he has crossed the line. I have never known a relationship to fully recover from physical violence without a reocurrence, and I have been in two myself that ended due to it.

Mrswhiskerson · 02/02/2012 10:55

Sorry pressed post by accident,

think of your ds growing up with an abusive father then imagine him punching his girlfriend in the face and so on.
Break the cycle before it starts and go on to Have a happy life free of fear.

I wish you all the luck in the world x

Diggs · 02/02/2012 11:13

What makes you think hes got an anger management problem ? Has he previously assaulted people , his boss , other men ? Or just you ?

Domestic violence is NOT about anger , its about control . This incidant did not come out of the blue , as you say , you have had heated arguments previously ( i imagine he has called you all sorts ) . There is usually a build up to these incidants , it starts with shouting , name calling , smashing stuff up , preventing you leaving a room , pushing and shoving , and finally , an assault .

The reason for this escalation is due to you becoming desensitized to his low level abuse , i imagine initially he could reduce you to tears by yelling abuse . After a bit that doesnt work anymore so the attempts to control and dominate become more severe .

I strongly suggest you get yourself on the Freedom Programme run by womens aid , and also that you read the books recommended on here . You will read all about your partner in black and white , and youll learn why he chooses to be abusive to you .

PeppermintPasty · 02/02/2012 11:30

Hmm. I think I will be in the minority here, but I am only offering my own experience. Before I do, I would say that I broadly agree with the posters who say no in answer to your question.

However, my experience has panned out differently. I started seeing someone around 12 years ago. He was very young-just 18. I was 13 years older. Great relationship, great times, very volatile however, on both sides. Emotionally volatile at first, ie great overblown rows, slamming doors, running off, making up etc etc blah blah. No question that I was ridiculous (immature?) to give it out and take it too.

Anyway, it turned physical some years later. Here's the thing-on my part long before it was ever on his part. Here I mean pushing and shoving etc. Not great. Not often, but still not great.

He would occasionally push me back, never struck me. I am clear that it was me that used to rack up these situations. I am clear about it because I have done a lot of work around it. There is a back story, but really I could go on forever and a day which wouldn't help.

Anyway, we were apart "but not apart" at one stage. Around 7 years ago. He was lying to me about stuff, was "with" me in my eyes, I then found out he was "cheating".

God writing this is quite difficult. I'm aware of just how damaged and dreadful our relationship was, how tiring and wearing.

Anyway, one night, both had a drink-him drunk me not, he hit me hard on the head with something. A not very pleasant night followed eventually culminating in me having him arrested.

Long story cut short, I did not withdraw my statement(as the police expected me to!), he was prosecuted and he was dealt with by the courts.

I suppose that night started out a massive recovery for both of us. We were apart for a long time, he had (and still has) issues coming out of his ears, but he dealt with them, on his own and with me, off his own bat. Counselling, courses, the works. Growing up helped too. I mean the physical act of getting older!

Me, I had plenty of things to work on too, still have.

We have no issues with violence anymore. None. Lots of other stuff, but more run of the mill "normal" problems, I would say.

We have 2 children now, 4 and almost 2. This is not said to sign it all off as a neat tale. There is no ending. I know some will read this and cringe when they read we are together and have children.

Truthfully, I think my DP "changed" only insofar as he grew up, in lots of ways. There are plenty of reasons I could point to in his childhood that might explain the things he did, and a few in mine, but then again, there will be plenty of people who had hideous experiences in childhood but who are not violent, ever.

The thing is though, in your case Op, or anyone's for that matter, these things don't happen overnight. If he can change, it's going to be a long haul, preferably with a lot of time away from you. He needs to do it, no one else can fix him. And you already have a child. That is the great difference between our experiences. I only had myself to think about when this was going on with me, but you have to protect yourself and your child of course.

I don't want to "muddy the waters" with my experiences. But the truth is, after a long hard time, we are happy, we are blessed really, with our beautiful children and a good strong relationship. But bloody hell, I do look back sometimes and wonder how we managed it, wonder how and why we stuck at it.

suburbophobe · 02/02/2012 11:41

The fact is, whether he will change or not (and I don't believe abusive men do), do you really want to be walking on egg shells the rest of your life?