Is my marriage normal or does it sound sort of abusive?

[thebighouse]

I'm feeling very confused about my marriage. Recently I have fallen in love with someone else (I know this is terrible and makes me a total shit but please bear with me) and it has made me realise the massive discrepancy between the way my DH treats me and the way this other person treats me. I've been reading some of the emotional abusive threads on here which has really made me think.

But I don't know whether I am being really horrible to DH to think this way? He says I am seeing our marriage badly now, because I want to leave (which is true). He is a fantastic dad to our children and does loads around the house. But with me, it's always somewhat different because I seem to trigger a rage in him so often.

Some examples of things that upset me:

• he gets so angry with me sometimes. We can't disagree about anything because it will trigger him into anger and sometimes he won't speak to me for days. He says that he just needs time to get over whatever I've said (nothing of any importance usually) and doesn't mean to blank me - but he does. I feel like I have to walk on eggshells because of this and I have to avoid things because he will get angry.
• he criticises my driving constantly, to the point where I cannot drive him anywhere because I am a nervous wreck. This is despite me driving for my job - over 1,000 miles a month and never having an accident yet.
• he criticises my taste in music/films to the extent that I have not bought a CD/DVD for over ten years - he wouldn't let me listen/watch it in the house (or he would, but would insist on being in a different room and making a song and dance about that).
• he hates me touching him affectionately and never touches me, unless we are in public and he is showing other men that I'm his wife
• when we have sex, we ALWAYS have sex at his instigation. If I attempt to instigate sex, he will get angry and say that he cannot perform at my request. And he never looks at me when we have sex - he always takes me from behind (sorry!). Sometimes I've cried during sex and he hasn't noticed.
• he always makes me dress up for sex, or he says he cannot get an erection. He recently had a go at me for wearing pyjamas in bed, and says I know nothing about men and how to turn on - if I did, I wouldn't wear pyjamas in bed (even though it's WINTER?).
• he gets annoyed that I dress up smartly for work but not at weekends/evenings, because I don't look attractive enough when he's around.
• he finds it really irritating if I try to cuddle him at all or if our body parts touch on the sofa
• he hates it if we are both in the bathroom or kitchen at the same time. He says I get in his way and he sighs heavily and leaves the room.
• in the past we have often talked about having an open relationship and I recently reminded him of this and said that it doesn't really make me feel LOVED. He denies we have had these conversations.
• A few years ago he assaulted my best friend when he was drunk. Even though I saw this, he told me I had hallucinated it and left me thinking I was going mad for about a week.
• Whenever I am ill, he refuses to speak to me. I once nearly miscarried and he was so angry that he couldn't look at me for days.

Yes so now I've written it down it makes him look like a total shit. He really isn't a total shit, and I feel really sorry for him now because he is utterly devastated and promising to change. He is great with the children and it only seems to be me that makes him react this way.

How bad does this relationship look? Am I just seeing everything through rubbish-tinted glasses because I am in love with someone else? I feel so weary of the whole thing and he really doesn't want me to leave. He is trying so hard and promising the world.

My list?

My husband forgets his dirty socks on the top of the stairs.
I find that really annoying. I have to bend down and pick them up. Or remind him (and he will then do it) or I will ignore it until he remembers, and then he will usually put a wash on with lots of stuff while he is at it.

And.. erm.

Last night he took his bicycle in and left it in the hallway. It was dripping oil on the floor (but he mopped that up).

I dont like when he leaves a mountain biking magazines outside the toilet on the floor. It looks messy.

YOUR list is not normal.

"I really feel it would be too cruel to him to put up a fight for the house or the children".

That is actually what he wants you to believe.

You hang yourself by your own petard if you truly believe the above:(.

Saying you think it would be too cruel to fight for the house and kids is like saying hey, I've got this wanker of an abusive man who I going to willingly give my precious babies to and he can do what the hell he likes to them.

I know it's hard but now is the time when you have to fight. Especially for the babies and you can do it! He doesn't deserve them!

You and the children can and will have a safe happy free life away from him

Actually op says he is a fantastic dad and does loads round the house etc, the problem is how he reacts to op.

No court in the land would prevent good contact. There are no welfare issues, so please don't tell op she can take the dc away etc etc. It's total rubbish snd creates false expectations

No ones telling her she can or should take the DC away. Just saying don't let him emotionally blackmail you into nit fighting for what is equally yours.

He is defo abusive! but you must know that really.

I'm so sad for you that you think if we all listed our dp's faults they would include things like: assaulted our friends in front of our eyes then said we'd imagined it, only had sex at their instigation, from behind and didn't notice or probably care if we were crying, no affection, excessive anger, the silent treatment, gaslighting etc

He IS nice at other times, of course, because no one would stay with someone if they were like that ALL the time. But he show's you just enough that you feel that if you try really hard you can deserve his love. He wants you to feel responsible for his behaviour - but you aren't - HE IS!

'The emotionally abusive relationship' by Beverley Engel is a good book to read.

Good luck, and never feel as tho you deserve this.

to answer your question op, it sounds wholly abusive and not normal.

he's brainwashed you now, and looks like he'll brainwash you into leaving your kids and moving into a flat.

bully.

Shit- I was so busy being flabbergasted that he assaulted your friend that I didn't notice that he didn't speak to you for days when you had a MC because he was so angry. For real? Angry with you for losing your baby?

I'm so glad you're leaving this man, but sorry you've had to put up with so many years of this. You sound lovely and deserve so much better.

You just wrote the text book abusive relationship right there.

Just leave. Fuck what he thinks. It doesn't even matter. You don't need to win the 'who's in the right' argument. Just go.

Leave. He has very serious issues.

Had you not fallen in love with someone else, would you have stayed? Not questioned the state of your marriage?

Of course his behaviour is abusive and of course he is a total shit. No decent man assaults a woman at all, let alone their wife's best friend. And worse than him being abusive, he has managed to make you think like an abused woman thinks - that you 'trigger something' in him, that he isn't really that bad, that you have devastated him by separating when he attacked your friend, that he would fall to pieces etc. You have not done these things, you are not responsible for any of this - he is.

Seriously, leave as fast as possible, but look after yourself. Just leaving won't free you from what he has planted on your mind. IMO you need to seek legal advice, about the house, about the children. And you would benefit from counselling or 'Freedom Training' for women leaving abusive relationships. Women's Aid may be able to point you in the direction of a course near you, or your HV may be able to help, or your GP. Your GP may be able to offer you a course of counselling.

My third piece of advice (after solicitor and counselling) is to give yourself space and time. If you waited for this other person to come along and rescue you before you could think of leaving your marriage, be very careful. The best person to look after you is not a new caring partner, but YOU. Once you have regained the confidence to look out for yourself and believe in yourself, then y ou will never be in an abusive situation again, and you will have the confidence that you are offering your new partner real love, not treating this other person (is it another man?) as your insurance poicy or safe haven or rescue package.

But your H sounds really horrible, and not safe to be with, to be honest.

Good luck.

I may be wrong but I think LaurieFairyCake is a psychotherapist - listen to her!

Thanks everyone for your thoughts and messages, which I'm finding really scary to be honest but also reassuring.

I keep wondering what DH would think if he read my OP. I think he would say I am exagerating most of it, and some of it he has apologised for, and some of it was over the course of the last 10 years or so and he has changed since then. And he would say he is very sorry and will change some more. DH had a totally shitty childhood and I know he has a lot of issues from that.

No if I hadn't met the other person (man) then I wouldn't have left or questioned the relationship. I just assumed that all relationships are compromises and it is reallly important to maintain a marriage for the sake of happy children - and I do believe that, a great deal, which is what is making this so hard. I had really wanted to maintain my marriage forever and grow old together etc. We have been to counselling together in the past for various communication issues (!) and for his anger issues. I felt that it was partly my fault as well, for making him tense by being scared of his anger.

I am not seeing the other person as my saviour in particular and I want some time on my own, as I know that is the right thing to do. I think I have just been shocked by how nice the other person is to me, holding my hand and making eye contact and wanting to hug me and look after me and basic things like that. He is just really kind and gentle and it's made me realise how much I miss in my marriage and how 'on edge' I feel in my marriage.

I appreciate everyone's kind words a lot.

Oh, I do feel for you.
Please read what you just read. You are scared of him, and you are scared that your fear is contributing to his anger, so you are literally blaming yourself.

You must leave. It sounds horrible.

What gets me about these stories is that I would never enable such a relationship, I would never allow a man to treat me like that. It would have been over years ago. And I'm no 'had a great time in my youth' person. I was hit a lot as a kid, and verbally abused, so maybe this makes me less likely to accept this shit from somebody, albeit I have read that those who have been abused in the past accept it more, but my point is, and I realise that there's been no physical abuse here, although I'd say that the doggy style only is mental abuse in a physical way, my point is,
why do so many women put up with this shit????
It would give me great pleasure to stand up to a bastard like this.

Please leave him.
Please find your self-respect again and never let another person treat you this way ever again.

Hi Bay
I guess that the good times were always there too, and the bad times mainly felt like my fault. I think we have had a lot of couples' therapy which makes me feel like it is both of us at fault (although the therapist usually takes 'my side'). And he promises to change and he is a lot better than he was in the past. And I guess one or two horrible weeks over the course of a few months doesn't seem so bad. You get used to it, after a while?
In the rest of my life work/friends etc. I am really well thought of and have lots of supportive friends. I am not a total loser honest although reading my posts here make me really question why I've put up with a lot of this. I guess it is because I have got scared of him over the years but he always persuades me that my fear is my problem, rather than a normal response to his anger/sulking.
It's all really sad when I type it out, although it's helping me to feel resolved.

Whether your H was abusive or not (and he certainly was) you have not been happy. Being scared of someone's anger has no place in a happy relationship and should have no place in any woman's life. There is no need to look at your OP from his pov - if it doesn't look happy, healthy or fulfilling from your pov that is enough! Of course working hard at a relationship is important for the children if it can be saved, but you have worked at it. But the truth is you could work and work, but your lack of effort isn't the problem. Your H's serious issues, attitude to woman, anger, recourse to violence and need to control you is the problem.

You sound lovely. Treasure your own self and leave this man.

Can I ask, when you did couples counselling, did you talk about things like crying during sex and him not noticing? Did you tell the counsellor about the lack of touching, the 'behind only', the aggression if you initiate sex? Did you discuss the only touching you in the presence of other men? Or were they too delicate or incendiary (or personal) to talk about? I ask because I wonder if the therapist knew how bad things really were.

Hi Big
Thanks for adding that, and sorry if I came across as a bit hard on you, but really, you do sound too nice for this to have been happening to for so long, and well, it's time to get out of this relationship, because he truly sounds awful, on so many things, so many things, blimey, I'd probably be inside for manslaughter by now if I'd had to live with person like that in my life, and it would give me great pleasure, great pleasure to turn the tables on this abuser, which is what he has been doing to you for years now, by telling him to get out of my life finally, because it will certainly be a jolt to his system, which he deserves after so many years of being a complete and utter bastard.

Move on, spend the rest of your life feeling free from this abuse and knowing that you won in the end.

Oh my gosh, he sounds like a nightmare. Seem to have read a bunch of posts like this on Mumsnet recently and am strongly getting the sense that too many women put up with too much crap for 'love'. A man would never stick around if it was the other way round.

OP you are weary. Do you want to be weary for the rest of your life?

No your marriage as described was not normal and yes, it was abusive. I agree with you too that shared residency would be the most sensible option, assuming you can manage that if your husband is the primary carer.

I'm trying to read between the lines about what you're not saying though.

This 'kind' OM. Is he married too by any chance?

Women who've been abused often trade one abuser for another. If this man has dumped on his wife to be with you, you might need to review that assessment of him.

Better for you and your children to be on your own for a while, I think.

None of this is your fault. Many people have issues but it does not excuse them treating someone else like crap. DP/DHs are supposed to love us! We should feel cherished and on an equal footing (partners!) Are you sure your kids are unaware? As someone who went there and got the t shirt when I was younger. Remember what they see will set the benchmark for their relationships in the future.

Look love, what he thinks is irrelevant, because he's a shit. And you are not a bad person for preferring another man, who is perhaps not such a shit. Being dumped is no more than your revolting H deserves. Get some legal advice; you should be able to get him removed from the house and be able to stay in it with DC without him. And don't feel guilty. Being dumped and thrown out are direct consequences of his horrible behaviour.

Love. my heart aches for you. It really does. Your H makes mine look like an amateur. And that is saying a LOT.

This OM is a red herring, he is the catalyst you needed to realise what a terrible situation you are in.

You need to get this abuser OUT of your life. YOU need to stay with the kids, the LAST thing you do is leave them WITH HIM FGS, they will grow up thinking HE is normal!

He is about as far from normal as you can get.

Get help/advice from Woman's Aid, Shelter, CAB, Respect, anywhere you can get it.