DP very jealous, how can I help him?

[loserface]

Background: we got together under terrible circumstances. I was 18 and discovering how my womanly ways could be used, he was 26 and had split from his last girlfriend as she had cheated on him. I already had a boyfriend of 3 years but we were going through a very rocky patch, neither of us really loved each other anymore and were together more out of habit than anything, I know for a fact he was cheating on me with a few other girls. Anyway, I turned into a bit of a tart, flirting with anything with a pulse and basically become a full blown cock tease. DP saw past this side of me and kept on pursuing me until I gave in and started seeing him behind my boyfriends back. This went on for a year. DP never saw anyone else while he was dating me but I continued to give everyone else the come on and telling lies to everyone.
In the end I decided I needed a fresh start and moved to a new city to be with my boyfriend who had also moved. The relationship lasted 2 months after that and we split, I went running to DP to cry on his shoulder and got bless him, he let me. Even after all the shit I'd already put him through.

DP and I decided he should move in with me, he left all his friends and family to come and live with me. Even then though I still kept on flirting madly with everyone and going on secret nights out with boys who I knew just wanted to get in to my knickers. DP finally had enough at that point and threatened to leave unless i perked my ideas up.
Ever since that night I vowed to change my ways and not treat him like shit anymore, give him a bit of respect.

3 years on and we have DS (17months) and are engaged. I'm a totally different person to who I was back then. I would never do anything to hurt him and have proved time and time again that I wont go behind his back or lie anymore. Everyone who knows us says they can tell how committed and devoted to him I am.
The problem is DP still isn't over the jealousy thing, he still thinks I'm about to run off with someone else or have "back up boyfriends". He recently got upset because we bumped into a dad who goes to one of the playgroups I go to. He gets upset when I say I think another man is attractive even though he has said plenty of times but other women on the telly who he thinks are nice. He doesn't like it when I have to ring a call centre and a man answers and we have a bit of harmless sales person flirting. I don't know what else I can do though, I've changed so much but it's still not enough. I refuse to stop talking to men, I shouldn't have to. Surely it's ok to occasionly think another man is attractive as long as you dont make a big deal of it? I'm scared of talking to men at playgroups in case it gets back to DP somehow and he thinks I've been up to something.

I want to help him get past this once and for all, how can I do this? I can't prove anymore that I'm not going to back to what I was like.
I can't change the past but I've gone out my way to change the future but I dont feel like he is making it very easy and I cant imagine married life like this. Please help.

Sorry its so long by the way, felt good getting it out!

Well, first of all, stop talking about yourself in such negative ways! You actually sound how a bitter bloke would sound rather than a woman talking about herself - a tart, a cock tease, ...

You were young, no ties. What you describe isn't actually that bloody bad!

You flirted. Well, so what? You had sex? Big deal. You were not monogomous - well, that's the only thing that's not on. If you are going behind someone's back, that's wrong. But you were young. We all make mistakes! and it sounds like you and your then boyfriend were both at it.

And you've never cheated on your partner. I mean, from what you post, you've never cheated on him. Unless when you say that you gave people the come on, you mean that you slept with them while with him. If you did, then I can understand why he feels a lack of trust and that's a more serious thing to have to work on, but if it's just that you are a bit flirty and he is holding against you the relationship you had with this other man where you both slept with other people - he's being unfair.

All you can do is to tell him that you are committed to him and he has to learn to trust you because you are doing nothing to break his trust. If he can't do that, then tbh, the relationship is doomed.

Unless he can put the past in the past and see you for who you are now, I'd strongly advise you don't get married.

I'm sorry OP, you can't help a man who is irrationally jealous. Nothing you say or do will ultimately make any difference, he will just move the goal posts. One day it is the Dad at the playgroup, a while later you'll find you generally don't talk to any men for fear of setting him off. Where will it end?

The only thing you can do is clearly state that you will not be told who you can speak to, that you are committed to him and if he cannot accept that then there is not a future for you.

He's laid a good guilt trip on you, hasn't he? As Hecate says, why shouldn't you have played the field - you were young, you had no responsibilities.

Gets upset if a man answers when you ring a call centre or if you bump into a man who goes to your playgroup or if you say any other man is attractive?

You're beginning to get scared of talking to men in case it gets back to him?

This doesn't bode well for the future. You need to get this sorted before you think of marrying him because it sounds very much as if he's beginning to control you and this is how abusive relationships often begin.

The alarm bell's clanging and those red flags are waving at you - ignore them at your peril.

I'm not quite clear whether the OP has cheated on him or not? OP? If you've broken the trust it's inevitable he'll be insecure, if you've lead him to believe you've broken the trust he'll also be insecure. If you haven't on either of those counts then you need to sit down and firmly establish the crux of his problem.

I'm sure there's lots the OP can do if she really wants him. Learning to understand what makes that person believe what they do and behave how they do is the key. There's always rationality in irrationality. People don't do things without reason. To him their will possibly be many reasons.

Some people need more understanding and reassurance than others. What you need to decide is can you give him that. Is your love for him that strong ?

well, the OP was living with her DP when she went on 'secret nights out'!! i don't think that is 'fine' and 'nothing to be negative about'...

and.. you say to your DP when you find somebody in the street attractive? i know some couples do this a lot but my DH and i do not. we may say who we fancy on tv or in films but not just random people we know or meet in the pub... i think with your history you probably shouldn't either.

also, i would avoid the flirting with sales people in his earshot too.. it's not necessary. it doesn't mean not talking to men, it means not flirting with them. your DP is not stupid. there is a difference. i know you've changed in your intentions and feelings but i think you need to change a bit more in your outward actions to make this really clear to your DP.

I didn't cheat on him but I did keep him on the side for over a year while I dithered over whether I wanted to be with either my boyfriend,DP or someone completely different. I really did mess him around but never actually slept with anyone other than the 2 I was in a relationship with, I don't think he believes me though. I can totally see why he would have jealousy issues given how we started off.

I think I can give him the love and commitment he needs, he just needs to see that iyswim?

It seems the fact that the OP's dp made a play for her while she was with another man and was complicit in her cheating on her ex appears to have been overlooked.

The OP and her dp may not have behaved with honour, but maybe the fact that he can 't trust her is because he can't trust himself.

ok. So you have never cheated on him.

you were with another man, but it was a crap relationship and you were both seeing other people and your now dp pursued you for a year while you were with someone else - and he holds this against you?

You were young and flirty and you were - shock horror - not wearing a chastity belt and actually sexual. And he can't trust you because of that, even though you have never cheated on him.

You 'messed him around' aka didn't commit to him until you were ready to commit, until you knew that this was the man you wanted and you wanted to settle down - at which point, you committed. And because you took your time and didn't fall into his arms at once, he doesn't trust you?

I actually can't see what you have done that means that you cannot be trusted to speak to a male over the telephone and I think that he's probably more insecure because his ex cheated on him, rather than because you were playing the field when younger (but have never been unfaithful to him!) and, tbvh, I suspect that even if he had got you brand new out of a box, never been played with before he'd still not trust you.

I'm uncomfortable about that maybenow - op censoring herself (changing her personality? 'Treading on eggshells?')

But - I was thinking this is hard for us to comment on, until we hear a bit more about what he's specifically objected to. Having said that, I doubt you're doing anything out of order, OP.

I remember a fellow student - flighty, ditzy, provocative clothes, etc. She was promiscuous but had low self-esteem. She told me once that she felt ugly every day before she did the BIG hair and THICK make-up thing

Then she got together with what appeared to be a lovely bloke. She toned down everything (with his encouragement) and proved she was a natural beauty, she grew in confidence, it was lovely.

And then he started getting paranoid and nasty. Why did she behave that way? Once a tart, always a tart, right?

Things didn't work out for them, I hope if you love your man, Op, things'll work out for you.

But don't get drawn into long, painful arguments about whether you've been flirty, unfaithful, whatever. Tell him this is not on, it's the past (was he a monk?) and withdraw.

Oh, and my friend gave it a time-limit. 6 months (generous).

You don't have to stop talking to men, but you really truly don't have to flirt with any either. What's the point? And no need to tell him who you're finding attractive either. Not helping! That would be a good place to start building the trust.

That was very generous of your friend, tall.

Any sign of jealousy or meanness of any kind and they're out the door. I won't compromise on what I regard as essential qualities that a man has to have if he wants to be with me.

Izzy she was young - as was OP when she first met this bloke.

I'm sure I've brought up the subject of a mumsnet guide aimed primarily at teenaged girls before...

You, AF and many others could offer a wealth of take no shit advice to our daughters - the future women of this nation.

Tell me about it, tall. I'm missionary about the need for all women to take no shit but so many teenagers and young women come from a place of extreme emotional neediness where they see jealousy and even physical violence as a sign that 'he cares about me'.

And that porn-type behaviour is the norm

He told you to pull your socks up, so you did.

Tell him it's his turn now.

Aye.

DP is very jealous, how do I help him?

In short, you cant.

Given that you have done nothing to break his trust (cheating on him etc) and given that he knew you and your past when you got together and was ok with it, this problem is his and not created by you.

I doubt that whatever eggshells you walk on, whatever you do or say to try and stop his jealous reactions, whatever you do it wont change his jealousy. Its down to him and his own insecurities.

All you can do is decide if you can live like that, and if you cant, what you will do about it. As Jux said, you stepped up when asked so now its his turn and if he wont....well then you have a decision to make.

He gets upset when I say I think another man is attractive even though he has said plenty of times but other women on the telly who he thinks are nice. He doesn't like it when I have to ring a call centre and a man answers and we have a bit of harmless sales person flirting. I don't know what else I can do though, I've changed so much but it's still not enough. I refuse to stop talking to men, I shouldn't have to.

That ^ is where it is all going wrong. You can speak to someone on the phone without flirting, you do not need to do "harmless" flirting, especially if you know that your partner feels insecure. You do not need to tell him that you find other men attractive either.

You want him to trust you, and by the sounds of it, he wants to trust you too, but is still struggling to get over the past. You shouldnt need to avoid talking to other men, but I think you do need to use a little bit of tact and thought here.

OP you talk about flirting as though it is a big part of your life, the way you are. You have said you treated your BF like shit. You said you decided to give him a little respect.

My question is why do you want to be with someone you were prepared to disrespect before?

I'm probably extremely boring but I don't do flirting. You don't do it when you are a mother and a partner. It doesn't look good - doesn't go with the uniform.

The behaviour you have shown in the past is probably indicative of a problem that you haven't yet dealt with. I think you have created your own prison through him. You have messed around with DP's head a little in the past and if you want to keep him in your life you need to stop pushing his buttons or simply let him go. I think you are co-dependent and need specialist counselling to deal with this.

You can't help people like this. Whatever you say, whatever you do will never be enough. They will drag you down and down and suck the very life from you until you don't recognise yourself anymore.

You are young. Move on.

Thanks for the advice.
squeaky toy, I do behave with tact, the last thing I want is to make arguments for myself. But I really don't see the harm in occasionally having a bit of banter with another man. I'd never lead anyone on again though.

So basically, its his problem he's jealous and he needs to get over it? I really don't want to leave him and move on as its a great relationship apart from this problem.

Without being present to witness your 'banter', it's impossible to say if that element of your problem with him is him being unreasonable or not.

It is extremely disrespectful to your partner to behave in a sexual way towards another person, particularly right there in front of them! so if your flirting is such that it really seems like there's a possibility of sex - even if as far as you are concerned it's all talk - you are 100% in the wrong.

There's friendly flirty and there's sexual flirty. If you are seriously flirting in a sexual manner then you are treating him with no respect or consideration whatsoever.

If you are just being friendly and he's banning you from talking to men, then he's got a serious problem!

Like I said last night, how you behaved before you were together he should NOT be holding against you. You did nothing wrong and he knew exactly who you were when he chased you for a year. Using that as a stick to beat you with in an attempt to control you is wrong.

But now you talk of a 'bit of banter' and my spidey sense is going off and telling me something ain't right here. I suspect your 'bit of banter' is highly charged sexual flirtation designed to give you an ego boost. And that is not treating him with this respect you claim you now treat him with.

Does anyone else think it's odd for a 26 year old man to pursue an 18 year old girl even though he knows she has a boyfriend? Which is essentially how this relationship started. My cousin went out with a guy at the same age with the same age gap and I was worried for her, so were her parents.