How would you stop/have you stopped being horrible

[OuchCharlie]

I'm going to try not to make this a 'pity me' post, I think I'm a reasonable person most of the time, hope I'm a good mum and friend.

The problem is I don't think I'm being a very good wife at the moment.

Quick background; DH and I have been together almost 4 years, longest relationship either of us has had (his previous record was 1.5 years with someone 'horrible', mine was 4 months with a manchild) we've been married nearly 2 years and have a gorgeous 1 year old son.

I'm a SAHM and DH works, he gets 2 days off a week and we try to do fun things as a family, my problem is that I keep snapping at him, telling him how to do stuff (relating to DS) and just generally being like an annoying negative running commentary! I'm aware that I'm doing it but it wasn't until he said something the other day I really stepped back and looked at it from his point of view;I feel terrible and I want to change.

I'm not trying to excuse my behaviour but I think it comes from a mixture of just wanting things to be done right and keeping my son safe (DH is a little rougher with him than I am which I know is normal for a man but it makes me worry) and the fact that I'm constantly talking to DS so it's a kind of habit now to keep talking and pointing out dangers etc.

DH is a brilliant dad and amazing husband. There are very few 'bad' things I can say about him... I do wish things were more equal financially and struggle with the fact that he pays for everything (brilliant) while I don't 'work' but also that I have no money of my own apart from what is meant for our son for things such as nappies, clothing, playgroup etc but even if you are extremely frugal (which I am) people still need tampons, shampoo etc. Anyway I digress somewhat, apart from that and I wish I wasn't the only one to hear DS wake up (once awake he won't give in until I get up with him) there is very little amiss in the balance of our relationship; he doesn't deserve to be snipped at and told how to be a dad.

What makes it worse is that although DS adores DH he is going through a stage where he only wants me at the moment.

I can feel DH getting fed up with me but he's so tolerant he rarely says anything. I don't want to be the kind of mum who nags constantly and I definitely don't want to be that kind of wife, we've got a long time left together and I want things to be harmonious without him thinking 'shut up you old hag' and me hating myself!

So, if you've been through similar how did you (for want of a better phrase) learn to shut yourself up!?

How can I stop nagging before its out of my mouth? I know I've done it as soon as its out of my mouth but by then it's too late.

What AnyFucker said.

Your position is frighteningly precarious, can't you see?!

You need to be building savings of your own. You need to not be kept in penury by your husband.

It really saddens me that you started this topic as an obviously sincere plea for help to be "nicer." You need to stop being so bloody nice, demand access to money WHICH IS JOINTLY YOURS and get stroppy if that to which you are legally and morally entitled isn't instantly forthcoming.

Tampons and shampoo. A husband who lets you struggle to get yourself such bare necessities is not doing right by you.

Back earlier than expected. Had a chat last night as I'm crap at pretending nothings wrong!

I don't think he had any idea how bad things were and how much they bothered me (but then neither did I until I posted here) so I explained that I'm really struggling (used the tampons as an example) - he basically said I just need to tell him I need money for hair dye, new socks or whatever and it's mine.

It turned out that talking about it helped me get my head around how I felt. Basically that I'm doing the job of a childminder 24 hours a day with free housing but no wage! That's an exaggeration but it's a bit like that. I explained that as pp said having separate bank accounts has always worked for us but things are different now we're married/have a DC/I'm not working.

I've said I'm not looking for him to put my name on his bank account - but for him to pretend it's there. I'm not expecting him to ask permission or run every tiny purchase by me, but have asked if we can sit down each month with the bank statement and he can tell me "this is what came in this month, these are our outgoings, this is what's left" - that way I will know if it's appropriate to ask for something here and there or whether it can wait a month.

As it happens there's not a lot left at the end of each month. Our rent, bills and his debts take a very large proportion of the wage (look I said the - I'm starting to believe it's ours!) - he probably spends about £20 a month on himself, the same as me - I suppose my point is that there's a little more left for him if he needs it whereas there's not for me. I think we've opened up the lines of communication again so I won't be so apprehensive about approaching things another time. It's easy to lose your way a bit in a relationship when you have a child I think. You forget that your needs and feelings are important too.

I also discussed my parents and realised that I've probably looked at the situation in an unfair light. I don't think my mum was wrong to spend family money on the family but I've always felt she took advantage of my dad. She was constantly redecorating and complaining that nothing was good enough, she spent a lot of money on herself where dad didn't. But then I realised some of that money went on a cleaner - fair enough we were all in our teens by then and she still wasn't working (so I kind of think she had time to do housework - would be interesting to know others thoughts on that) - it suddenly occurred to me that my dad never lifted a finger, he expected her to do all the childcare and housework so I think why shouldn't she have used 'his' money to pay for someone to do his share of the tasks?!

There's a fine line (for me at least) between being assertive (ie; knowing and believing in what I deserve) and going too far into being passive (i dont want to be demanding/ungrateful) or aggressive (i work as hard as you, I deserve to be paid for it) but I feel we've turned a corner by discussing it. The 2 points to come out of the discussion were that we will discuss finances and I won't be afraid to ask for what I need/want - he will also give me money here and there when there is some to spare - I'm under the impression that there is very little but I intend to be as sure as he is that there's not before scuttling off back to my corner (not that I font believe him but I am very good at budgeting and finding the best deals). The other thing is that although I don't want to leave DS (because I miss him too much) I am going to start doing so because I need to in terms of getting my identity back a little, being appreciated a little more and obviously to give them time to bond and for DH to learn his ways of soothing and doing things.

With regard to my OP I have been trying really hard to hold my tongue and let DH do his thing, he knows that now and could understand it when I said imagine if I came into your work (where you know the quickest/most effective way you do things) and started doing your job differently to you - it will take a little time to get on the same page but I'm confident it will happen because we've always had such a solid partnership and good understanding of each other, having a child can throw a huge spanner into the works but I know we'll be OK.

I just need to start planning my return to work (we have agreed that an evening job in a few months would suit) and getting health and life insurance sorted (probably for him too) and we also need to sort out a will mainly for the sake of what would happen to our son if something happened to one or both of us. It's time to start behaving like responsible adults, yikes!

You're equals. Having to ask him for money is degrading to you.

I wouldn't want to have to ask for money either. But it sounds like you have made huge progress. If you discuss money on a regular basis, as you agreed, then I think it will become obvious what is fair and equitable.

How times change! My father gave my mother housekeeping money, and the idea of her going out to work was very threatening to him, as he had been brought up to believe he should be the sole provider. [old gimmer emoticon]

Op I was in a similar situation as yours many years ago. There wasn't much spare cash "left " at the end of the month and sometimes none at all and as my Dh was/is self employed I was always reluctantto ask for money as we had no really regular income so it was difficult to assess what was available to spend.
We had a Joint account when I first became a SAHM, but it was was an unmitigated disaster, and caused so many rows!
What worked for us was having two separate accounts (both in joint names for convenience) but operated individually by each of us. The Child benefit was paid to me and Dh would pay a small amount into it each month and more if he had a "good" month.

I started doing private babysitting in the evenings that paid me very well, and meant that DH spent more time with the children. I did all sorts of "little jobs" that provided me with pocket money while they were small. Even in these tough times there are still "pocket money jobs" out there if you are interested. I know a small amount of your own spending money makes all the difference!

First of all, relating to your OP - your comparison of you coming into his work (where you are not qualified or needed) to him looking after his own son is really unfair.

Your son has a right to a relationship with his Dad that is not mediated by you.

Sure, you are the main carer, but this man lives with his son and could do plenty of caring for him, in his own way, that would be good for both of them.

This man loves your (plural) child just as much as you do.

Yes, he will do things differently, but that is a good thing. Your son has two parents, not just one with an occasional assistant.

Secondly, asking your husband for money for necessities is demeaning. If he won't give you access to the household money, he needs to give you a set amount each month for discretionary spending.

Thirdly, having one parent stay at home while the other supports the household financially has to be a joint decision. If your DH wants you to go back to work, it's not fair to refuse and force that burden onto him.

A lot of your problem seems to be that you are as immovable on the subject of not working as he is on not sharing. You need to sort these issues out together, through agreement. Not through getting your way by stonewalling and avoidance (which you are both guilty of).

nooka - no, your children's ages don't change my response. I think having a parent at home is great for older children.

But the fact that you are not happy with the current set up means that he needs to look to changing it. He is not entitled to stay at home just because he likes it. Although I do wonder what kind of work he'd be able to get after so long at home...

Why not open a joint account for all expenditure after bills? Have your DH pay in a set amount to cover groceries and other day to day expenses such as magazines, coffee with friends. Then you do not have to ask for money.

I set out my stall 10 years ago when we bought our first house. We opened a joint account and we became a team. Our money was pooled and we ask each other if we want to make a big purchase.
We are now married and I am currently a SAHM but do not have to ask for money buying everyday essentials.
We just consult on big non essential items. It works for us.

I am looking forward to earning money soon though as a Childminder.

Getting an evening job will be good for you, your DH & DC. You get a break from the house and your DH & DC get to spend time together. Your DH will also get a taste of what you do.

Children have to ask for spending money , grown ups dont .

It sounds like you have made progress re. the finances

I still don't understand how it improves life for you on a practical basis though

do you not have a debit card for his account ?

I presume you buy things like tampons and shampoo out of the weekly shop that is paid for out of his account ? How do you pay ? And you would still have to ask like a child if you ran out of tampons or somesuch piffling item.

Skim-read this thread tbh, but am just amazed that there are couples who still have these arrangements and sad that women will still put up with being financially controlled like this.

You need equal access to the family finances. It is joint money and spending decisions must be joint decisions, and you need to know what state the finances are in. Then you can make a joint decision about the amount of spending money you can both have (which should be equal!).
Even if you choose to keep money from pre-dc days in your own accounts, any money brought into the household since you've had a child - particularly if one of you has stopped working - needs to be pooled.

Good luck.

Just a thought - is it possible for you to get a very part time job of some sort?? Not only do you feel you are earning something and contributing (& therefore feeling less guilty about spending DH's wages on face creams etc if you are anything like me!) it also means that DH & DC have to learn to work things out between themselves when you are not there. You also get the added bonus of being yourself rather than "DC's mum" for a few hours a week.

I was in a similar situation 3.5 years ago and working 7 hours on a saturday in a local shop 5 mins walk from our house was a lifesaver for me in so many ways...

I still work saturdays there and I have come to accept that DH parents differently to me but the girls adore "daddy day" and look forward to it every week :)

After the 1st saturday I worked (DD1 was 21 months, DD2 was 6 months) he has NEVER again asked me what i did all day when he gets in from work and house is a tip! :)

I've only read the first page so far OP (computer is freezing every time I try to page forward!) so forgive me if this point has already been addressed -

but if your DH says there is not enough money each month to give you a small "allowance" or whatever you want to call it, and you can't afford shampoo and tampons, then quite clearly your finances are not alright and you do need to go back to work.

Also, childcare would not take up most of your wage. It would cost a certain amount which would be paid for out of the family's joint finances.

My DH earns approximately 3 times as much as I do but all our money is joint money. Neither he nor I would have it any other way. We contribute to the family in different ways; he earns more money whilst I do more childcare, food shopping, housework, organisational stuff, laundry etc. I work fewer hours so I'm happy with this.

If I had had no access to "our" money while I was a SAHM for 3 years I would have taken the DCs and left. Actually, no - I would have kicked DH out and divorced him. As someone else said (AnyFucker I think?) - you are in a dangerous position here OP and no, your DH is not wonderful if he doesn't allow you to know what your family finances are. He's treating you as though you're inferior.

OK, I've read your most recent post now OP and whilst it's great that you've had a discussion about it all with your DH now, it still sounds as there's a huge imbalance in your DH's favour: 1) a large part of your family's income is going towards servicing his debt each month, and b) you have to tell him what you need the money for before he will give it to you?? Don't you feel demeaned by this?

Did you know about his debt before you married him, or was it a surprise?

May I add that, years ago, I was the sole breadwinner for over a year while my DH did some re-training and earned nothing at all. He was studying full-time and I was working full-time. We set up a joint account; everything I earned was paid into the joint account, and we both had equal access to it. I had no problem whatsoever with this, as I loved him and trusted him (and still do). As I said earlier, I have also had a period without earning anything and the joint account, with all money shared, still works for us. We discuss major purchases before we make them, and tbh if either of us wanted to spend more than £30 on something for ourselves we would probably discuss it with the other one, but there's an implicit trust between us that we can control our own spending, stay within our means, and not make huge purchases without respecting the other's equal rights to the money.

Couldn't you get a part time/evening job? That's what I did, we could afford to live of DPs partners while I was getti g maternity, when that stopped I got an evening job, until my year was up and I was back to full time work. I felt so I'll at the thought of leaving DD but I love my evening job! I worked there before I had DD so I get to go and be ME for a while. Plus the adult conversation helps too!

Hmm have read the whole thread and a different scenario has sprung to mind - is your DH protecting you from the financial realities because you so desperately want to be a SAHM.
What if there really is no money leftover ?
Parenting/mothering is lots of things -providing for your DC is a basic need.

When you do the food shop, what do you use to pay for it? And why can't you buy things like tampons from the supermarket at the same time?

You need to work to get your own Money and some autonomy
Plenty parents use childcare,start looking into it to plan return to work
At the moment not working you're wholly dependent upon your husband and having to ask money for necessities like self care and sanitary products.the mind boggles you need to ask for such essentials

Your conceptualizing it as you must be at home to meet all childcare needs, to an extent reinforces your lack of choices and opportunities. Yes you're mum but you Can be other roles to eg mum and worker.without adverse affect upon son.plus you need to think when child at school what's your role?can't be sahm if kid at school

A guy who denies you basics isn't a great guy

Op just to give you some balance i have just finished a years maternity leave the last 3 months of which were unpaid.Dh and i eran roughly the same but when we were down to only one income he happily used all his wages to cover our bills and what was left over we shared.I still bought clothes,had lunch with friends,went out,bought baby clothes and clothes for my other children.We had to buy both families xmas pressies with his money as well.Not once have i had to ask for money or justify what i spent,we are both glad to have my wages back again but i think i am fairly typical of how its done tbh.
Fwiw,we dont have joint accounts but pay into a housekeeping acc to cover all the boring stuff,he just had to pay a lot more when i was off.
I would say that you do need to be a bit more on an equal footing,as you say childcare is expensive maybe you could remind him of what it would cost to get someone to do all that you are doing,you are saving that expense thus his wages belong to all of you not just him.

One more point:

It's worth separating how you deal with the money administratively from how you deal with it psychologically

In other words, the practical ins and outs of how you manage money are not that important. You don't have to have a joint account, DH and I have separate accounts because we've lived in different countries and can't be bothered to shut everything down overseas and such.

But psychologically it's very important that you start thinking of the money as ours, not his or mine. Even though we have separate accounts we are always telling each other how much we have, shifting things so that we each have enough. DH would give me his bank card without a second thought and vice versa.

I say this because it's easy to get hung up on insisting on a joint account when what you need is to really start treating the money as joint.

But honestly, if at the end of the month you each have less than £20 for yourselves, and can't afford some pretty important things, you really need to think about working at least part-time.

Having followed this thread it occurred to me that our arrangement might be unreasonable, so I discussed it with my wife. She said she's very happy with things as they are and wouldn't want a joint account. She also said she wouldn't appreciate having to ask for money all the time, so the small float she has serves its purpose. Might you be happier with something like this? As long as your discretionary spending is equal then things seem OK. I know it's hard when finances are tight, it's always best to know just how tight they are though.

"1) a large part of your family's income is going towards servicing his debt each month"

Sorry, but if income is shared then surely debts are too.

Yes, the debts should be shared BUT he ran up that debt yet she is having to beg for money to buy shampoo and tampons when her husband has a small amount of money to spend on himself each month - it might be less than £20 but I'm sure it would stretch to a pack of Tampax and some shampoo .... It's very unfair and unkind that he has money to spend on himself, despite being in debt, whereas she doesn't.

I thought the OP said that she had debts herself that she had to pay out for?

See, this situation doesn't seem to me to be as black and white as many of you have painted it. Firstly, it's clear that this is a household with very little money. After all bills (including debt repayments have been made) there seems to be around £40 a month left, and it sounds as though they share it equally.

Secondly it is the OP who has elected not to work. Her choice. Her DH is enabling her to do that, even though money is really really tight for them. He sounds like a nice bloke, frankly. If we were down to £40 a month after all bills had been paid, DH would insist that I worked. I do work actually and I enjoy working, so the situation is entirely hypothetical, but still. DH would simply not put up with that degree of financial precariousness for us as a family unit.

I don't think you should rush to shout financial abuse. It'd be fair enough to shout that if there were £4k a month left over of which the OP got £20. But not in this situation.