Is my marriage normal or does it sound sort of abusive?

[thebighouse]

I'm feeling very confused about my marriage. Recently I have fallen in love with someone else (I know this is terrible and makes me a total shit but please bear with me) and it has made me realise the massive discrepancy between the way my DH treats me and the way this other person treats me. I've been reading some of the emotional abusive threads on here which has really made me think.

But I don't know whether I am being really horrible to DH to think this way? He says I am seeing our marriage badly now, because I want to leave (which is true). He is a fantastic dad to our children and does loads around the house. But with me, it's always somewhat different because I seem to trigger a rage in him so often.

Some examples of things that upset me:

• he gets so angry with me sometimes. We can't disagree about anything because it will trigger him into anger and sometimes he won't speak to me for days. He says that he just needs time to get over whatever I've said (nothing of any importance usually) and doesn't mean to blank me - but he does. I feel like I have to walk on eggshells because of this and I have to avoid things because he will get angry.
• he criticises my driving constantly, to the point where I cannot drive him anywhere because I am a nervous wreck. This is despite me driving for my job - over 1,000 miles a month and never having an accident yet.
• he criticises my taste in music/films to the extent that I have not bought a CD/DVD for over ten years - he wouldn't let me listen/watch it in the house (or he would, but would insist on being in a different room and making a song and dance about that).
• he hates me touching him affectionately and never touches me, unless we are in public and he is showing other men that I'm his wife
• when we have sex, we ALWAYS have sex at his instigation. If I attempt to instigate sex, he will get angry and say that he cannot perform at my request. And he never looks at me when we have sex - he always takes me from behind (sorry!). Sometimes I've cried during sex and he hasn't noticed.
• he always makes me dress up for sex, or he says he cannot get an erection. He recently had a go at me for wearing pyjamas in bed, and says I know nothing about men and how to turn on - if I did, I wouldn't wear pyjamas in bed (even though it's WINTER?).
• he gets annoyed that I dress up smartly for work but not at weekends/evenings, because I don't look attractive enough when he's around.
• he finds it really irritating if I try to cuddle him at all or if our body parts touch on the sofa
• he hates it if we are both in the bathroom or kitchen at the same time. He says I get in his way and he sighs heavily and leaves the room.
• in the past we have often talked about having an open relationship and I recently reminded him of this and said that it doesn't really make me feel LOVED. He denies we have had these conversations.
• A few years ago he assaulted my best friend when he was drunk. Even though I saw this, he told me I had hallucinated it and left me thinking I was going mad for about a week.
• Whenever I am ill, he refuses to speak to me. I once nearly miscarried and he was so angry that he couldn't look at me for days.

Yes so now I've written it down it makes him look like a total shit. He really isn't a total shit, and I feel really sorry for him now because he is utterly devastated and promising to change. He is great with the children and it only seems to be me that makes him react this way.

How bad does this relationship look? Am I just seeing everything through rubbish-tinted glasses because I am in love with someone else? I feel so weary of the whole thing and he really doesn't want me to leave. He is trying so hard and promising the world.

Hi Big,

Just wanted to add to the excellent advice you've already had. I think it's really important at this point for you to recognise and remember that your 'abusive twat radar' is calibrated all wrong - your husband has taught you that unacceptable behaviour is normal and that he is not an abusive twat when he clearly is.

So please be careful, it will take a while after you leave him to 'reset' your radar, as it were. Until then, be very careful - your ability to pick up on dodgy behaviour is seriously compromised.

So do keep this in mind in relation to the other man too. Your radar tells you he's a good guy (and he may well be) but can you really trust it?

Thanks all for your messages. We went to the therapist today and DH was a total mess, begging and crying. I'm worried he is going to have a total breakdown.

The thing is that since I made the decision to move out a few weeks ago, I've been really quite cool with him. I just feel more confident and not scared of him. He says this is breaking his heart and he can't bear it. I am worried he might end up getting admitted to some sort of mental health unit or losing it completely.

He was saying today that it wasn't fair that I've decided to end our marriage without consulting him. I admitted that I'd read an article online about controlling and unhealthy relationships which said if you scored over 3 out of 20 then you should seek professional help - we scored 11 ! He said that was shocking and we should go to counselling some more to work out how to change our behaviour so that we don't score that, and give things another go.

I do truly believe that he is totally devastated about this but I have really reached the end of what I am prepared to put up with and he is going to have to take responsibility for his own emotions. I do feel like a heartless bitch though. :(

It may well be hard for him to accept that you are finding your strength and courage and finally standing up to him. Good for you! You should be very proud and honestly, don't worry about him. He'll survive. More importantly, you'll gain back some self respect. Never blame yourself, ok? Why should you be blamed for making him tense, because you're scared of his rages?

You are not a heartless bitch. You are a woman who has spent too long being victimised by a total prick who cannot cope now that he's no longer in control of you. Don't stop now, whatever you do. The end is in sight and you will feel so, so much better living free from him.

funny how he can be nice to dc but not to you...

"he is going to have to take responsibility for his own emotions"
precisely.

hey remember how he told you that YOU are the cause of his anger etc?

well you will be saving him ,wont you ,by leaving him.

the tears, breakdown - even more evidence you need to get away.

and if he really having a breakdown then only supervised contact with the kids. his breakdown, his problem... report everything. be ready to call police if he actually kicks off - to have a record of his behaviour. or 999 if he having a mental breakdown.

he will have to buck up if he wants to maintain a good 50/50 with the DC.

he is totally devastated about losing a "thing" to control and have around at his beck and call - that is what he is upset about. it isnt about you as a person...

You are feeling heartless because YOU ARE A GOOD PERSON and he is pulling out all the stops to make you feel wretchedly guilty. If he was so concerned about losing you he would and should have acted like a kind, considerate, caring H in the first place. Now he's trying to guilt you into staying.

Good! You should not be with someone who scared you. Put yourself and your family first.

There is nothing wrong with your behaviour. The problem is his and his alone, he is trying to put the blame on you. Leave him on his own to deal with himself. Your concern for him shows what a nice person you are, but ultimately he is an adult and he is responsible for himself. Don't let your concern for him and his potentially 'losing it' sway your decision, or how 'unfair' he thinks your decision is.

I know it is a hard decision to make but you will always have plenty of support on here. Good luck.

bighouse you are not a heartless bitch. Is he upset because his marriage will end, or because he can't control you any more?

"I guess anyone's 'bad examples' of their DH, if they were all lined up, would look pretty shitty too?" - not that shitty, no :(

I am so glad to hear you speaking of feeling confident and not afraid of him anymore. Hold on to those feelings.

If he has a breakdown, OP, that's his problem, not yours.

You are by NO means a bitch: you have been far too kind-hearted with him for far too long.

You are perfectly entitled to leave a marriage that makes you unhappy. You do not need to "consult" him about this: it is your decision to make and yours alone. Only YOU can know what makes you happy or unhappy.

My abusive ex did exactly the same after I left him. His tears, his begging, his bargaining all had me feeling guilty but I remained strong and didn't go back, far too much damage had been done. When he realised he had lost and that I wasn't returning he soon turned to his usual vile self which only confirmed I had done the right thing.

Don't be swayed by anything he does or says, don't feel guilty, don't feel anything but joy at leaving. How he feels is not your responsibility, it is for him to deal with. At the moment he is panicking, he is scared and he will promise you anything to get you to change your mind. Don't fall for it OP, behind those tears and promising words lies the same man who made you feel abused, unloved and worthless. It's an act.

I agree, he keeps letting it slip and it reminds me why I'm doing this. He swore at his phone the other night and then saw me and coughed and made a joke about it - but for a second I saw a flash of the old rage that he was just trying to cover up. I know it's such a tiny tiny thing and I'm really sensitive but I hate it.

Likewise with the counsellor he keeps suddenly losing his temper and she keeps telling him to stop etc. It is reassuring that someone else is 'witnessing it' if you know what I mean.

He's abusive and is treating you appallingly. I can relate to this as some of the points in your marriage mirrored my own - the criticisms of your choice of films and driving, sex (but only with me on top - any other position 'troubled him'), angry at illness. You are lucky to have found someone else. Good luck.

BTW he left me for an OW and I'm nothing if not relieved! She has abusive issues too as I had a friendly meet up with her ex. They make a 'lovely' couple and the children don't want to meet her. Ex sees them at his mum's house.

I have never posted on one of these threads advising someone to leave, as there are usually enough other people saying the same thing so much more eloquently tan I can. However, in this case I would ask you:

Do you want to spend the rest of your life with him? Until you are both old? If not, then really it is just a question of when you split up - a timing issue.

My view of marriage is that you should b best friends with "benefits". Back to back, fighting the world. Surely the point is that you can trust them to get your back and be your support network, and you do the same for them? There will always be misunderstandings because people are not perfect communicators, but this sounds more profound than that.

Please, ask yourself what you think a marriage should be, then compare what you have to that. A lot of people think that it is necessary to be with someone and will put up with a lot, but honestly - being single but knowing you can rely on yourself is not as bad as being undermined all the time.

Hope this helps a little. But def agree that you should contact the relevant organisations that have been recommended. You can always get their advice and then decide.

"He said that was shocking and we should go to counselling some more to work out how to change our behaviour so that we don't score that,"

So he treats you absolutely appallingly for years and years and years and yet he continues to try to pin much of the blame on you. What a charmer.

Given his history of abuse, bullying, utter disregard for your feelings, blatant contempt for you as a human being and continued cynical manipulation of your feelings I'd put a lot of money on his tears and begging to be just him trying a different way to get you to do what he wants. He will almost certainly continue to veer between tears and anger, pleading and rage. It's him being outraged that the techniques he's honed over so many years to keep you in your place are no longer working and so he'll flail around trying everything he can to get you back in your box.

By the way, did you post about this dreadful excuse for a man a few weeks back?

You fell for someone else? I DON'T BLAME YOU. Bloody hell, being treated this way by your own H is certainly enough to drive you to that. THAT CAN HAPPEN WHEN A WOMAN ISN'T CHERISHED by her husband, let alone if he is actually being abusive like this.

Unfortunately, because you have fallen for someone else, you feel like the guilty one, hence, your guilt over this is tarnishing your understandable dismay at being for so long in a marriage like this. Don't let your GUILT stop you from doing what you need to do for yourself. I think you deserve a life. Not buying CDs for 10 years? Sorry, that may be the least of it, it's just that there are so many dreadful things here that he has done, that I don't think you should be the one feeling guilty. HE HAS DRIVEN YOU AWAY BY HIS ATTITUDE TOWARDS YOU. Why wouldn't you fall for someone else?

But if he can say SHE DID IT, SHE FELL FOR SOMEONE, THREATENED TO LEAVE ME AND GAVE ME A NERVOUS BREAKDOWN..... then at least he will be able to say/think it's all your fault.

SAVE YOURSELF. Sorry if he takes that badly, but this is unhealthy for all of you.

If your H won't be affectionate with you, does that mean he doesn't kiss/touch/cuddle you in front of the kids? And you say he is a good father?

Bit more thinking time before you agree to anything.....

Also, if your H does end up needing mental health care, then he needs it. THIS WILL NOT BE YOUR FAULT. It will just be a fact. It is not your job to keep him mentally healthy. If he's not, then he's not, and that's sad, but it isn't your responsibility.

If he needs mental health treatment you can bet he has needed it for quite a long time. Take a look at the obvious signs of depression and see how many relate to him.

You really should have left him before putting yourself in a position where you could fall in love with someone else.

You know, you don't need to continue counselling with him. I really don't see what that is going to achieve. You need legal advice, not him crying because he's losing the person he has controlled for a decade.

Just marking my place, op I do hope everything works out for you, he sounds like an utter shit, how the hell have you coped without physical contact all this time, if my dp didn't grope my bottom at least once an hour while were together I'd think there was something seriously wrong. Stay strong my lovely xxx

You are not responsible for his mental health. If he can't manage without you then it's a good thing you're leaving him as it's clear he has an unhealthy dependence on you. Let him have a breakdown, that's not your problem.

He sounds extremely abusive.

OMG... just read the original post. Get the hell away from him. How dare he treat you that way.

Get away from him ASAP. Vile. VILE. VILE.

He shows you no affection, demoralises, abuses you and has done by the sound of it for years.

Get the hell away from him. This cannot be your LIFE!!!

Hi all,
I've found a place really near to our house with room for the children. My mood is swinging wildly between elation and horror at what I'm doing. I never thought I would break up the family like this. But having had a taste of someone being 'nice' I know that I can't just go back to the way things were. I feel like I'm going to be so different by myself and almost don't know who I am (but it feels ok!).
Thanks for everyone's support - I've ordered the Lundy Bancroft book and hope that will really help me understand things a bit more. I keep looking at my OP and thinking that maybe I exaggerated stuff (DH would say I have) but I don't think so. Maybe it was partly my fault for not saying things more out loud but he didn't give me room to do so.
Anyway things are changing quickly and I think I will be ok.... Still got the hurdle of telling the children in the new year but we'll see how things go.
Thanks everyone.

You have described my ex to a tee and I totally understand the mixed emotions and guilt that you are feeling right now but you are doing the right thing leaving and deep down you know you are.

And you know what I am a few years down the line now and married to someone else now and my ex hasn't learned a thing he is still an arrogant, self absorbed bully.
I also realised that the tears and tantrums that he had when I was leaving him were not for our relationship, they were panic at his final loss of control of me, they were because he felt sorry for himself not sorry that we were splitting up if that makes sense.
He did it all threatened suicide, became violent and at first I panicked and reacted in the end I told him to go ahead I had my phone to call an ambulance. Harsh?? No I needed to stop reacting and pandering to him to keep myself strong and sane.

You falling in love with someone else was not the cause of your relationship breaking down it was a symptom of years of his abuse of you.

Well done, take each day at a time you've done great I'm so happy for you :)

Hello all,

I just wanted to say that I read this thread again and again. It really helps me. It's been nearly three months now since I told him I wanted to leave, and a month since I moved out.

I have not regretted it for ONE SECOND.

This thread showed me that fear has no place in a healthy relationship.

And this quote from bellazul I think about all the time:

"let me tell you, being treated nice is just the norm not the exception so that makes your DH a very cruel man indeed"

I wanted to say thanks to everyone who responded on this thread. I will remember you all FOREVER! You really helped me such a lot in such a dark time. Whenever I am waivering I read this all over again and it helps me feel strong.

Just thanks, really. XXX