"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families.

[singingprincess]

There is a word document with all the relevant links which I will try and find, but in the meantime...Post away.

I still don't understand why you are the parent?
My mother chose not to parent. She left it to me. I stopped at 16 when I left home. I am the oldest of four. We are all adults and make our own decisions. We are aware of the damage that she has done and do not allow her to continue to do so.

Sorry for your loss Biddy.

Life changes do strange things to people that make them even more strange than they would be usually. I can understand you wanting to do the right thing by your mum especially if it paves the way for other things you have planned. It is like being the parent. Do we not all do this with our own children one way or another? Such as I'll take you to the park and then we'll go to the supermarket/ get five minutes peace etc. Ridiculous that it is us parenting the parent in this way. But isn't this what the thread is for. To sound off about things and situations that involve our families who should have grown with us and haven't.

Just looking for some advice with coping with an awful mother.

She's always been over critical, ranting, sometimes aggressive and violent. My siblings and i left home as soon as we were able.

She's criticsed me throughout my life. And she's not yet got on to my dd, but my sibling's dc who are older she's vile to.

Since my father died, I'm finding her increasingly difficult to deal with. She alienates anybody she comes into contact with. she argues with the neighbours, shop assistants, health workers - literally anybody she has contact with. As such she's very much alone in life.

So after a few weeks she targets on us for some social interaction. Despite my best efforts I usually end up arguing with her. She has recently become very racist and biggotted which I really can't abide.

Anyway, she came down last weekend when we were arranging a day's out treat for my dd for her bday. She totally ruined the day by arguing with the staff at the venue, the staff in the cafe, the people doing the activity next to us. My dd being young was oblivious to it. But it ruined the day for me.

She then rang me up a day later saying i had to refurbish my bathroom this week. My dd is having some friends round on the weekend. I work in the week. We don't have money to refurbish the bathroom. Even if we did, we wouldn't be able to do it by the weekend. She then launches into this huge emotional blackmail about how embarrassed by dd is of the bathroom (she's 6 - she doesn't even notice) and what terrible parents we are for putting her through this. Also our house is disgusting (it's not) and that she is coming round (2 hours drive) tomorrow to "go through it". I told her she's not coming round as I'm working then I've got a school event and then I'm taken my dd for swimming lesson. She keeps going on, and on and on. Eventually I say well come on Saturday then as that's when we'll do a tidy up for her friends coming round on Sunday. She then kept ringing several phones in the house, repeatedly. Eventually I picked up one, still trying to work - and she went on again about our bathroom. At which point I told her to stop giving me grief and stress that I didn't need. Anyway, then, she tries to ring my dh at work. He's in a meeting and he doesn't pick up.

She leaves it a day. Eery silence.

The next day she's ringing every phone in the house off the hook again. I ask my dh to answer (after there are now 15 missed calls on the phone) and tell her I'm out with a friend. She's found a marvellous holiday we all should go on - the only catch is it's thousands of pounds and in term time (she's a fantasist - is the other problem). She then launches into a convo with my dh about how stressed I appear to be and she thinks I have an alcohol problem.

Frankly, I'm ready to murder the old witch now. Shes due to come here on Saturday to "go through" my "disgusting" house. By the way, it's not at all disgusting. We clean quite regularly. She's just a nasty critical person.

What do I do? I can't even bear to speak to her at the moment. I don't want her round my house ever again. But I know once the anger subsides I'll feel guilty because she's probably mentally ill and very lonely and I know my father (now deceased) wouldn't want me to leave her on her own.

Any advice appreciated.

anoni39 I'm afraid I don't know how you would go about talking to your mother as my mother cut me out of her life for openly challenging her abusive behaviour (which I am not sorry for). My mum, as well as being quite toxic, suffers from some sort of undiagnosed post-traumatic stress and post-natal depression type illness and lots of people have used this to excuse her vile and abusive behaviour.

My advice to you is don't back down. She maybe mentally ill, but if you let her walk over you she WILL continue and she WILL believe that it is an acceptable way to treat someone. If she is anything like my mum, she will probably spit her dummy out for a few weeks then contact you pretending that the whole dispute didn't even happen. Also, your mums bereavement may be very relevant. Her alienation from society maybe the symptom of something else such as depression and, if she is vulnerable, she might benefit from a CPN/GP visit.

Thank you Guy for your reply. I honestly do wonder if it would be better to cut ties sometimes. It sounds like your own experience has been dreadful.

I think you're right I do need to stand up to her. It's so exasperating and stressful to deal with.

That happens quite often actually. She's absolutely vile, leaves a trail of upset people in her wake, then acts as if nothing has happened a few days later.

I just find her so manipulative - she often will make up lies and say my dc have said this that or the other, in a bid to make me do what she wants me to do. Or phone my dh at work to discuss how unreasonable I'm being.

I have tried to persuade her to get some treatment for depression ass I do think she is depressed. She doesn't approve of counselling or medication though. She has always been extremely difficult and I have recently thought it might well be a personality disorder. It just seems to be getting intolerable.

I do have two supportive (to me) siblings and I have asked them to call her to take some of the strain off me. But if they know she's really bad, they're reluctant to for a few days until she's less aggressive.

Thank you. It has really helped to write it all down and I very much appreciate your response.

anoni Yeah, I was very grateful that it was her that cut ties rather then me... it seems like a really tough choice to make. And my mum is very similar in that she doesn't 'believe' in MH problems and won't get help (hence her issues being undiagnosed). It sounds like you have a great support system with you sisters.

As long as you are keeping an eye on your mums MH, taking her comments on the chin and all supporting each other I don't know what else you can do. Good luck.

Have a de-stress and try not to think about it for a few days

Can I just offload here please. Saw my parents yesterday - they came up as we moved house in the summer.

It was a duty visit and they like to see my ds's. I found it a terrible strain and am left feeling low and angry with the way she is and the things she says to me.

The first thing was that she asked where to put a dripping tea bag so I said the bin and asked her not to let it drip on the floor to which she rolled her eyes - because one of her big issues is that she likes to make out I'm very incompetent in the domestic area! True I'm not that house proud and naturally a bit untidy but I am clean and do just about keep on top of things with a full time job and as a single parent.

Then she made a vomiting face when ds1 was describing his favourite takeaway - as it's spicy!

She then said in front of ds's that I was aggressive and that's why they are like they are! I'm loud and also assertive but not aggressive! She really thinks she is always sweetness and light but I know that's not true and also not a realistic way to live.

I showed her a photo of myself on Facebook and she said that the photo was much nicer than I looked in real life! Completely unnecessary and I would never dream of insulting her or anyone for that matter like that. I did call her on that one and she didn't know what to say!

The last issue was that I said I didn't know what I would do financially if anything happened to exh and she had no sympathy - said of course I'd need to move out of London (although my job is here and the ds's schooling) I'm sure she says that because she hates London and I love it.

Aibu to think she is out of order and not a normal way to treat a daughter - she never expresses affection or tells me she's proud of how I manage or anything - if anything the contrary - when younger told me I analysed things too much - have done top many courses - did ug and pg degree.

Does anyone think she sounds jealous? She comes from a family which doesn't value women either and her own mother died when she was a teenager

SCL

Time to re-raise your boundaries with your parents a lot higher than they are now. Your toxic mother sounds awful and with her dysfunctional background to boot it is not altogether surprising that females are not valued (men were likely placed on pedestools and seen as figures who could do no wrong).

It is not your fault that she is like this, her own birth family caused that damage. She in turn has taken it upon herself not to deal with her own many issues stemming from all that.

BTW I would not let your Dad off the hook either as such women always but always need a willing enabler/bystander to help them. I reckon too your Dad did not intervene in any way whilst his wife was in full steam ahead mode.

I do not think that such people actually like the DC so much as wanting to antagonise and criticise their choices in front of their own parent. Your parents do not have any real interest in them at all. Children may well wonder why you allow them to visit at all. They do not get anything positive from such a visit. She calling you agressive as well in front of your children is certainly not on either.

Do not ever have them in your home again. That is one step you can yourself take, self preservation is key here.

Thank you Atila - even though I have known all this for years I still have difficulty with accepting that she is toxic and that I am not to blame or am what she says I am - even though I know I am not IYKWIM.

I think I am well liked and have always had really good friends.

You're right that my df does stand by and not intervene - he is quite a weak character and now's he's older has sort of withdrawn into himself - his health is not brilliant either - he is very vague about everything and had a major op last year and then a mini stroke following that.

The funny thing was I sensed from a child a bad vibe from her.

What I also find difficult is that her sister - my auntie - who died over ten years ago was a warm lovely person - she had four boys - when I was about four I went to stay with her for a short while - I think I got upset when my mum and dad left and she cuddled me, called me an angel and said she always wanted a little girl. I think the fact that this episode sticks out in my mind as one where I was being given affection and warmth - as you would to any child demonstrates the lack of it coming from my mother.

I suppose different personalities deal with their toxic environment differently and my auntie had a completely different personality. I would also say my mum was jealous of her sister - who also moved away when she got married and often used to liken me to her. She'd say 'your just like your auntie'. That wasn't meant as a compliment.

I do keep her at a distance as we live quite far away from each other.

Also as a teenager I developed a very strong sense of social justice and feminist ideas and that went down like a lead balloon of course - both politically (they are daily mail/express types) and also quite old fashioned in their view of women's roles.

I have always felt the odd one out in my family. My db is less so but even he has said they are negative and overly critical.

I think there is often a compromise between no contact or lots so that you fulfil moral duties. See her twice a year with the children but no more contact unless she improves.

So, since mine visited, there has been a sudden death in the family. I do believe it distressed her, but it also gave her lots of opportunity to create drama and make it about her, again. She has done as predicted, took my brother away for the funeral and has done nothing but stir.
I will be no contact after this week. Had enough. It's not good for my physical or mental health. I can't believe the lying that goes on, and more to the point, the utter nastiness of what she has to say about other people, in many cases, lovely, lovely people.

I'm sorry to barge in. I have a stately homes kind of family and have just, after a couple months of no contact with my parents (those months were bliss) received a package from them and now I'm a bit wrong-footed.

In the package are three items - a magazine that I was published in, my uni convocation program, and a note I signed "love you" in 1999(!). My whole life has been in code and I can read this: The program and the magazine represent things my parents believe they did for me (publication, graduation) and the note is a reminder that I was once "a nice girl". It's a nasty, guilt saturated little package. (I feel like I want to explain more, but I think I'm among my own kind here. Ask if you need more info and I will gladly supply.)

My question is: What the hell? Do I send the package back, all taped up? Do I respond and say I got the package and I don't know what they sent it? There is a note in the package that asks me if I want the Monopoly set (that one baffles me) and closes with an ultimatum to let them know. Do I email and ask them not to send me stuff?

How do I/do I respond?

My opinion would be not to respond at all. This is their way of having a dig at no contact and trying to re-open pathways of communication. I wouldn't give them the chance to be honest.

I agree w Dawn, don't feed into any games.
Feel for u, its so hard. However, a possible- admittedly mixed-up- view of the parcel is as testament to their love for you. The proud moments in yr life?? From their point of view???
Not having more context, hard to say, but they may have v black & white thinking and/or have scapegoated u for family dysfunction in which case parcel may have more toxic meaning or at least a mixed one.
Have you considered therapy?

Am in not dissimilar situation and recently gone NC w parents, v hard and v but i had to
finally have the gumption, sense of self-preservation, be adult enough to set my boundaries for 1st time ever with them. Supportive therapist and dh have helped enormously!

Hi Thundern, if it helps try to realise that this is a v odd thing for them to do. Beacsue the are sending you something as a way of putting the ball in your court (ie: now you have to do something beacsue they have 'done something') but in fact they havent really approached you at all. They ahvent tried to understand whats up, or why you are angry/upset. What they may have done etc (They havent because thats what normal people do when they upset someone they care about and they arent normal)

If you think about it you find that the assumption underneath the package is that something is wrong with you but they are not at fault in any way. So they are sending it to you as a way of sending you a code by which you can understand what you are doing wrong.
And yes you will have done stuff wrong, so thats why it hooks you in. But the thing not to forget that this technique means they dont look at themselves.
The package is not a dialogue opener.
I dont know what I would do...but I would def remember that this is not what the start of a dialogue looks like.

thundern, my mother is sending similar packages to my brother, in relation to his homosexuality - namely hell fire damnation books - my brother sent a text saying thanks for the booklets!!!! smiley face too in the text. He felt he had to let them know it really doesnt bother him, that he can stand up for himself, they wont dictate anymore to him etc etc

rewlly wish all parents on this thread would just leave us all alone. right now, my parents have done a surprise visit to my elder sister (who they battered every day of her teenage years) as she has had no contact for months, and they think, self righteously, that they have a right to just turn up at her place of work, hundreds of miles away, to 'surprise her'. I feel for her today. It is just so cunning and nasty.

hugs to all of you here

I think you're all speaking wisdom here, and Firsttimer you are absolutely right - that's no way to open a dialog. Salbertina I did about six months of therapy to help manage my depression and OCD, but stopped in early autumn. I think perhaps it's time to go back.

I think I will, as suggested, do nothing. No reason to feed the beast. If more packages come, I might acknowledge that they've arrived but that's all, or maybe I'll send them back. We'll see.

Thanks for the help, comfort and advice.

Hi, long time lurker here. Sorry this will be long, but I could do with someone telling me I'm not mad.

Have been NC with my narc mum for 4 years. Have two elder Dsis's, who stayed in contact with her. She had been ill and even more difficult than usual. She died yesterday.

I've done 4 years work in therapy to deal with Mum's influence on my life, and am in a better place than I've ever been before. I was the 'favourite' (both Dsis's still use the phrase 'golden child'). During the last few years I've offered practical help where I could with Mum as I'm the closest geographically, and they accepted this when her flat needed to be cleared when she moved into a nursing home. I've also offered a listening ear as a way of trying to keep communication lines open.

Both have always resented me because of my being 'golden child' although neither are yet able to see that that was just as damaging to me. They are obviously massively resentful that I didn't deal with her during her final difficult years, although I was the main contact for many difficult years before that. They are still invested in making her needs more important than theirs/mine although are very good at rationalising it - "But she's our mother", "I would hate it if my children didn't talk to me" and (my favourite from Dsis2) "I do it out of humanity"!!

I had one snippy phone call from Dsis2 yesterday saying 'she thought I ought to know' Mum had died. I offered help but also said that we (DH and 2 DS's) are booked to go to the US over half term. I've left two messages for Dsis1 offering practical help as I'm nearest. No reply. No details of the funeral, although I've no wish to go anyway.

This morning I find a Facebook message from my nephew, Dsis1's son, offering to be 'peacemaker'. WTAF? I didn't even know there was a war on, and even if there is I would hope three adults could speak to each other.

I'm so fucking tired of being the bad guy in all of this. It's really important that I hold my boundaries, but I also understand their anger. I just think it's misplaced. Neither of them confronted Mum about her favouritism; I know how difficult that would have been and I also know none of us would have been heard if we did, but I'm tired of them taking it out on me.

Thanks for reading. I don't think there's a solution although just maybe now she's dead the work can start on us relating to each other without her there. Could take a while though. Anyone had anything like this? Any advice?

Ha! A one line email has just arrived from Dsis2 regarding funeral arrangements.. "not sure whether you will want to attend or not"...

Condolences, fresh. This must be a complicated time for you.

What led to you going NC 4 years ago?

Would you be willing to hear and acknowledge your sisters' resentment of your favoured treatment as a child? It was damaging to you, and it would be good for you if they were able to acknowledge that, but similarly, it was a damaging to them in a way that you did not experience, and I'm sure your acknowledgement of their feelings could go a long way to having you and your sisters start relating to each other again, which you say is what you want.

I find it strange that you ridicule your sisters' chosen reasons for continuing to have a relationship with your mother. It is their choice; more power to them. And to you, for yours. There is no "right" way to deal with a toxic parent; we all muddle through it as best we can.

Your sister's latest e-mail is pertinent: do you want to attend?

My condolences also, a real loss despite circumstances

My view -as scapegoat- is to try now to draw a line under the seeming triangulation that persisted, to her great advantage, during your dm's life ie communicate direct with your sisters notvia each other or a cousin, nephew etc.
This could be an opportunity for you and your sisters to acknowledge the past, to heal and rebuild your ties in a new way acceptable to all of you.

Thanks for the replies. HotDamn I have heard their resentment all my life. I have acknowledged it, face to face, with both of them. However, I've never had the courage to say how it affected me - fear of saying how I feel because Mum taught us that our feelings weren't important. Even after all this time, that pattern is still really hard to break, for them too. They are dealing with her belittlement of them, I know that. They have acknowledged that we have each made our choices, as have I. I've been trying to keep the lines open but for the moment, it looks like they're closed. Anything I say will be wrong now. No, I don't want to go to the funeral, both because I don't need to say goodbye to her and because I don't want to be attacked or coldly ignored. Sorry about the ridicule of their reasons, it's because I think they're not true, but I could easily be wrong.
Salbertina you're right, direct communication is the way although it might not happen for a while. Of course I won't go through my nephew, bless him. I hope it is an opportunity to heal, and I'm really trying to be adult with them but fuck me it's hard.
I'm not perfect. I'm not 'right'. But I do need to be heard.

Marking place, will post later.

Gosh, Fresh- must be super-hard right now . No need to explain yourself...or to rush what you do.

Thanks Salbertina, needed to hear that