Probably been done to death, but am I asking too much?

[cobwebthegrey]

I'll keep it brief. Married 10 years, He works, I am a SAHM. 2 DC's 7 and 2. He gets up with the kids in the morning and gives them breakfast, I do the night wakings with 2 yr old hwo has never slept through. He does a fairly regular 8.5 hrs, comes home, has his tea, bathes the kids and then we jointly put them to bed.

i ask that he loads the dishwasher and cleans the kitchen after supper, and puts the bins out once a week. i do EVERYTHING else. All housework, all finances, all holiday/birthday/ kids activity org. The lot. he thinks He pulls his weight, I think he should do more. Who is right?

Dreaming, he's a bit of a space cadet, he's very, VERY intelligent, but has not one ounce of common sense or practicality.

Whatever you do, don't compare him to 'most guys'. From what I've seen on this site and in RL, that's a really unhelpful yardstick.

Compare it to what you think is fair. And ditch all the male/female stuff. If you were sharing your life with a woman, would you expect her to do more?

Also, kids given a bath by him tonight. (well yongest, oldest is not pretty self sufficient in that respect) But bathroom looks like a bomb has hit it...nappies, clothes everywhere, wet towels in a heap on the floor. bathroom was immaculate beforehand...it's just so damned depressing to work so hard to make the house tidy and pleasant and then have everyone else treat it like the Hilton.

sternface, yes I would, but I will stick my sexist neck out and say I think that most women would just do it naturally.

Ah now that's something I had to seriously nip in the bud with DH cobweb - the doing a job and then leaving a horrendous mess after him. That drove me batshit crazy and I absolutely put my foot down over it. We now have a rule that if you do a job, you tidy up after it unless the other person offers to do it. So you do NOT under any circumstances skip off downstairs after bathtime and leave the bathroom in a tip, and you do NOT give DS a snack and then leave the bowl/yoghurt pot/banana skin on the countertop. Having to clean up after everyone is so demoralising, it makes you feel like a slave.

Do you do your DH's laundry? You could stop doing that, one less thing to think about.

Ah, see the lack of appreciation is totally different. I get that having been there so if I get a bottle of wine from a client or some vouchers for a project well done or whatever, 9 times out of 10 I will give those to DH as a thank you on the basis that without him I wouldn't be able to be there doing a good job.

When I get a bonus, we save some, and also have a bit each to spend on something "frivolous" as well. Being appreciated is HUGE and when you are at work you do get that. Being at home is hard if you don't get recognition for the sheer repetetiveness of what you are doing

I don't understand how a marriage works when one person says

"I need you to do more than you are because I am overwhelmed."

And the other person replies

"No, it is of utmost importance that I spend my time sitting on my fat, lazy hole doing nothing."

If your partner tells you they need help, you help them, right?

I'm with thelady - I just don't see why having a job means you get to have another adult cleaning up after you.

Why aren't these men ashamed of their inability to look after themselves and pull their weight?

Are they really OK with being so useless?

Could you talk to him about this in those terms?

Instead of saying, please can you clean up the kitchen at night, say: I feel at the moment like I'm always responsible for running the house and everyone treats it like a hotel. It's very demoralising to spend so much time cleaning and cooking and then it's all trashed soon after. It's stressful for me and it's not good for our relationship because we fight about it all the time. I think it would help if you would contribute a bit more. Would you be willing to do this? What would be the easiest things for you to do?

Basically, try to solve the problem together. You know, maybe it's a losing battle, cleaning the kitchen, but maybe there's something else that would also really help you out.

You said he's not very practical. I don't think this is a question of practicality, it's about whether he respects and cares about you enough to try to resolve this ongoing problem.

Oh that's sweet elvis

'we do get the same amount of downtime' - so what's the problem OP?

You say you feel responsible for everything in the home (appts, school etc) but maybe your DH also feels a weight of responsibility for working outside the home. I'm sure you both have pressures, but it doesn't need to be a competition.

I generally think it sounds like he does a fair amount, however what he does do needs to be done PROPERLY. Leaving towels everywhere is not on - my DH is the same. If I go out for the evening and he puts DCs to bed, I come home and find DDs school uniform is on the floor in her room, and DSs towel is on the landing carpet - grr!

Thanks for answering my question OP.

You'd expect more from a female partner and you think she'd naturally do what's expected?

Not naturally she wouldn't. Women aren't born with superior knowledge about caring for children or mopping a floor, but we're expected to do those things by both men and women, as you've admitted. And are judged when we don't, or if those things are not done to a high standard. Just as your H wasn't born with an innate ability to earn more money than you, or perform domestic tasks that seem to be the preserve of men in many households, like car maintenance, barbecue cooking or as I often see on these threads for some reason, garbage disposal .

As is so often the case in these situations, you both need to examine your attitudes to gendered roles and tasks. If you expect less of him than you would of a woman, you are part of your own problem.

I have to ask, because this always comes up on threads like this -- what is the deal with this idea that men must feel this pressure or responsibility for working outside the home and supporting the family?

How is that different from anyone who works and feels the pressure to keep working or else they can't pay the rent?

I mean, the DH works before DC -- he works after DC. Presumably there is the same feeling of, oh, I should try to keep my job so I can afford to live.

Whereas the SAHM goes from sharing responsibility for the home to having all the responsibility in the home. It's massively different.

Ah but stern, I DON'T expect less from him than I do a woman, hence this thread! :o

Thats so true Bohemian, I remind dh that without us he woukd still have to work to live, but without my family my kife would be vastly different...poorer certainly, but different. His argument would probably be that he would be able to do thw job he would like and live on subsistance wage rather than do the one he hates for a cery good wage. We are working to xhange that, I go back to setting up my business again and he retrains, but it's a long road and I aim for both of us to be happy with the share of chores before then.

Anyway, been out for a chat toight and have agreed to do those chores together, giving us chat time and making us both feel its done to a standard everyone is happy with. it means extra work for me, a bit, but it does mean I can get things done without having to nag amd feel like his mum!

Sorry for typos!

Well I happen to think that being financially responsible for 4 people is quite a significant responsibilty.

Not at all the same as being only responsible for oneself.

At times in my life I've had the sole financial responsibility for 5 people Red but it's never reduced my ability to pick up after myself or load a washing machine.

And OP, if you've ended up with more work than before you had your chat, how is that progress?

I wasn't saying he shouldn't do any housework. I was responding to ops comment that she felt she had all the responsibilty.

Fair enough Red

Mean the responsibility for how our pives are run Red, I accept that earning enough for four of us is a big thing, but most adults BEFORE they have kids are responsible for at least themselves and manage to do they're domestic chores, finances etc too. i suppose it is dependant on whether you feel the rest of lifes responsibilities are equal to providing financially. IME earning a living was much MUCh easier than being a 24/7 mother...and I worked long hours in the city with a sizable commute before setting down.

Stern, I think we both knew we weren't spending enough time together too, so it means we are doing something together, he's helping out more (he'll be helping out with more chores than the kitchen now) and we still both get downtime when we can do our own thing.

Glad you talked it through and found a workable solution OP. It's hard because imo there are just not enough hours full stop, whether you work or stay home. There is always something that NEEDS doing before you can just do somethig you WANT to do. Sigh...

"If you both worked, you'd split the housework 50-50, right? Why should dads suddenly get an easy ride if their partner becomes a SAHM? They must be laughing all the way to the couch"

What an absolute load of old shit.

I have been a SAHM and I have worked full time. I did both jobs with gusto and I know 100% which is easier. OP, your other half sounds like a diamond.

And it shouldn't be about "expecting".

This is us with one 18 month old:

• dd comes in with us when she wakes, sometime between 5 and 7.
• dh gets up at 0645, I stay in bed with dd andwe read.
• 0715, we all go downstairs, dh goes to work, we have coffee/milk.
• end of day he gets home between 430 and 5, takes dd to play while I finish dinner or vice versa
• we eat together about 6
• he bathes her while I tidy kitchen and load dishwasher, or vice versa.
• alternate who.does bed, whoever isn't walks the dog.
• both sit down approx the same time, between 7 and 730 pm.

We share tidying up after ourselves when he is home, I do all day to day tidying/cleaning/admin/ washing during the day as it makes sense for me to do it when home. We share everything at weekends, and have one lie in (till 10ish) each.

I feel this is fair, I do more housework etc (and paperwork, we're selling and buying houses at the mo) but it makes sense for me to do so as I am not at work.

When dc2 arrives in May then I guess things may naturally shift.