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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

is it abuse if he raises fists (regularly) but does not actually hit me:

98 replies

Isitrightorwrong · 15/12/2011 12:00

He says its because I make him so angry - and yes I see his point sometimes but sometimes I don't know how I pushed that button.....

I am at fault partly I guess becuase I need to talk over things alot and that seems to annoy him - he just likes to ignore issues. So, I suppose its what is called nagging.

But I feel so alone, so isolated so unable to control anything anymore. What am I doing wrong?

OP posts:
waterrat · 15/12/2011 13:00

love, a supportive partner would be MORE caring and loving when you are anxious. I am an anxious person - my partner just gives me hugs and helps me calm down. Please stop looking within yourself for the reason for his aggression. This is the fact - he is being aggressive in response to your need for more love and help.

Then, making it so much worse, he blames you - you, his partner and mother of his children who is sufering with PND. What kind of a man does that make him? it makes him a weak and angry man who wants you to suffer for his faults.

Redrubyblues · 15/12/2011 13:01

Has he told you that you are irrational and emotional or are those your own words?

BamBam21 · 15/12/2011 13:03

You have 2 small DCs, you have been diagnosed with PND, and instead of facing up to this, your H is using intimidation to make you shut up. It's wrong and totally unacceptable. You deserve so much better. I truly hope that you can find somebody supportive and understanding in RL, and hopefully find the courage to leave.

Original poster
Isitrightorwrong · 15/12/2011 13:16

The current big issue is that we are living in my house which I brought for me as a single girl and its too small for the four of us. He has promised to get a bigger one (money is not a problem for that) but continues to delay this for one reason or another (job, too tired, does not know where etc etc etc). I don't mind a delay its not knowing if or when or being about to contribute to an outcome. Yes we are both knackered as all parents are at the beginning but reolving small issues like a faulty fridge by researching fridges / viewing them does not get us any closer to a house where we would not be on top of each other all the time and I might have a chance to keep things tidy and managable (which he moans about all the time). How the hell can I keep things tidy when there is no where to put them!!??? I've had to tip my clothes out of the drawers so the kids have drawers but there is still no where to put cot number two.

OP posts:
cestlavielife · 15/12/2011 13:24

housing yes can be a source of streess but you have two very small children right now. so it is doable.
but his reaction and his way of dealing with stress is not right. and it is threatening to you.

are you married?

if not married then be very careful before setting up joint owned home with him and losing your own home.

is he a very big earner? (you say money not an issue?)
would new hosue invovle selling yours?

malinkey · 15/12/2011 13:38

Again, his moaning all the time about you not keeping things tidy and manageable when you have PND and two small children is not the action of a kind loving partner.

Have a look at this poster from the Freedom programme and see which one your partner is.

LittleWhiteWolf · 15/12/2011 13:42

Your partner is a bully. He should be supporting you more than ever with two under two and PND.

WannabeMegMarch · 15/12/2011 13:53

Haven't read all the replies...but yes, your partner is being abusive. You don't make him do anything. Its not ever your fault that he raises his fist/voice/insults you. You may have PND but how much is due to his behaviour, lack of empathy for you? and how much is due to your natural exhaustion having 2 little LOs.
Your partner should have enough humanity to look after the mother of his children; its the greatest gift he can give them.
You asked so...yes I would say get out before you are in too deep. You are already in deep enough as you cant distance yourself to see this is not reasonable behaviour.
It wont be easy but it wont be much harder than managing two under two with an unsupportive partner. In some ways easier.

ItsMeAndMyPuppyNow · 15/12/2011 14:17

Yes, this is abuse.

Your having PND does not in any way justify the intimated threat of physical violence.

Domestic abuse often escalates during pregnancy and after childbirth: it has nothing to do with the woman being "irrational", and everything to do with the abuser 1) feeling more confident that the victim is now well and truly "trapped", and 2) feeling angry that the victim's attention is now turned to other things than his own all-important self.

You have your own house, in your own name? Good. Keep it that way.

pollyblue · 15/12/2011 14:26

yes, having two very small dcs is stressful, the majority of posters on here know that I expect. But the fact you have PND makes his behaviour worse in my opinion - you are very vulnerable right now and less able to stand your ground or deal with the situation pro-actively.

In answer to your post regarding whether it's worth trying to save the relationship - do you think he is capable of changing his behaviour, or wants to change his behaviour? Because I'll go back to the point about him saving his fist-raising bullying behaviour for you, does he behave like this towards other people? I doubt it. And do you really need the stress at this time of his behaviour?

FlappyBaps · 15/12/2011 14:38

Just so I understand, did your "friend" help you with what is essentially a list of reasons that justify his behaviour?? I can see that perhaps they don't want to be seen to be pushing you to end it with your partner but from the responses on here you should be able to see that this behaviour is not on and you are going to need friends around you who support you properly. Do you have anyone else in RL that you can rely on?

Marymoo73 · 15/12/2011 14:58

You have PND, I've been there and was tearful, manic and unreasonable and every day was a struggle. An understanding partner would allow for this and support you, not raise a fist to you. This is NOT your fault. As other posters have said, he wouldn't do this to a bloke in the street! If you dont stop this now, its only a matter of time before he follows through. Please dont tolerate this. Is there somewhere you can go?

OldeChestnut · 15/12/2011 15:05

would he be willing to go to some sort of professional help with you so that you can both talk through issues and help each other to cope

ItsMeAndMyPuppyNow · 15/12/2011 15:09

Relationship counselling is not recommended in couples where there is abuse, oldeCestnut. Relate, for example, won't see couples together if there is abuse.

If either one of you wants to go for solo counselling for your own selves, though, that could certainly be a path towards change (and improvement).

Original poster
Isitrightorwrong · 15/12/2011 15:27

Thanks so much for your words. I find it of great comfort and its also quite tear jerky.

I think legally if I own my own house i can tell him to leave - which is what I did this morning when he raised his fists to me in front of one of the kids. That was a final straw. I said I want you to leave because I am afraid you are going to hit me. He of course said he will not hit me and that I make him so angry by being unreasonable and unkind (I was not nice to him this am). I have flu and he was leaving for work so I was upset and indeed not nice to him. Where can I double check my rights?

Its the question of the kids.... more than anything...

He has refused to go to any sort of professional help. I have been on my own but got nowhere.

I wonder whether I might have more strength to deal with this after i start the pills?

Sorry that my thoughts are so splatted on the page - its between feeds and nappy and playing so its not really joined up thinking.

Oh, no of course he does not raise his fists to other people. He is very nice to me when people are visiting. I do wonder if he is suffering from undiagnosed Asbergers sometimes.

OP posts:
ItsMeAndMyPuppyNow · 15/12/2011 15:36

Doesn't matter what, if any, diagnosis might apply to him: if he refuses to get professional help, and if you suffer from his behaviour, then it is not a safe or acceptable situation for you or the children to be in.

CAB can help you on your legal questions, although I am certain that, as hte home ownder, you are perfectly entitled to tell him to leave, change the locks, etc.

The kids will have a much healthier life (and example to learn from) by not witnessing his abuse of you in their home.

And Hmm Angry at the classic abuser's line of: "It's your fault, you made me angry." Doesn't matter what you said or did, OP: he is and always will be responsible for his own actions (as you are for yours). Neither you nor anyone else can "make" him raise his own fist at you.

ItsMeAndMyPuppyNow · 15/12/2011 15:36

excuse egregious typos.

FlappyBaps · 15/12/2011 15:37

That's another excuse that you are making for him, OP. He obviously recognises what he is doing because he's trying to explain it away. Even if you wait for the pills to kick in before you DO anything please start trying to arm yourself with information and help and support now so you have everything you need when you make your move. Contact the Citizens Advice Bureau for free advice on housing etc - they may even have a website with answers to some of your questions. And speak to your home visitor: mine was very "up" on domestic abuse as it was a hot topic for them so yours may be able to help with more info and support.

pretendhousewife · 15/12/2011 15:55

OP - what was your relationship like before, how long have you been together and do you know any of his ex-partners or about his previous relationships?

Redrubyblues · 15/12/2011 16:01

I am pretty sure one day he will hit you. It won't start with a punch, it will be a shove or a slap and then one day you will putting make up over the cuts and bruises.

pretendhousewife · 15/12/2011 16:09

OP be careful, please seek advice from Womens Aid before you decide to kick him out. (You will kick him out I hope, your children are very young and will be fine, as will you x).

The thing you mention about not making plans - it's a way for him to retain control and therefore part of the abuse.

JamieComeHome · 15/12/2011 16:11

I had PND and anxiety and I'm sure it was frustrating for my DH at times. But he has supported me and helped me get better.

Your "D" His inability to cope with normal marital interactions and pressures without threatening you is his problem.

I think the medication might help you to take the steps you need to, but start making some steps as FlappyBaps says. Seizing some control of your situation will also make you feel better - don't wait.

cestlavielife · 15/12/2011 16:14

no if he was aspergers or some such he would not have the knowledge/wherewithal to change his behaviour for other people he would be the same to all.

"you made me do it" is classic line - you could turn it back and say - "as i make you angry you need to leave. "

talk to your health visitor please they may have numbers for local orgs which can help you, listen to you etc

Original poster
Isitrightorwrong · 15/12/2011 17:02

I am so afraid of making the wrong move and loosing the kids. I rang Womans Aid and (although not a legal person) she felt I would be ok legally re house and throwing out. I need to seek formal legal advice too. Where can I go for that (I mean the stuff you pay for).

OP posts:
ItsMeAndMyPuppyNow · 15/12/2011 17:04

Women's Aid can probably point you to a lawyer who understands abuse situations.