Domestic Violence or just a row that got out of hand?

[LolnWoody]

I'll try and be brief.

DP asks if I fancy going to the cinema on wednesday night (last night). I said not really as I really need to revise for an exam and get my assignment finished. He went in a grump but left it there.

Last night I was up in the bedroom on my laptop. He came in and I was on facebook. He said "I thought you were studying??" and I said "I am, I'm just having a break".

To cut a long section of the story short, a row then erupted where he accused me of lying to him, deliberately avoiding spending any time with him and "blowing hot and cold" with him. I told him he was being ridiculous and paranoid. I went downstairs and put the kettle on. He followed me and carried on the row in the kitchen. Voice rising and becoming more animated until he was right in my face shouting at me. I told him I'd discuss it with him when he'd calmed down (was this patronising?? I didn't mean it to be). At this point he snarled at me "You and your fucking mind games" and poked me hard in the head (enough to make me slightly off balance).

My natural instinct here was to push him away from me which I tried to do but he whacked my arm away and pushed me backwards so I fell onto the oven (it wasn't on thank god) lost my footing and fell over. His first response to this was "for fucks sake, that was your own fault" and he came to help me up.

I went to leave the room, he prevented me from doing so and said I wasn't leaving until we'd discussed it. I told him I was leaving the room until we'd both calmed down. He grabbed my arm as I tried to push past and I tried to knock it away from me, he went nuts and put his hand under my jaw and pushed me against the wall (to anyone else it would have looked like he had me by the throat but it wasn't, it was my jaw, not that it makes it any better you just trying to be clear so not to drip feed). I caved at this point, began to cry and told him he was hurting me. He let go straight away and put his hands on his head and said he was sorry. I then left the room and went back upstairs.

He has since acted like it was no big deal and has apologised etc. I don't know what to think. He never actually hit me and only pushed me when I pushed him. He is stressed with work and christmas etc. As am I. So is this just a row that got out of hand or worse?

Absolutely...Mumsnet has probably saved my life actually, and if I can give a bit back, of all the knowledge I have gained, then I do so more than willingly.

No soap opera, no cheap thrills, just a genuine and heartfelt desire to help another woman out of this situation.

And seeing it for what it actually is, is one of the first, and biggest steps. And probably the most heartbreaking one, because ultimately, there is only one way to go, and it takes strength and courage and massive support to do that. IE eventually leave.

The support of the women and some men on here helped me get out, if I can help someone else, well good.

becauseimperfect and daisystone speak a lot of sense. There is a lot of hypocrisy and many drama lovers on these threads. One thing ok for women but not for men. What he did wasn't acceptable but DV? Maybe. Are you happy usually? i've had the odd sulky BF doesn't make them an abuser. You can pick up on any detail and scream DV but its the overall picture that is important. I think what a poster early on said was very good advice. Both of you agree that during rows you will allow the other person to leave the room when they need to calm down and agree not to touch each other in any way. He may just be someone who finds apologising hard, some people do, again doesn't make them an abuser. I think blaming you is a bad one and i'd be worried about that. If I was otherwise happy and if it hadn't happened before i'd be inclined to work things through. I personally would be very clear to him though that do it again and the relationship can't be salvaged. Good luck and take care.

OK, OK, I 'know' many of you here and some of you 'know' me.

I am no longer in an abusive relationship.

Would I personally tolerate what the OP describes above now, in a new relationship? NO. Because I personally couldn't risk getting even remotely stuck in a situation like that again.

BUT.

In this instance I suggest the following:

LolnWoody This behaviour, even in the heat of the moment is UNACCCEPTABLE. TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE

You need to TELL your DH that his behaviour WAS abusive, that he abused his strength advantage over you, intimidated you, verbally abused you, and imprisoned you.

OK so he said Sorry, but that is not enough.

You need to tell him that this is the VERY last time he ever thinks of raising a hand or even a voice to you. Ever.

A repeat or near repeat of this will spell the immediate end to the relationship and that you WILL call the police, you WILL press charges and you WILL get an injunction out on him. You need to absolutely mean every single word of that too.

We are all able and entitled to lose our tempers once in a while, but that behaviour is a deal breaker and will never be allowed in your relationship.

Tell him that he is in possible the very deepest hole he has ever been in and that he needs to put in some SERIOUS work into getting out of it.

Give the challenge to him, make sure he knows that he is responsible for what happens next. If he treats you with the respect you deserve, if he works to make this up to you and to regain your trust, that will be that.

You need to weigh up how he is in everything else, if he is ticking any other red flag boxes, you need to be honest with yourself and you need to really think about what you are getting out of this and why on earth you would commit yourself to a life of fear and misery.

In a nutshell, I advocate reading him the riot act, not accepting this behaviour and drawing a line. The consequences of crossing that line are immediate. he has to understand that.

If his behaviour doesn't dramatically improve, then you need to rethink things.

If you have more information for us, then I will revise my advice accordingly.

OP, here's a question. What do you expect this relationship to be like in future? If he's pressuring you to go out, will you be more inclined to say yes? Will you be looking out for ways to keep him happy? An abuser isn't just "losing" his temper, he's "using" it to train you into doing the things he wants. From your description, this sounds like classical abuse to me.

A few people on here seem strangely invested into normalizing this experience. It isn't normal. You don't want to lead the kind of life where it is normal.

(And yes, I've been in that situation. It took me another few months after that to get out. A waste of time, all that hoping it would get better).

the sad thing is that you dont know that this is domestic violence.

it clearly is

your decision now is - do you live with this?

It's a route to being in control of you, OP, that's for sure.

Ok to point out that the OP has posted this at 11am and not been back since?

We have NOTHING other than this account of potentially an isolated incident to go on.

Can we just wait for an update?

Behaviour like this is NOT acceptable, it ought NOT to be normalised, but it can ONLY be normalised if it is routine. There is nothing to suggest this is the case, this is an account of ONE day.

If she puts him damned straight, and he listens. GOOD. If not, she needs to get outta there and fast. That is THAT.

FWIW, Abusers don't need anger management. They are not really angry. They manufacture that anger, looking for and seizing on anything to kick off about. It's true that they don't lose their temper, they USE them, I agree. People can make really shitty choices, we all CAN make seriously bad mistakes.

She cried, he stopped. Most abusers wouldn't. They realise they have got her and will carry on until SHE loses it, THEN blame her loss of control for what they have had to do, and to justify their behaviour. That didn't happen here apparently.

I think it's reaction afterwards that is key. My DH and I were having a stupid argument once, I said something to mock him and he pretended to hit me in the face, but connected by mistake. I got a terrible shock and basically left him where he was standing and went home (we were in town at the time). He rang and rang me, apologised profusely, promised me nothing like that would ever happen again, that he would never raise his hand even to pretend to hit me, bought me flowers, the whole shebang. Even though I know it was a mistake I still made sure at the time not to rush to forgive him and to let him know that even play aggression wasn't on. He understood my anger and was mortified at what had happened. We sorted it out, and it was fine. In the ten years since then he's never even been slightly aggressive with me, but if I had seen a hint of aggression again I would have been gone. I am physically a lot weaker than he is, and he knows that, so for him to use that against me would be very wrong and I would not accept it in any form.

Your DP is making out that it was nothing. The thing is, you were at a huge disadvantage in that argument. Both of you can use words but only one of you can inflict serious harm on the other, which puts you in a very vulnerable position. You have to be able to trust that your partner won't use your vulnerability against you. If you can't trust them, then what's the point in being with them? You should never feel afraid of someone who is supposed to love you.

LolnWoody you seem from your OP to be uncertain as to whether your partner's behaviour is normal. It really isn't. I once thought it was normal to my cost, it got so much worse.

Only you can say how sorry he really is, but anyone can just say it, or if it is an isolated incident. What is he doing to ensure it doesn't happen again? From your OP he doesn't come across as very remorseful. That's really not a good sign. Neither is trying to prevent you from extricating yourself from the situation. Neither is telling you it is your own fault you slipped after he pushed you. There certainly shouldn't be any possibility of a repeat.

You know your partner and the history of your relationship. Have there been any other incidents? Is he controlling generally? His reaction strikes me as extreme and unusual, given the circumstances you post.

MN threads wane as people feel that they have said all they can. It doesn't mean they don't care and you can always start another one. It has been a real lifesaver for me, and the advice I've received stays with me. You may decide that you don't need to anything further, or at least for now, but please bear the advice you've received here should you ever need it.

Good luck.

Domestic violence - definitely. Right from when he poked you and knocked you off balance. How hard was that poke?

I think the people who have a different "point of reference" mean that they are willing to accept violence from someone in a relationship

And seem invested in telling others they could do so, and all is likely to be well

And comparing the poor lady who lashed out at her husband when his OW rang her home to the non-event that sparked off this incident is ridiculous

OP...your partner physically attacked you with little to no provocation

Is that the kind of partner you want ?

Poking somebody in the head is a sign of severe contempt of the person being poked

It's intimidating and belittling in the extreme

OP, it sounds like DV. It sounds like the kind of thing my ex husband used to do.

How are you LolnWoody? Please come back and let us know you're ok, if you can.

Hope ur ok OP come back soon.

I would ask him to leave, yes its DV.

This kind of thing was how things started with my ex, DV can creep up on you so slowly it can be difficult to pinpoint its exact start, it ended a year and a half later with him almost killing me.

I REALLY wish I'd known about red flags back then.

well if the OP comes back at all, yes you have been subject to an episode of domestic violence. It may well be that this fact compromises your 'self-image' in that this sort of hting happens to other people. But dealing with that issue will be a lot less painful than ignoring the DV.

The thing that alarmed me beyond the actual violence was his "for fucks sake, that was your own fault" .... see, he's right in the middle of what he might claim to be an out of control row, but he manages to slip in a way of blaming his victim for what he had just done. And he did the same thing with his "your mind games" comment.

That and the fact he has since acted like its no big deal.

If he had been desperately upset by his actions I might have thought it was a row that he allowed to escalate way way out of control. But he shifted the blame onto you not once but twice and doesnt appear to be remorseful. Neither of which fill me with much hope tbh.

I'm getting increasingly concerned that the OP hasn't come back...

totaly unacceptable, this relationship should definatly be terminated now.

Violence is violence right. Unless you are female OK.

For the MN stalking database. I've never experienced or dished out violence in my marriage. Ever.

Hiss your advice is good and I see you got out of a relationship. Shame your stance has been twisted too.

BecauseImperfect - criticising posters on this thread for what different posters have said on a different thread is a bit pointless.

It's also not very helpful to the OP.

And Domestic Abuse can comprise other things than simple violence, hence why there are more red flags in this behaviour than just the physical assault the OP was subjected to.

I can't judge if this was a one off or not or whether you should stay with him or not OP, but I can say that this behaviour is not normal or OK and I personally wouldn't stick around to see if it happened again.