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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families.

999 replies

singingprincess · 28/01/2012 13:25

There is a word document with all the relevant links which I will try and find, but in the meantime...Post away.

OP posts:
AttilaTheMeerkat · 01/05/2012 09:42

mampam,

God, your mother is completely and utterly dysfunctional isn't she (and that is my measured response). Well done you for cutting her completely off. I wonder what her own childhood was like, do you know anything at all about her background?. This is no excuse at all but her background could well provide clues.

I may be thinking of someone else here for which I apologise but is she the person who kept standing outside your DD1s school as well?.

Have often thought about having both ILs and BIL clinically assessed. That report would certainly make for interesting reading!.

handbagCrab · 02/05/2012 10:49

Hi all :)

Starting to disengaged with my parents. Since mothers day I have spoken to mum once on the phone. I rang her because I felt guilty I hadn't spoken to them in weeks! I know... She hadn't rung me because she was ill and didn't want to spread it to us. It was because she was supposed to visit me as she had a week off work but never rang to confirm when she was coming so didn't come. Ds is 22 weeks now and she still hasn't had the time off work she said she would to help me.

When I did speak to her she said she would do a shitty thing to me that's happening at work as well because that's just what does happen when someone has a baby, that their career should be fucked because of it. Cheers mum. She then went on about them changing their will to leave everything to me, then Ds and how dad is worried he'll end up in a home if she dies before him. I didn't say anything apart from that they should spend their money on themselves. I don't want it.

Someone on another thread here posted a link to something called the drama triangle. I will find it and link. I can say it's the first thing I've seen that accurately describes the dynamic between me and my parents. Mine eyes have been opened!

handbagCrab · 02/05/2012 10:57

Here we are www.angriesout.com/grown20.htm

FinallyFacingUpToIt · 04/05/2012 12:37

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mampam · 04/05/2012 12:50

handbag the dynamics of the triangle may change but do you think that it is your mum who controls it? So if you dare to speak out and get angry you become the perpetrator and she puts herself in the role of the victim? If your family dynamics are anything like mine you will never have the upper hand.

Attila My mother had my brother when she was 17, married his father but the marriage didn't last long. She met and married my father who is Nigerian. This must have been very controversial especially in the late 1970's in very rural south Devon where even today you very rarely see anyone who isn't white! I'm unclear on the finer details but when I was weeks/months old my father had to leave to go back to Nigeria (he was in the Navy so was either deployed or deported). He says (only found out about this 18 months ago) that it was impossible to leave or to communicate with the outside world as civil war had broken out in Nigeria.
My mother married my SF when I was about 8 years old, had another child with him. They are still married though god knows how he's put up with her for over 20 years. He started off ok, I was close to him but it's almost as if she has sucked the soul out of him over the years and now he is just a clone of her!

There must have been something seriously up with her childhood though as her sister is also seriously disturbed. Hers outs itself in the form of illness to gain attention. Migraines, backpain, gallbladder problems, breakdowns all of which there's always a tale attached that never seems to make sense and appears to be attention seeking. She's a pathological liar too (but then so is my mother). There is also no love loss between my mother and her sister more from my mother though, very jealous of her sister.

I do think my GF, from what I remember of him, was a classic Narc. His opinion was the only one that mattered and boy was he opinionated. My uncle once told me that on the way to the funeral of his GF (my GF's father), he was crying his eyes out in the car and was told in no uncertain terms to stop crying.
I remember that too as a child, we didn't cry, it's a sign of weakness Hmm

Wouldn't it be great if your ILs agreed to be clinically assessed? Grin Somehow can't imagine them agreeing! Isn't it funny how your DH turned out relatively "normal". I sometimes wonder how I managed it compared to the rest of them.

My FIL drives me insane, I haven't yet decided if he's just a total wanker or if he fits into the Narc category or bothSmile

mampam · 04/05/2012 12:54

Forgot to say that Attila yes it was my mother that turned up at DD1's school. It's hard for me to explain to people in RL why I found that so disturbing.

Thanks to everyone on this thread for believing me, understanding, empathising, making my feelings valid and for keeping me sane. Thank you Smile

FinallyFacingUpToIt · 04/05/2012 12:54

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FinallyFacingUpToIt · 04/05/2012 12:56

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mampam · 04/05/2012 12:59

Sorry missed your post Finally as was posting myself. Sounds as if your mother was jealous of the relationship you had with your father. I'm sure Attila will come and give you some great advice and will tell you to look up the website daughters of narcissistic mothers, it's a really great website so definitely have a look when you've got time.

So what is your current issue/question?

FinallyFacingUpToIt · 04/05/2012 13:17

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handbagCrab · 04/05/2012 13:23

mampam my dad is the perpetrator, mum is the rescuer and I'm the victim. We do change roles sometimes. I couldn't believe it when I read it! Goes to show there's nothing new under the sun!

mampam · 04/05/2012 13:56

handbag sorry I'm getting confused my 23 month old is running around having a paddy and I can't think straight! Grin
I bet it felt good to find/read about something you can directly identify with.

Finally Wow. Firstly you are not alone. I think everyone on this thread can identify with most of the points on the daughters of Narc mothers website. I had a similar situation with my wedding in that my mother was very unhelpful and more interested in having her hair done on the day than anything else, any of the important things and it's very hurtful.

Does your dad know about all the stuff she says regarding him bugging/spying on you? What does he say/think about it? TBH I think your mother is just being plain bloody awkward about not having a laptop/ipad and just wants her own way. She wasn't the one to suggest it so therefore it's wrong. It's the same with helping with the wedding. If I were you I'd stick to my guns. Or you could play her at her own game........"if you get a laptop you can help me choose a venue, but unless you do I'm afraid it is just not possible or practical to do this whilst only corresponding by letter....". I do however that trying to reason with her won't work but is it worth a try? Can your dad help?

FinallyFacingUpToIt · 04/05/2012 14:04

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FinallyFacingUpToIt · 04/05/2012 14:09

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mampam · 04/05/2012 14:42

Finally You do not have to make the effort if you don't want to. This is your wedding, this should all be about you not her. But then that's what a narcissist is excellent at doing...stealing the limelight. Your mother is trying make this wedding about her.

Her behaviour isn't normal. A loving mother would be happy for their daughter when she is getting married not trying to create problems and having her daughter in floods of tears. A loving mother is not perfect but always makes her child feel loved no matter what.

If this woman was not your mother would you even be thinking about whether or not you should put up with her speaking to you in this manner? Just because she is your mum you don't have to feel obligated to put up with her unreasonable behaviour.

Sounds to me as if you are coming to the end of your tether with her. I did with mine and the only way for me to move forward was to cut her out of my life but then she does only live 4 miles away if she lived in a different country I may well have been able to put up with it, I don't know.

You need to decide what to do. If you say to her "fine, just turn up to the wedding" is she likely to turn up and ruin the day somehow?

mampam · 04/05/2012 14:45

And....I feel the same and I'm sure I'm not the only one. I wish I had a "proper" mother and at times totally feel really hard done by for ending up with her.

handbagCrab · 04/05/2012 14:59

finally it's ok to not try and have a relationship with your mum. You can't really anyway. You can have a dictatorship where her thoughts and feelings are paramount. It's ok not to want that. My mum and dad and mil all tried to make my wedding all. about. them. It's so tedious, I hardly spoke to them on the day as they were impossible. They also made the birth of Ds all. about. them too. That's when I'd had enough!

mampam congrats on being able to mn coherently whilst toddler wrangling! I'm only able to as dh is home and helping with Ds :)

FinallyFacingUpToIt · 05/05/2012 02:19

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AttilaTheMeerkat · 05/05/2012 08:30

Hi FinallyFacing,

Have just seen this.

"I feel like I want someone to tell me that her behavious hasn't been normal, this is not how all mothers act, I am not being sensitive or unreasonable not to want to be spoken to in these ways.."

I will reiterate to you that her behaviours are not normal and this is not how all mothers act. You are not being at all insensitive or unreasonable here not to want to be spoken to like that. You would not put up with it from a friend, your mother is truly no different in this regard.

Detach and ignore your mother; she makes every occasion all about her. No contact of any sort. These boundaries you have; build them now even higher. Your future DH and you will have to continue to put on a united front. You are dealing with a narcissist mother of perhaps the engulfing kind (having no boundaries at all, is more than happy to go through your stuff, read mail, watch you on the toilet etc). You did NOT make her that way; her own birth family did that and I read without surprise that her own sister is a very damaged individual as well.

As Mampam rightly states, you cannot have a relationship with a narcissist; it does not ever work out at all well. Also such people will not and do not bring anything at all positive into the lives of any children you may go onto have so bear that in mind as well. Concentrate on your own family unit and surround yourselves with people who are decent, kind role models.

It is okay not to seek her approval any more, not that she would ever give this anyway.

Do look at the website called Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers; it could prove very helpful to you. There is also reference on there to enabling fathers (again do read this); your own Dad fits into that category very well. He was and remains her wingman; such weak men often act out of self preservation and want of a quiet life so you could never rely on him either to protect you.

Another book you may want to read is one called "Children of the Self Absorbed". Cannot recall author offhand but its on Amazon. That could also be helpful to you

I hope your wedding day goes well for you both.

Mampam, I thought it was your mother who turned up outside your DDs school. It is my dream to get both ILs and BIL clinically assessed. That report would certainly make for interesting reading. The drama triangle is certainly played out in their dysfunctional unit. I think he (DH) disappeared into the sanctuary of his bedroom a lot during his teens and knuckled down to pass him exams with a view to getting a job and leaving home. He left home as soon as a mortgage became available to him (a few years before we met).

I did ask him once if his Dad had ever hugged him as a child (DH hugs our now teenage son and has done from an early age, I certainly hug DS) and he just looked at me sadly without saying a word. Says an awful lot doesn't it?. My parents are pretty much disinterested and hands off now but at least the two of them both hugged us as young children and made us feel wanted and loved.

I think he took a hard look at the three of them when younger and decided to forge his own path through life for himself and behave differently to them. He has far more regard for his mother than his dad (whom he believes also to be a narcissist). So he has made progress.

All of you have my profound respect.

Have a great weekend.

Arana · 08/05/2012 13:21

Hi, I need some advice. I'm suffering from depression, and a visit from my self-absorbed genially toxic dad has totally screwed me up.

He has no idea the effect he has on me. He's been trying to call to see how I am, but I just can't face talking to him.

What do I do?

springydaffs · 10/05/2012 01:59

Send him a text just to get him off your back for a bit?

Arana · 10/05/2012 04:56

Saying what though?

HotDAMNlifeisgood · 10/05/2012 14:58

He has no idea the effect he has on me. He's been trying to call to see how I am, but I just can't face talking to him. What do I do?

Don't pick up the phone. Don't ring back. And don't kick yourself for it.

You are perfectly entitled not to speak to someone that you don't want to speak to. Honest!

HotDAMNlifeisgood · 10/05/2012 15:09

Let's break it down:

If you call him/pick up when he calls, you are doing what he wants, at the expense of what you want. The consequence is that you feel shit, and he is placated.

If you don't call/him, pick up when he calls, you are doing what you want, at the expense of what he wants. The conseuqence is that he is enraged, and you either a) feel shit because you can't cope with his displeasure, or b) feel less shit than you would have done if you had spoken to him, and are able to cope with his displeasure (and maybe even feel a little bit proud of yourself for putting your needs ahead of his for once)

Which outcome is the one you are willing to cope with? Your pain, or his?

Arana · 11/05/2012 03:24

Thank you for summing it up for me - just what I needed :)