How can I help DH? Warning: long, contains family cr*p, sorry!

[MrsMcEnroe]

There is such a long back story to this that I'm not really sure where to start. I really need some advice on how to help my DH come to terms with his relationship with his family. So I'll dive in:

DH has one brother, a year older than him, who is married with 4 DC. DH and I have 2 DC. We live 250 miles away from DH's brother, parents etc who all live in the same town.

BIL and SIL haven't got on with FIL & MIL for many years, for various reasons, despite still unashamedly using MIL for free childcare all the time whilst criticising her behind her back and generally being really nasty about her. MIL isn't a bad person at all; she has done a few thoughtless things in her time but never anything harmful and she adores her grandchildren and always helps my SIL and BIL out financially whenever she can too (without telling FIL, see below). She has been married to FIL for over 40 years and is just waiting for him to die so that she can inherit all his money and start her own life without him!

FIL is a different kettle of fish; he has very serious MH issues which sadly have never been formally diagnosed by a doctor and, at the age of 65, he's certainly not going to go to one now. Having known him for 15 years I'd say that he suffers from severe depression, severe anxiety which manifests itself with OCD-type symptoms, and also he is very stuck in his ways, obsessed with hoarding away his money, quite controlling of MIL (who has enabled his shocking behaviour over the years, for the sake of having an "easy life"). When DH and BIL were kids he used to have a very explosive temper (he never physically harmed anybody but he would yell, scream, swear etc) and MIL, DH and BIL were terrified of him. The whole household was ruled by his black moods, and DH and BIL were sent away to boarding school when they were about 6 or 7.

BIL is cr*p brother in that he never returns DH's phone calls, forgets his birthday, never follows through on plans to meet up (bear in mind that we have to travel 250 miles to see them, with our DC who are seriously carsick and have to be drugged up to the eyeballs in order to get through a 5-hour car journey without vomiting copiously) etc etc and DH ADORES his brother and longs for more attention from him. We thought about moving to the same town as DH's family a few years ago, but BIL told DH that he didn't want us living near him. DH has had loads of counselling to help him deal with his family issues (he is what you would call a "boarding school survivor" in that he is still utterly traumatised by having been sent away so young, he longs for his dad to apologise for it - which will never happen - and longs for any crumb of proactive affection from his father and brother). However, DH cannot and will not accept that his family will not change. MIL won't get involved in the relationship between DH and BIL; she says that it's not her place but really it's because it would require courage and hard work, neither of which are her strong suit - she wants an easy life (and I'm not really sure that she should be interfering in the relationship between her adult children anyway, BIL is 40 & DH is 39, I don't know what I would do in her situation).

SIL loathes FIL and MIL, does nothing to encourange the relationship between BIL and his parents yet constantly uses MIL for free childcare and even leaves her DC alone with FIL, which I would never do as I consider him to be a danger to himself and others.

Finally, the communication between the entire family is awful.

DH walks in to the lounge all teary-eyed on Sunday. He's been speaking to MIL on the phone, who has told him that they are so chuffed that they've been invited round to BIL & SIL's house for lunch on Christmas Day - the first time in years. I'm really happy for MIL; she deserves to spend some time with her grandchildren and it will be lovely for her not to have to spend all day alone with my miserable wretch of a FIL who is, honestly, far more awful than I've made him out to be in this post. However, DH is gutted because we haven't been invited too; it was his birthday 2 days earlier and BIL still hasn't phoned or even sent a card. Frankly I wouldn't want to spend Christmas with any of them; we last tried that 4 years ago and it was utterly horrendous. FIL had some kind of temporary breakdown / tantrum (there's definitely an element of free will in his awful behaviour), wouldn't sit in the same room as us, and MIL told us after that disastrous visit that we couldn't ever stay in their house again as she couldn't cope with the stress from FIL.

So - DH feels sidelined, ignored, not valued, not part of the family etc etc. We have already spent thousands and thousands of pounds on counselling - CBT and talk therapy of various kinds, and hypnotherapy/NLP which he was very uncomfortable with - and DH is still no nearer to accepting that his family won't change. He still wants them to change for his sake, and he has been on anti-depressants for years (he was suicidal at one point, many years ago, and is on long-term medication which has helped him loads). He wants his family to want to spend time with him. He wants his brother to want to see him, which BIL doesn't want to do - he is a very selfish man, just like his father. DH is a lovely, caring, gentle, funny, gorgeous man with a devoted wife (me!) and beautiful DCs, but he still longs for validation from his parents & brother, which he will never get. How can I help him? I know that he has to help himself, but I suppose I'm wondering if there is any form of therapy that would help him come to this realisation quicker? From a selfish perspective, I've had 15 years of this sh*t and I'm not sure how much longer I can let DH's horrible family taint our own family life, which is lovely and works really well as long as we don't see them often and I can keep DH distracted enough not to think about them. This isn't a long term solution though!

If anyone has read to the end of this post they deserve a medal. I think I need a after all that ... I've never written this all down before. And I've left loads out!

How can I help DH? I've been trying for 15 years ...! I can't bear seeing the man I love in pain like this, and I want to knock his family's heads together.

Your DH needs to read Toxic Parents and see a counsellor to work through these issues. My DH and I have found the book very insightful as we deal with the legacy of his parents many issues. Your DH is never going to get what he wants from his family and when he accepts that, he'll be free.
They sound awful, BTW and I'd much rather spend Christmas at home than with that lot!

Your poor DH. And you.
You seem to have a lot of insight into the situation. Do you tell your DH how you see it, and all of them? And that they're not going to change?
What does he say?
Because of course there isn't any more that you can do. You've been heroic.
It's puzzling that after 39 years and lots of therapy your DH still hasn't come to the realisation that his family is not going to change, and that he still cares so much whether they do or not.
Did the therapy help him in any other respect?

Hi OP, yes I did get to the end. It does seem that everything has been done to try to help the situation, the only thing left would be for your DH to cut them out of his life.

They really will not change and he can't "make" them, all he can do is distance himself.

It may even be the wake up call they need (clutches at straws).

But fuzzy, sadly, that's exactly what he doesn't want!
OP, have you been on the Stately Homes threads? You will find lots of support there and maybe some practical suggestions from others afflicted with toxic families.

I read it all. Not sure I can really offer much advice though.

Your husband clearly needs some more therapy, because as you rightly say, his family will not change at any time in the near future.

Maybe living nearer to them would make some difference, but that could be worse or better, no guarantee of either.

Your FIL sounds very similar to mine in many ways, but thankfully not quite as bad. The controlling, selfish and depressed traits were manic-depression, and he did make my MILs life a miserable existence for many years, but she kept most of it hidden until after his death (suicide). To outsiders he was a lovely bloke, and to be fair he was a very good grandad too, but as a father he was quite cold and judgmental. There were reasons behind this, as my husbands brother was killed in his teens in a car crash, and this seriously affected my ILs, with my FIL never really recovering from it at all.

My husband had a lot of issues, I have posted about his depression and two breakdowns before, and the root of it was his brothers death (he blamed himself too) and his relationship with his Dad was always volatile and strained. It caused a lot of problems in our marriage as my husband would shy away from dealing with problems, arguments (not that there were many) drank too much, and just basically found it difficult to relax in a relationship.

It came to the point where we split up because I couldnt deal with the lack of emotion, and the indifference. He had his first breakdown, but I refused to consider reconciliation until he took steps to dealing with his demons. He did, he saw a counsellor, and it worked. We got back together, and he was a different person with a healthy and positive outlook on life, but his Dads death was a massive shock, and he had another breakdown, thankfully from which he has fully recovered now..

Your FIL could live for many years yet, but if he does die before his wife, then the family dynamic is likely to change massively.

Living so far away could be part of the reason your husband feels like an outsider too. Understandable, and maybe the BIL has his own issues and feels abandoned by his brother.

Is moving nearer to them a viable option?

My dh has awful parents (if you can call them that) he desperately wants validation from them, an explanation for how they did and do treat him. His dad was very ill a few years ago and he started to aknowledge a bit of it but once he got better it was like nothing was ever said.

Honestly there is nothing you can do. My dh is a depressive as a result of it all too. You just have to be there and hold him up through the bad times. It is a thankless task and it is heavy on you too but you can't change the past and you can't make others different people. You just have to be better and show him that his childhood is not representative of a good family life. Show him what family life is and how joyful it can be and show him that his parents and brother are the ones missing out.

It is bittersweet because that hole, that want, will never be completely filled. You haveto accept that hole as part of who your dh is.

Oh how I love Mumsnet, thank you all for replying so quickly!

NunTheWiser - I've just downloaded Toxic Parents onto my Kindle

LesserOfTwoWeevils - therapy did help DH for a bit, in that it gave him tools to help him cope with his own feelings - however, he is also very stubborn (just like his dad and brother!) and he does not WANT to accept that they will not change. That's the real problem as I see it.

fuzzynavel - you're absolutely right, and I long for DH to cut them all out of his life completely. However, as it is his family, he has to be the one to make that decision. If I suggest it, and he does it, will I be the wicked witch and be blamed for evermore if he regrets doing it? (He won't do it anyway; he loves him mum and can't see just how big a part of the problem she has been over the years. What kind of woman allows her 6-year-old to be sent to boarding school IN THE SAME BLOODY TOWN?? I'd have booted out FIL and kept the kids at home if I'd been in her shoes, but she stayed becase FIL is loaded and they have a massive house, extravagant lifestyle etc).

I am now wondering if I ought to suggest that DH just doesn't contact them any more, ever again, and see how he reacts. I feel quite sick now actually; I've got our nephews' and nieces' Christmas presents wrapped up in a pile in front of me, ready to take to the Post Office ...

Sorry I am not sure any of that made any sense at all.

It his horrific to hear how many children have been completely screwed over by the people who were supposed to care the most.

The day your DH accepts that his family, are "not nice" and are never going to be "nice" is the day he will start to recover.

For me to accept that just because someone is "family" does not mean you have to like or love them is liberating. Maintaining a relationship with indifference is very liberating.

Your geographical distance from them is to your advantage. They are not nice people they obviously do not want to maintain a loving and close relationship with them, so he should try to detach from them.

He has a loving wife and DC's, and probably some good friends try and get him to concentrate on the positive relationships in his life.

Try and make him see that they are not bothered about him, so he shouldn't be wasting his energies on them, enough is enough.

When people ask me about having kids I tell them how it completely changes your life and how it is hard work and how you have to be ready. It sounds like I am down on my decisions but I am not. Dd was the best decision we ever made and the joy she brings is indescribable but I was ready when we started trying.

I have seen too many people screwed up through having parents that should never have had kids. I am not going to tell someone who hasn't thought it through properly to just go for it.

What kind of woman allows her 6-year-old to be sent to boarding school IN THE SAME BLOODY TOWN?? I'd have booted out FIL and kept the kids at home if I'd been in her shoes, but she stayed becase FIL is loaded and they have a massive house, extravagant lifestyle etc

There is probably a lot more to it than that, from what you have posted. It sounds as though your MIL had very little choice in the matter. Her husband controls her. If anything I think I would feel sorry for her, as I am sure her life isnt all that great. As you say, she helps out your BIL and his family financially behind her husbands back. She loves her grandchildren too.

Life is a lot easier for women now that it was 40 years ago, but she probably thinks that as she has put up with the man for so long, she may as well get her freedom and his money to spend when he has died. I cant blame her for that. My MIL had to count every penny in her purse, was given a pittance for housekeeping, and expected to put a decent meal on the table every night, while my FIL went out spending thousands on his whims. She has confided in me that part of her felt relief at his death, because her life had been so bloody horrible for many years.

lilchicken It made perfect sense to me, and thank you for posting.

I can't suggest that DH cuts his family out of his life. Can I???

It doesn't help matters that I have no siblings and my parents are dead, so there's no extended family around to support DH (my parents were wonderful - of course! - they adored DH and always made him feel welcome, and he used to go to them for advice and was devastated when they died). So we have that comparison lurking in the background: my parents were "good" parents, DH's parents are "bad" parents - it's the elephant in the room really.

squeakytoy It's DH who feels abandoned by his brother, not the other way around - BIL has told DH that he doesn't want him to move nearer and that, if he does, he won't make any effort to see him more frequently! I can see why you think BIL might be missing DH but honestly, he's really not. They were sent to separate boarding schools at the age of 6 / 7 and haven't been close since.

BIL forgot DH's birthday again last week. DH is gutted. Part of me wants to slap DH and tell him to grow up and stop being so bloody soppy about it!! The DCs and I are his family now. But as I don't have siblings, how can I ever truly understand how DH feels about his brother?

squeakytoy x-posted, sorry! Re MIL, yes there is a lot more to it than I made out, and things certainly were different for women 40 years ago, you're right. I think the worst thing is that she says she can't wait for FIL to die IN FRONT OF DH AND OUR DC!!

Somehow I'm going to have to persuade him to read Toxic Parents and to go for some more counselling.

Oh Mrs I feel every bit of what you feel. I think asking for no contact would put you "in the bad books". My family are wonderful too and although dh is part of that family and takes some level of support from them I can feel his pain in knowing what his family and childhood should have been. I am bitter on his behalf.

After 10 years I am a little more forthright in that I no longer try to encourage contact with the parents and only minorly with siblings. After all it is his family and his choice.

It really sounds like everyone in your husbands family is a bit fucked up. Its very sad.

I would bet part of the BILs behaviour is a defence mechanism, probably something he learned as a child and something that is a very typical male way of dealing with emotions. to pretend you dont care rather than let anyone see it is hurting you.

For any posters who don't like in law bashing threads. Sometimes mn is the only way we can vent as the pressure of unquestioned support of our partners affects us too. Not all in laws are awful. But not all parents are wonderful. It makes sense that there are as many of us out there with awful in laws as there are with awful parents ourselves.

I feel for your DH but, if I'm being really honest, his inability to accept that his parents and sibling are awful and don't love him is a mental weakness on his part. He does need to grow up and face facts and I would be trying 'tough love' on him now because his inability to face this like a grown up is making your life miserable.

He has to accept that he is a husband and father now and that you and your children should be his priority and he should be shielding you from all this toxic crap and not bringing into your home. I would be embarrassed to keep running after a brother who had made it clear that he does not want a close relationship. In the end it's his brother's loss and not a reflection on your DH's character. However, he needs to rid himself of this neediness and accept that he has a lovely life with you and that is all he needs.

I don't need to sound harsh here but you could be dancing around these issues from now to doomsday if you are not careful. I come from a toxic background, the only way to deal with it is to see it for what it is, distance yourself from it and build another lovely life - which is perfectly possible. You don't have to endure the misery of blood relations because they are blood relations!

You're probably right squeaky

Sigh

Thanks for the support everyone

Cleopatra I think I love you!

(except I don't think that DH should be "shielding" me - we are equal partners and we promised "for better, for worse" when we married )

You are right, it is neediness on DH's part and it is a mental weakness. I think this why I get so frustrated sometimes - he has had SO MUCH HELP / THERAPY and he still feels this way, because he CHOOSES to. He needs to grow the f*ck up.

I'm not quite sure how to convince him that his mother is just as toxic as the rest of them though. God knows I've dropped enough hints!

How on earth do I tell DH that this behaviour has to stop????

What made him move so far away from his family?

Could that be part of the reason that his brother doesnt want to make any effort now, because perhaps he feels that he was abandoned by his sibling too? or that he was left behind to deal with his parents on his own?

Is moving back up there an option that you would be able to consider to build bridges with his brother. I would say that it may be possible if they see more of each other that they could realise that they are now adults, with their own kids (who are cousins and deserve to get a chance to know each other), and draw some sort of line under the past and rebuild, or even build from scratch a relationship together.

The other thing that frustrates/angers me is that I had a breakdown two years ago (very specific reasons/causes, all sorted out now). My main concern, during the entire bloody awful process, was that I didn't want my husband and children to be affected by my mental health, and so I forced myself to go to doctors and counsellors in order to get better as quickly as possible. The whole thing was over and done with in less than a year, and I am a much stornger person as a result. Why can't DH put us first, like I did, and deal with this so that our family life isn't blighted by his ridiculous relatives?

Why???

OK, I am going to show him this thread.

Before I met dh I had a breakdown, like you very specific reasons, and my family are the reason I took steps to get it sorted too. I had no care for myself but I did care for them.

I have struggled with the ongoing situation with dh. But I have come to realise that most of my problems were fairly short lived with only a couple of underlying issues. Dh problems have been there for his whole like and have been reinforced so many many times over the years that it is hard to separate his problems from his rational sworn. They re deeply ingrained and sorting them out completely may never be possible. But he can learn to make them a less significant part of his life and that should be the first aim.

Sworn? I mean self

Squeakytoy DH's brother has never made any effort; this hasn't just happened since DH moved away. DH and his brother both left their hometown to go to university (in different cities). After they finished, BIL moved straight back to hometown with SIL (who was then his girlfriend) because they knew they wanted to start a family soon and they planned to use MIL for as much childcare as they could!! Also, FIL got BIL a job (BIL is bloody useless). So BIL definitely moved back to his hometown out of choice, and DH was still at university then (BIL is older). He certainly has not been abandoned by DH, nor has he been left to cope with the parents on his own, because he only ever sees his parents when he wants money/childcare from them. MIL has frequently rung me in tears - me, not DH - because BIL has been ignoring her or hasn't let her see the kids or whatever.

DH travelled for a year after university, then moved home for a few months while waiting for his graduate job in London to start. (While he was living at home BIL never saw him, and actually turned him away from his door one evening when DH turned up in tears after a row with FIL. DH was sobbing and shaking and BIL said, "you can't stay here" and closed the door in his face). After DH met me we lived in London for a few years, then we moved out of London, to the South coast, where we can indulge our love of the beach, surfing, etc. It was DH's idea to move here; when he suggested it I hadn't even considered it).

As I said earlier, we investigated the possibility of moving to DH's hometown a few years ago. DH had a job interview, and discussed moving back with BIL, who then told him that he didn't want us living hear him. He said that he didn't want to have to change his routines in order to accommodate having us in his life. So we didn't.

There is no way that I am moving my family 250 miles away from our home, our support network, their school, DH's job and my job, in order to live near people who don't give a f*ck about us. I was prepared to give it a go in the past, but DH said he didn't want to. Why on earth should we put ourselves through such a massive upheaval now?

Honestly, BIL is not feeling neglected by DH, IT IS THE OTHER WAY ROUND!!!! And if I am wrong, and if BIL is feeling neglected by DH -well, he's a bloody good liar. DH has phoned him, and written to him, and tried to discuss it soooo many times, and every time he is rebuffed and told by BIL to grow up and stop being so needy. BIL never returns DH's calls or texts. He has had plenty of opportunity to show that he cares, but he doesn't.

lilchicken I think we must have been separated at bith

yes, my problems were caused by specifics (bereavement) and were quite short-lived, but I still feel resentful that I dealt with my problems, and put myself through hell dealing with them, in order to get better, and DH won't do this. We have been together for 15 years and have been living with his problems all that time... even when he has had counselling he has only been going through the motions, he hasn't really been trying to help himself find a way to deal with things. I really do think that I need to try tough love!