"You're no fun anymore" and other comments...

[WhiteLight]

DH is a good man, he's kind, works hard, I'm the envy of my friends. I have however suffered PND, depression and anxiety. I've contemplated terrible things. I feel like I'm walking on eggshells, waiting for the next comment about how untidy the house is, the state of the car, etc. He says I can't take a joke and I'm no fun, that I should have a laugh more. I'm no fun because I don't like being tickled etc. We have no social life and not much of a sex life either right now.

I worry about money as I'm a SAHM, but we don't really share or discuss our finances.

This should probably be AIBU, but part of me feels he's right and I should make more of an effort and the other part of me feels like someone has to be the grown up round here. Which is it?

That was my first thought too, AF.
You don't need this shit in your life, OP.

I can guarantee that your low self esteem is as a result of living with this man. Constantly walking on eggshells has this effect on a person. I think the first step to raising your self esteem should be to tell your counsellor exactly what is happening at home and allow yourself to be supported. You will gain strength from knowing that how you are being forced to live is not normal.

Abusive arse hole!

The thing is, I've been on MN for years and read hundreds of stories like this without recognising that I'm in the same boat.

Your messages of support are helping me to realise that what I'm putting up with isn't OK.

My xh was exactly the same as yours. It is abuse. I didn't realise how bad it was until I was out. I hope you can talk this through with your counsellor.

WhiteLight, I can assure you that what you are putting up with most definitely is not ok. I was in an abusive relationship for many years but it took me a long time to realise it. I think that is because we minimise the situation in order to cope with it, it also becomes a normality to live this way. But, the signs are there and they are telling you that it isn't normal, that feeling of dread you have when he is due home, the low self esteem, the doubting of yourself, they are all signs you should be taking notice of and acting upon. It's great that you are having counselling but until you are actually open with your counsellor as to what is happening then he/she is not going to be able to give you the help and support you really need.

It amazes me how very much alike these men are. Not to mention how many of them there are.

Yes, there is a script

The trouble is, when you are in the middle of being on the receiving end of it, it is hard to see

They see it though...it's how they manage to stay one step ahead, keep you on the back foot, make sure you blame yourself

But even down to the comments over the lights! My ex used to do this too, and over the heating, we weren't 'allowed' to have it on unless he gave permission and boy would I suffer if I ever dared to put it on and he find out. Reading this thread brings back all the feelings of dread and fear I used to have when I lived with him, I can well imagine how WhiteLight feels.

And it's almost impossible to find ways to change things for the better with a man like this, ime. I doubt he wants to change. By belittling you, he keeps control over you, and somehow proves to himself how 'big' he is.

My exH did most of the things yours does, did lots of 'little' things and made lots of 'little' comments that put me down, kept me down. None of his actions were obviously terrible - he never hit me physically, for instance - although he loved to berate me when we went out, in front of our friends especially. Just lots of things that hurt me, and if I complained, he said that I deserved this because of the person I was. And because part of me truly believed him, I put up with this.

One day I said enough is enough.

I was a sahm at the time, 3 under 6 (I childminded a little girl full time for 4 yrs). I told him firmly that he had to learn what my day was like, and have the kids for one day. To my surprise he agreed. When I came home, house was a tip, no laundry or cooking done, he'd played all day and done no jobs; he finally realised how busy and hard working I was.

The strange thing was that at that moment he stopped moaning so much about some things - like the house being strewn with toys - but found a whole new raft of other things to complain about. If anything, he became more, not less, unkind and spiteful.

And as I gradually became a (very little) more assertive as the kids got older, he became more controlling and nasty.

Like you, whitelight it took me years to realise how abusive this relationship was, and my revelation only happened a couple or three years after we separated - that's how strong his hold was on me

No wonder you feel anxious about him coming home.

In order to change their mind, a person has to see that their previous behaviour or opinion was flawed or incorrect.

These men don't see anything wrong with their behaviour. As it says in the OP "I'm the envy of all my friends" - as far as these guys know, this is how relationships are run. It's what they saw of their parents, grandparents, Aunts and Uncles... They don't realise all the private quiet moments of appreciation that exist behind the scenes.

If DP said something stupid like "Come hither, wench, and bring me a cuppa" in front of his mates, I'd mostly likely go along with the joke because, in private, everything's equal so that kind of stuff isn't a big deal. All another person watching would see is that my P gets to order me around like a servant...

It's hard to understand what's going on sometimes when you're stuck in the middle of it. I always thought verbal abuse meant calling someone names, but what your husband is doing IS verbal abuse.

This article is quite interesting

I would suggest you read more about emotional abuse and when you really understand that it's him and not you and you can't do anything to change him, you'll be in the right place to make a decision.

And I can guarantee you'll feel a whole lot better if you aren't living with this shit every day.

I wonder how often anxiety and/or depression is actually caused by living with these men?

DH used to do similar things (tickling and other "jokes", which are only funny to the perpetrator). He can't take it when the joke's on him though - he's not ticklish, but I found a few things he hates and after a while he got the point. He's much more grown up now .

As for whether you're "fun" at the moment that's another issue - maybe you're not, but then life isn't always a barrel of laughs its it, certainly not with PND and depression? And does he know you worry about money?

OP come over and have a look at This Thread and read some of the links. It is really hard to lift the denial lens and see clearly what is happening. But you can trust your guts.

I recognise your dread - it seems totally irrational to be anxious and unsettled when it is DH coming in the door, but it is a key indicator of the cause of your unhappiness. Read as much as you can and just observe, no need to do anything about it yet. The time will come!

This guy is a b*stard.
My god, what a horrible man.
A bully, simple as that.
A nasty bully.
How dare he.
I don't think he'd be so cocky if all these wonderful MN'ers were there to give him a piece of their mind.
I hate people like your husband.
Emotional abuser.
Please start standing up to him.

I hardly slept last night for thinking about all this, and have been up since before 6 this morning.

I read malinkey's article, it makes perfect sense. He would never criticise me in front of others, and never call me names, but what I do get is teasing, witholding, discounting my feelings, judging and criticising, trivialising and undermining.

I think the reason why I hold things back from him is that I know he'll criticise and judge me for it.

I need to start standing up for myself and pushing back on his behaviour. I also need to give the behaviour a name when it takes place, and using that favourite MN phrase "did you mean to be really offensive/critical/judgemental when you said that?"

LittleWarmHouse I hid that thread a couple of weeks ago because I have never considered myself to be in an abusive relationship. I always thought the problem was with me, not a good enough wife, housekeeper, bad with money, over sensitive, spend too much time on the laptop, yada yada...

I'll have a good read of it.

Brace yourself, WL

You will see your situation on that thread, many times over

Link this thread there

OP - think about it - it's not normal/acceptable to have to be 'on your guard' most of the time with the person you live with, is it?

You shouldn't have to build yourself a coat of armour to be able to deal with your own husband?

And walking in at the end of the day and, instead of interacting with you - like a human being - choosing, instead, to make comments about your housekeeping duties.

I think the script is to have someone as the 'whipping boy'.

OP, I could have written all your posts. ... BUT, and it has taken me 2 years on MN to realise that, the jokey thing is, like others say, not a joke if both people don't find it funny - if it is a way to put down/ criticise/ humiliate you without any comeback then that is bullying. I have to say things have deteriorated between my DH and me since I have started to step in sharply to stop him treating the DC the same way. He accuses me of being a killjoy but my younger child has even confided in me that she feels bullied by him (it's all joking......I am not even clear whether DH genuinely realises how oppressive it is). Don't let your relationship slip so far. It sounds like you might catch it early by making him appreciate that you are a "team" and not him earning and you spending. How much would he need to pay to get the cleaning, childcare, cooking, general stuff done that you do? He needs to have his pay put into a joint account and together you should have agreed spending. You also both need to have fairly equal leisure time. He needs to respect what you do. Good luck.

BB do you think that your marriage will survive your husband starting on your children ?

I could not tolerate that.

I can see why women might accept it for themselves...but to see bullying applied to their children ? A deal breaker...surely ?

AnyFucker, I know that is your consistent point of view and perhaps you are right. I am guessing that you are still quite young and that your childhood had a massive effect on you (just an observation from your comments on lots of threads over a long time, sorry if I am wrong). Actually, you don't know if you wouldn't have had a worse time if your DM had left your dad and then you had a stepdad, or weekends with your father.......it is the thought of DH getting access that has always stopped me from leaving. He would not look after my DC. When I am there, I can do it all so in a way I cover for him, and I can also intervene if he squashes them mentally. Even now they are teens, I would not trust him to care eg last night my 14 year old had to be somewhere in the evening. I had a prior commitment (very unusual) and asked DH to pick her up (he was doing nothing). He refused and said she was old enough to come home on her own (at night, in a dodgy part of the city, 2 buses, probably 45 mins) when it is a 10 minute drive. I did it myself and let my friends down.

BUT I do take your point. You, and others on MN, have made me think hard. You have given me the determination to at least risk DH being cross with me (he is), but still standing up for the DC, and feeling confident that a "joke" is not a joke when it is a disguise for humiliation and domination. Needless to say, our marriage is indeed now disintegrating.

I am 46, BB

Now your children are older, they will not be impelled to go stay with him were you to separate. Just another thought to add to what must be a veritable novel.

And you are right, I could never condone keeping any child in an abusive environment

Was it one of your threads where I said that my mother had thought I was strong enough to withstand a father that made repeated attacks on my self esteem ? Because I answered back and appeared to develop a thick skin ?

I wasn't

And I didn't

And 30 years later, it still affects me