DP very jealous, how can I help him?

[loserface]

Background: we got together under terrible circumstances. I was 18 and discovering how my womanly ways could be used, he was 26 and had split from his last girlfriend as she had cheated on him. I already had a boyfriend of 3 years but we were going through a very rocky patch, neither of us really loved each other anymore and were together more out of habit than anything, I know for a fact he was cheating on me with a few other girls. Anyway, I turned into a bit of a tart, flirting with anything with a pulse and basically become a full blown cock tease. DP saw past this side of me and kept on pursuing me until I gave in and started seeing him behind my boyfriends back. This went on for a year. DP never saw anyone else while he was dating me but I continued to give everyone else the come on and telling lies to everyone.
In the end I decided I needed a fresh start and moved to a new city to be with my boyfriend who had also moved. The relationship lasted 2 months after that and we split, I went running to DP to cry on his shoulder and got bless him, he let me. Even after all the shit I'd already put him through.

DP and I decided he should move in with me, he left all his friends and family to come and live with me. Even then though I still kept on flirting madly with everyone and going on secret nights out with boys who I knew just wanted to get in to my knickers. DP finally had enough at that point and threatened to leave unless i perked my ideas up.
Ever since that night I vowed to change my ways and not treat him like shit anymore, give him a bit of respect.

3 years on and we have DS (17months) and are engaged. I'm a totally different person to who I was back then. I would never do anything to hurt him and have proved time and time again that I wont go behind his back or lie anymore. Everyone who knows us says they can tell how committed and devoted to him I am.
The problem is DP still isn't over the jealousy thing, he still thinks I'm about to run off with someone else or have "back up boyfriends". He recently got upset because we bumped into a dad who goes to one of the playgroups I go to. He gets upset when I say I think another man is attractive even though he has said plenty of times but other women on the telly who he thinks are nice. He doesn't like it when I have to ring a call centre and a man answers and we have a bit of harmless sales person flirting. I don't know what else I can do though, I've changed so much but it's still not enough. I refuse to stop talking to men, I shouldn't have to. Surely it's ok to occasionly think another man is attractive as long as you dont make a big deal of it? I'm scared of talking to men at playgroups in case it gets back to DP somehow and he thinks I've been up to something.

I want to help him get past this once and for all, how can I do this? I can't prove anymore that I'm not going to back to what I was like.
I can't change the past but I've gone out my way to change the future but I dont feel like he is making it very easy and I cant imagine married life like this. Please help.

Sorry its so long by the way, felt good getting it out!

It is honestly just friendly banter and it hardly ever happens, he just makes a big deal of it when it does. I know how I would feel if he was flirting massively in front of me so out of respect for him I dont do it. I always tell him how much he means to me and how I would never do anything to hurt him. Not just because I respect him as a person but also because of DS. I believe it's important to show your children what a relationship should be like, show them how to respect your partner.
And I only said about finding men attractive because DP often comments on how another woman might be pretty/beautiful/sexy. I used to hate it as I had control issues myself but now I'm at a point where I can look at the women he is reffering to and think "yeah she is hot, I can see what you mean" sorta thing, and I dont understand why he can't do the same. It's not as if I sit around pointing out all the sexy men I see, it's just every now and again it might come up in conversation.

I've never understood the logic , if he feels you a bit of a strumpet why on earth would he get with you? seriously ask him that next time it makes no sense?

but he is being very abusive and I dont use that word lightly, give him an ultimatum stop the crzy jealousy or your gone, its not on, do you want to have wasted your life terying to appease someone who is just insanely jealous.

You can't make him trust you if he doesn't. You can reassure him over and over and over but it is not within your control to make him trust you.

All you can do is decide if you are going to stop talking to anyone with a penis in the hope that that is good enough for him or if you are going to say to him that you have never betrayed him and if he can't trust you then you question the future of the relationship, or something in between.

OP - firstly, please, please stop talking about yourself in that awful mysoginistic way - 'cock teaser' 'flirt' - you were young and single and could do what you liked, I find it so upsetting to hear you denigrate yourself in that way, even light heartedly - it's so damaging to be critical of yourself and your behaviour like that, and I think you are internalising your boyfriends views of yourself.

Please get some confidence and try to rid yourself of any shame over your own behaviour - and stop letting him make you feel like you have to constantly prove you are worthy of his trust.

I am going to give you the perspective of someone who has really, really suffered from jealousy - me. I had therapy and I sorted out my own issues - nobody could have helped me by changing thier behaviour, no matter how much I tried to control them. I realised it came from my own family dynamics/ what I saw growing up in relationships - my OWN insecurities - not the behaviour of others. Yes of course, I needed to be with a trustworthy person - but you can't make someone be trustworthy, you have to choose a good persono and then back off and trust them.

Telling you off for flirting on the phone with someone in a call centre? dear god woman - stop trying to pander to this controlling crap AT ONCE. I cannot believe women are coming on here telling you to stop flirting with people in call centres.

If you are by nature talkative and friendly - stay that way! If you are chatting with someone in a call centre - how on gods earth is that a threat to your relationship?

You cannot change him - except in one way - stopping all toleration of his jealousy.

He chose to be in a relationship with you knowing who you are. The past is just that, the past.

I tell you from my own perspective, I have only got rid of my jealousy with serious hard work looking at my OWN issues - not trying to control others. I had to make the decision to TRUST my partner, not try to watch him/ stop him doing things I don't like.

Yes, you have to show and demonstrate you are faithful - but he is not entitled to nag/ judge/ call you a flirt for normal human interaction. And you seriously need to get rid of the guilt about your past.

You are young. You were young when you met and he is not entitled to hold your past against you - that is vile and unpleasant.

Me and my partner never - or rarely - talk about the past, it's not relevant to us now. I don't care how he behaved before we met, he doesn't care how I behaved - and believe me, there is a lot of murky crap in my past! I feel so relieved and happy to be with someone who would never, ever make me feel ashamed about my youthful behaviour....I couldn't be with someone who did.

I would recommend that if you are carrying around any shame/ worries about your past - you consider seeing a therapist, it was the best thing I ever did - and I had very similar issues. Have a look at the BACP website, it can be reasonably cheap and you can have short bursts of it rather than years if that's what you want.

You can't change him or alter your behaviour to appease him. Tell him that you are who you are, that he either trusts you or he has to go. I think you'll find that's a far more effective way of working out whether he is the one for you than constantly walking on egg shells.

btw. remember this - his jealousy is his issue, from his past - it's not about you.

Reverse post?

I was wondering that too, Proud. Hmm.

But agree with housewife and waterrat. There's clearly something going on here for both of you that's a lot deeper than specifics about call centre workers and what precise tone you take with them.

Thanks waterrat, that makes a lot of sense to me. I've always felt ashamed of the way I used to act and its hard to not talk about myself like that.

I think you're all right, I'm just going to have to not tolerate any jealousy or it's over. Really gets me down that I cant be trusted after all this time and I dont want to end up scared of talking to men, no matter how innocent it is.

Thanks for the advice ladies

Well, given the history, I'd say your partner is not really irrationally jealous. You're lucky that he stayed at all.

One should not 'play the field', one should play the field if one is single and not when one has a partner. Married or not, partners are also human and partners get upset when they are cheated on unless it has been agreed that cheating is allowed (a so-called 'free' relationship) and both partners agreed to it.

I am with Squeakytoy: you do not have to flirt with a call centre male employee. I never flirt, have never done so. If anyone at the other end of the phone line does, I will make it clear that I have a husband, also if anyone approaches me. I am occupied and there is an end to it. I am not available, speak to the hand 'cause the face ain't listening.

He needs to get over this, but really, that takes a lot of time or it will never happen. The trust was gone once the consistent flirting happened. Actually your partner was a kind of doormat who let it happen, only because he knew that there was someone else inside... That is commendable, but I think you are the last one to complain. Maybe you can try to compliment a man on his looks in ten years and see how he does. I would leave it off for now (for your own and his benefit).

she isn't flirting with a call centre employee -for goodness sake! That's focusing on the controlling behaviour of the partner - my partner would not even notice if I was talking to someone in a call centre. I would not even listen if he was! If he was chatting and laughing it would not occur to me to be jealous - this is absolutely ridiculous to focus on. I can't believe people are even mentioning that as though it's a real thing happening. It's not a reality - it's a symptom of a wider fear, which the OP cannot take responsibility for, as long as she knows she is being a good partner now.

Regardless of the past, if you choose to be in a realtionship with someone you have to trust them. If they break that trust, you make a decision whether you can continue to trust them. What you don't and can't do, if you want to be happy, is watch/ judge/ control. That is not acceptable. Trust means just that - trust. It means letting go - I know that, from my own hard won experience - you cannot live in a jealous and fearful relationship. It is the most poisonous thing - for both people. and you can't fix someone elses fears.

You need to sit down together and he needs to agree a clean start, built on real trust - if he can't, how can you relax and enjoy life? YOu can't be held hostage to your past for the rest of your life, you are only young, it's not reasonable. and as I said, find a way to talk through and look at your own guilt - because what often happens is we find partners who reflect back at us our own insecurities. ie. you are drawn to this man because he judges you - and that reflects your own judgement of yourself. You feel that he is right to be jealous of you because you are ashamed of your past behaviour - so he fits your view of the world.

Once you tackle that guilt and shame, you can pick out what is irrational in his jealousy of you.

I 'flirt' with dh's one of dh's best mates; I 'flirt' with people from call centres. It's not slinking up to a bloke at the bar with yer boobs pushed out and yer lips pouting and yer eyelashes fluttering.

It's a bit of friendly banter which just makes the conversation a bit more fun. It's harmless.

I don't think dh even notices! If he did, it wouldn't bother him, and more than his 'flirtations' bother me.

OP, he is being ridiculous. Please don't pander to him. If he trusts you he trusts you. If he doesn't nothing you can do will make him.

I think what happened here is there has been a kind of co-dependent thing going on. OP has been out of order with DP in the past in terms of 'flirting' - by her own admission. A pattern of mistrust has been set, and he now has some kind of upper hand, which is possibly what OP wanted (hear me out) - because some people flirt in order to test their partner's faith in them. It may be this you are refering to as your 'control' issue OP - you wanted him to prove how much he wanted you?

On the other hand, you were promiscuous (for want of a better, less Victorian word) in the past and that has never been dealt with. People do this kind of thing when they are immature - probably everyone went through that stage when they discover sexual independence and we just go with it - but we quickly learn that where other people get hurt it has to stop.

And we feel a bit of guilt, but generally the hurt isn't too bad, we used people, we let them use us, shit happens, you grow up. But I think you continued this with your DP in the earlier stages of your relationship and it has developed into another issue because now he can't trust you at all. Yet he was good to you at first, he had faith in you, saw the side of you that he loved - so he needs to get back to that place.

You have changed, you say, because of DS, you won't flirt - but the damage has been done with DP and you can't assume that just because you have suddenly matured and seen the light, that he will do the same.

I hope this makes sense OP.

I think you need someone to help you both draw a line in the sand and help you start afresh - what do you think OP?

Repeat

OP you are not behaving inappropriately
Your bf is.
You cannot fix him.
The only line that needs to be drawn is you making it clear his jealous behaviour is unacceptable.

I'd say your partner is not really irrationally jealous. You're lucky that he stayed at all

Are you for real kikibo or just a figment of some warped male imagination?

If the OP had screwed all of the local rugby team including substitutes while she was living with her dp she may, possibly and entirely depending on circumstances, have some cause to think that she was lucky he hadn't upped sticks.

Thank god there aren't too many like you in the world, even though you seem to have more than a tad in common with an allegedly real life housewife who appears to be of the opinion that the OP was rescued from a life of wanton depravity thanks to her blameless dp.

It occurs to me that the males of Stepford have allowed their wives to access the internet - subject to the usual strict supervision and limitations that govern their lives.

:o Izzy!

Kikibo, do you mean I should wait 10 years before I make a comment on if a man is attractive? Thats ridiculous reasoning!

I think you might be right Realhousewife, someone to help us draw a line in the sand could help. I'm just scared about going over old ground again. In my mind the past is the past, there's nothing I can do about it now apart from be a better person.

Bravo Izzy

You don't need someone to help you draw a line in the sand. You drew your own line years ago and now your dp needs to draw his.

All he has to do is draw the line in his mind and, if he crosses it, remind himself why he's drawn it and refrain from taking his irrational jealousy out on you.

It really is that simple.

If you're referring to me izzy, it's not what I'm saying at all. Of course he's not blameless. She's not wantonly depraved. It's not what I said at all. I'm saying that she has ended up in a co-dependent relationship with someone who may have set this up all along (the rescue) in order to abuse her and control her - of course that IS an option, but I have a slightly more developed brain than to assume that - OR, that the OP has a history of promiscuity (stated by OP) that she's finding hard to forgive herself for, implying that she has never really dealt with it. She's normalised the promiscuity which is not normally the way we develop - we normally develop and inhibit it. So I'm not saying OP is wrong or that her DP is right - it's not that simple in this case. There's a definite issue around her being prepared to mess him around in the first place - why would she do that - and why he would pursue her despite this and now use it as a way to control her? Or is she using it as a way to control him?

Ultimately this is a toxic relationship but they are both implicated in its probems. As I said there is a chance the relationship could be saved with a good counsellor that would be able to recognise if there are abuse issues, but it's not something that can be sorted out by telling her to leave him.

Izzy please don't insult me and assume I'm some kind of mysoginistic man in drag. I have an opinion and it's valid. My name is ironic - taken from Real Housewives of New Jersey/Orange County/New York series. I'm not a housewife and the concept of being a real one is the ultimate irony to me.

X-posted with you OP.

Why don't you want to go over old ground - do you know why you used to do what you used to do? Would it help to know or not - what do you think? But above all, do you think what you did has changed DP or do you think he saw you as a challenge to be mastered?

I dont know, I just think the past should stay in the past. I cant change anything I did so whats the point in talking about it? There's probably an awful lot of reasons why I behaved like that, I had a lot of personal and family problems growing up but I've not really thought about it that deeply.

Perhaps if you discuss it with someone it might help you let go of it. If you let go of it, nobody else will be able to use it against you, which is what might be happening here. Do you think he is using it against you or do you think he's just hurt and insecure? It can't be both...

"I'd say your partner is not really irrationally jealous. You're lucky that he stayed at all

Are you for real kikibo or just a figment of some warped male imagination?

If the OP had screwed all of the local rugby team including substitutes while she was living with her dp she may, possibly and entirely depending on circumstances, have some cause to think that she was lucky he hadn't upped sticks.

Thank god there aren't too many like you in the world, even though you seem to have more than a tad in common with an allegedly real life housewife who appears to be of the opinion that the OP was rescued from a life of wanton depravity thanks to her blameless dp.

It occurs to me that the males of Stepford have allowed their wives to access the internet - subject to the usual strict supervision and limitations that govern their lives."

Blameless maybe not, but can you blame him feeling that maybe all of it is not over yet?

And as for the real life housewife, I wouldn't call you a slag, so cut it. One does not do that stuff to one's partner without paying for it. If you don't want to be monogamous, then don't get a partner, that's all. Is that weird? If it is to you, someone needs to get real and, hint hint, it's not me.

"Kikibo, do you mean I should wait 10 years before I make a comment on if a man is attractive? Thats ridiculous reasoning!

I think you might be right Realhousewife, someone to help us draw a line in the sand could help. I'm just scared about going over old ground again. In my mind the past is the past, there's nothing I can do about it now apart from be a better person."

Oh, no, not ten years, maybe a little less if you feel confident he can take it.

You do need to understand that you may not think the past is a big deal, and you may have changed (that is entirely the case as it seems), but look at it from this side: if your partner was an alcoholic and he was off it, but at some point he seemed to be slightly merry on the phone, would you not get worried? I think I would.

Not saying that you can't find other men attractive, just that he may read more into it than you meant, but seeing the history he jumps to conclusions. That's not difficult is it?

Even after all the shit I'd already put him through

Erm, what shit would that be exactly?

Would that be the shit he signed up for when he, as a 26yr old man, made a play for an 18 yr old girl who was in a relationship with her boyriend of 3 yrs?

Woud that be the shit he signed up for when he chose to spend a year trying to prise the 18yr girl from said boyfriend?

For sure, it's not the likely manure he told the 18 yr old girl about not having eyes for anyone except her. Let's get real here - unless she was seeing him every night, how would she know whether he was spending his off-duty hours trying to shag anything that moved?

By my reckoning, you're what - 22/23, OP? But even at your tender age, there's an amateur armchair psychologist implying that you've got 'ishoos'. Guess what, honey? Our young years are for working out any issues we may have and indulging in a few that may be new to us. Use yours to get to know yourself and find out what makes you tick.

As for you having 'normalised promiscuity' , the default position of the human species is promiscuity. For some it's a lifestyle choice abeit it would seem to be one that you rejected some years ago, presupposing that you were enthusiatically engaging in loving the one you were with in the biblical sense instead of merely teasing their cocks.

The only issue that you have which needs immediate remedy is the issues your dp has around his irrational jealousy. Unless he's willing to work on his issues and stop giving you grief, you're best advised not to marry him until such time as he's proved that he is worthy of your fidelity.

Needless to say, under no cirumstances should you allow your dp to cause you to repress your spirit and/or alter your personality to suit his needs. It's in your best interests, and those of your ds, to cut and run if your dp shows any further signs of being a controlling abuser.

Aw, poor kikibo. From your somewhat scrambled post, above, it seems that your battery is going on the blink. Don't panic - I'm sure someone in Stepford will soon be along to plug you into the recharging socket in your basement while your hubby inflates his other doll in the bedroom.

Calm down Izzy. Read the posts carefully. Stop trying to offend people, it doesn't help. You and I have actually assessed her situation in a very similar way if you care to analyse what I have written - your analysis is changing as mine is, as OP is revealing more about her situation.

the default position of the human species is promiscuity may have been when we were still had tails, but not since we have been social animals.

I can agree to differ about OP normalising promiscuity, but can you - without trying to offend me that is? What you've said about kikibo is out of order - it's not funny or clever.

Sorry OP that this has developed into an argument. As you can see, I don't think this is black and white, I hope you can see my point - that if you don't address what happened to you in the past, even if you did leave DP, you may end up in another unsatisfactory relationship later on.