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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Can I have your opinion on this please?

72 replies

alternateID · 30/12/2011 23:38

Something happened between me and H a few weeks ago which I considered to be a marriage ending event. The short version is that after nearly 3 months of problems between us, caused by his (not entirely unfounded) jealousy he flipped and attacked me verbally and physically. It happened after a very large amount of alcohol had been consumed by both of us during a night out together, but we had actually been having a very nice time and there was no hint of bad feeling or tension between us directly before it happened. In fact, we had just had sex. Suddenly his mood changed and he started screaming at me and calling me all kinds of disgusting names. He was just so clearly full of hate and anger. I was utterly shocked and after a few minutes I tried to get away from him and he grabbed me by the arms and continued to shout obscenities in my face. He wasn't hurting me but I was very scared. Eventually he pushed me away from him sharply and I landed on my back on the bedroom floor. He then climbed into bed and fell asleep. The next morning he couldn't remember anything much but had a hazy recollection of holding me by the arms. I had three sets of bruises on my upper arms which lasted a week or so and a sore back and shoulders which lasted a day or two.

Now, here's the thing. I considered this to be a deal breaker. Ok, so he didn't beat me up or anything, but he left bruises on me and terrified me. I honestly thought it was a no-brainer, just completely unacceptable. However, I have told the story to a small number of people (including a counsellor which H voluntarily went to see after this happened) and without exception they have all played it down. No one has said to me that that kind of behaviour is unacceptable. Both the counsellor and my mother have effectively taken his side I feel, and made me feel like I have massively overreacted to what he did.

There are some mitigating factors I suppose, I have had feelings for someone else but not acted on them in any way. H knows about my feelings and knows I haven't done anything about them but he has been tortured by jealousy for months and is very stressed as a result. In my opinion this does not in any way excuse his behaviour but everyone else I've spoken to seems to feel otherwise. Who's right? I would really appreciate some honest opinions. Thanks.

OP posts:
LadyMedea · 30/12/2011 23:43

Only you know what is a deal breaker for you. Go with your own instincts.

solidgoldbrass · 30/12/2011 23:49

Look, even if you had had sex with an entire rugby team that would not make it acceptable for him to physically attack you. Breaches of monogamy may not be very nice, but they are far less morally wrong than violent assaults, and infidelity does not EVER count as a justification for hitting a partner.
Living with a jealous partner is horrible. OK, living with a partner who has declared a sexual interest in someone else is horrible, too, but the only sanction that is really ethical and acceptable is to say 'I don't want to be in this relationship with you if you prefer someone else to me' and leave. Not beat you up. That's not ok.
And TBH if your current officially designated partner is someone who thinks it is OK to attack you for thinking about infidelity, no wonder you are thinking about it. Your current partner is a possessive knob. I'd be out the door or putting him out through it.

Helltotheno · 30/12/2011 23:49

It would be a dealbreaker for me no question but everyone's different.

Also though.. I have attraction towards other people now and again. I consider this pretty normal in a long-term relationship but I'd just never see a need to tell my h, unless I'd acted on them or whatever. But again, other people might.

overmydeadbody · 30/12/2011 23:50

For me, that would be a deal breaker, without a doubt.

Even without the physical stuff, shouting obscenities in your face?! No way would I still be with someone who did that to me, no way.

I love my DP more than anything, he is wonderful and lovely and brilliant and perfect, but if he did what your DH did, out of the blue, I would leave him instantly. Seriously.

That is terrible and unacceptable. Of all the people in the world you should be able to trust your own H not to behave like that. There are no excuses for behavior like that.

Noellina · 30/12/2011 23:51

I couldnt possibly tell you to leave your husband as i do not know the full story. However, hitting or pushing somebody is never acceptable no matter the situation.
It's a shame that you feel that you family thinks that it is your fault.
If i were you, i would talk to the husband and see what he thinks.

It's definitely not your fault.

TooEasilyTempted · 30/12/2011 23:55

Interesting responses so far. There was a similar thread recently only the poster was a woman who attacked her partner and the overwhelming majority seemed to be that it was ok because she didn't do him that much harm and she was enraged with jealousy.

Fwiw I think violence in any form, and whether it's the first time or the 20th time, would be a deal breaker for me and if I were you I'd be off like a shot.

FairstiveGreetings · 30/12/2011 23:58

Who told you the counsellor played it down? Did they speak to you directly or is that what your H told you?

Original poster
alternateID · 30/12/2011 23:59

Thank you. It's helpful to know that others would find it a dealbreaker too as that's not the feedback I've received from anyone in RL so far. We have children together so perhaps people feel I've been hasty as it is really a once off event and not ongoing agressive behaviour. Although he did once drunkenly throw a drink in my face because he thought I had been flirting with his brother. I wasn't in the slightest, I can't stand his brother.

Incidentally, I did not tell H about my feelings for the other person. I posted about it on here looking for advice about how to deal with it and H snooped accidentally came across it. I would never have told him.

OP posts:
Helltotheno · 31/12/2011 00:03

The fact that he snooped makes the whole thing even worse, plus the new info about his brother. A jealous and possessive man = a dangerous man in my opinion, and I would honestly consider your future if I were you.

solidgoldbrass · 31/12/2011 00:03

TET: I remember that thread. I posted on that one to the effect that the man's infidelity DID NOT justify the woman's physical attacks on him.
OP: The reason you are getting a hard time is because a lot of stupid people think that breaches of monogamy are a justification for violence. This is bullshit. Your H has form for unreasonable jealousy and violence, that makes him a loser and a tosspot and it's understandable that you were attracted to someone else. Jealous tosspots who feel entitled to use violence to enforce monogamy are crappy partners.

TooEasilyTempted · 31/12/2011 00:04

SGB yes I remember you were one of the few that said that.

Original poster
alternateID · 31/12/2011 00:07

God the replies are so quick on here, I can't keep up!

Noellina H is also playing it down, he says he is horrified it happened but said to the counsellor that I bruise easily and called it "roughing me up" when I said I felt he attacked me.

FairstiveGreetings after H's first session with the counsellor she asked if I would go and speak to her too, along H. I went and gave her my version of events in person but I didn't have the opportunity to speak to her on my own.

OP posts:
FairstiveGreetings · 31/12/2011 00:08

Jealousy, alcohol and violence are an extremely dangerous combination. He has already got you questioning whether this attack was somehow your 'fault'. Be careful that you don't start to think of his behavioiur as 'normal' or excuseable. It's not. I would not want to live with a man I could not trust.

Original poster
alternateID · 31/12/2011 00:17

Thanks. I pretty much instantly arrived at the conclusion that I didn't want to live with a man like that either. He has moved out and has agreed to continue with counselling to see if that helps him with the jealousy. He also agreed to stop drinking, but that hasn't happened. I have been clear with him from the moment this happened that it means the end of our marriage but it's other people's responses that have shaken my resolve. I feel that no one is on my side.

To be fair SGB, he didn't beat me up and he doesn't really have form for violence. We are together a long time and there hasn't been any other incidents apart from this one and the drink throwing thing.

OP posts:
Original poster
alternateID · 31/12/2011 00:21

I know it's stupid but I do feel partly responsible for the jealousy at least. I can see how that was driving him crazy, but there were lots of red flags in relation to his behaviour in the run up to this, and I even sent him a text at one point telling him that he was becoming so irrational that I was getting scared of what he might do. He told me I was being over dramatic Hmm

OP posts:
squeakytoy · 31/12/2011 00:21

He has thrown a drink over you.

You stay with him.

It escalates to..

He has physically grabbed you and left bruises during an argument.

You stay with him..

It escalates to..

I will let you fill in the blanks there...

He WILL escalate this, and he WILL be violent again towards you.

squeakytoy · 31/12/2011 00:23

To be fair SGB, he didn't beat me up and he doesn't really have form for violence. We are together a long time and there hasn't been any other incidents apart from this one and the drink throwing thing.

I was in a relationship with someone for 4 years. We got engaged, we had bought a house together. He had never laid a finger on me in those 4 years.

He beat the shit out of me one day because he thought I had been flirting with someone.

anonacfr · 31/12/2011 00:24

So "roughing you up" is OK then? Nice.

The fact that both incidents involved drinking and that despite you asking him he hasn't stopped is another dealbreaker.
If he was really sorry and desperate to get you back he'd stop.

solidgoldbrass · 31/12/2011 00:25

Bin him love. He is fixated on the idea that you are property and that violence whenever he imagines threats to his ownership of you is justified. People like this don't get better. The cultural myth that violence in 'defence' of monogamy is not just justifiable but 'romantic' contributes to a lot of people being murdered by jealous partners.

TheSecondComing · 31/12/2011 00:29

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
alternateID · 31/12/2011 00:32

squeakytoy, I agree. I told the counsellor I saw this incident as an escalation of the previous occasion when he threw the drink over me but she didn't comment. I have arranged to see her in January, just me on my own without H. Maybe she will respond differently then as perhaps she didn't want to alienate H during his own counselling session.

H does not in any way see himself as a violent or indeed normally jealous person so I am shocked that he has played down his actions to himself and to others. He definitely blames me and the feelings I had for the other person on his actions.

He desperately wants us to work things out and get back together. I can't see a time in the future when I would ever fully trust him again Sad

OP posts:
solidgoldbrass · 31/12/2011 00:33

Thing is, decent monogamous people don't feel entitled to commit assault or criminal damage when a partner breaches monogamy. They suffer, they cry, they get angry, they might rant to friends or drink too much or be miserable but they don't get violent. They might leave the relationship, or at least consider it, and that's fair enough. People who throw things or hit out when they just suspect a breach of monogamy are losers and arseholes and get deservedly dumped.

solidgoldbrass · 31/12/2011 00:35

AlternateID: It's ok to end the relationship. If that's what you want to do, it's fine. No one has the right to insist on continuing a relationship that the other person wants out of.

Original poster
alternateID · 31/12/2011 00:39

TSC I have stopped drinking. He stopped for 2 days then started again when the counsellor told him she didn't think drink was the real issue Hmm

SGB He said the jealousy is only because he loves me so much. I told him it doesn't feel like love, it feels like ownership.

squeakytoy That's awful. I'm so sorry.

OP posts:
squeakytoy · 31/12/2011 00:39

H does not in any way see himself as a violent or indeed normally jealous person so I am shocked that he has played down his actions to himself and to others. He definitely blames me and the feelings I had for the other person on his actions.

Sadly that is very typical behaviour of someone who is abusing someone else. It also shows that he has absolutely no remorse at all for what he has done to you.

I have wound my husband up, I am no angel.... he has never raised a finger to me.. oh, he has punched the wall... he has kicked the door.. but never ever has he been violent towards me, and that is one of the reasons I love him, because he makes me feel safe. I can be me, I can raise my voice if I am angry, I can shout, and I can have a good old nag at him if needs be, without being scared of how he might react. It took me a long time to feel that way after two previous relationships where I had really picked arsehole men. You cannot live a life walking on eggshells, second guessing, and picking your words or actions carefully "just in case you upset him". It is not healthy.