Can married men have close female friends?

[Yogagirl17]

DH & I have been having this hypothetical discussion for ages - why can't married men & women have close friends of the opposite sex? I used to have lots of close male friends when I was younger. These days its harder as most of the men I know are my friend's husbands. In theory DH and I agreed the taboo against such things was silly. Except now it's suddenly not so hypothetical and I'm having a really hard time with it.

DH went on this week long intensive training course and it's had a huge personal impact on him - all in really good ways. We're talking more than we have for years, he's being really open with me, he's listening, he's being more sensitive. He's also less stressed, managing his work better etc. It's win-win.

Except he really connected with this other woman on the course and because they both did it together they have this shared experience and find themselves talking/texting a lot etc and I'm totally struggling with this. He's been totally open and transparent with me about this, made it perfectly clear he doesn't "fancy" her (although he did say she is attractive) and nothing romantic would ever happen. But there is clearly something about this friendship that is different/special. He went to lunch yesterday with another woman from this training and that felt totally non-threatening.

Things I do know:
a) I totally trust him - I do not for one second thing he is going to end up in bed with this woman
b) I understand why this new friendship is important to him
c) He is trying to be sensitive to my feelings - for example, he asked how i would feel if he met her for coffee to discuss some stuff. I said it felt a bit weird for me but that I trusted him and if he wanted to he should. He chose not to.

So why is this so hard for me? Am I being silly? In so many ways our relationship is better than it has ever been so why am i feeling so threatened?

First of all, because of what has happened to me I'm probably over suspicious/sensitive, but ...
I think your feelings are quite natural, you feel threatened. It's good that your DH is being honest and open with you. However, I would ask what the other woman's agenda is (and her circumstances). Oddly the biggest alarm bell for me is that he chose NOT to meet her for coffee - why was that? because it upset you? because he's aware that maybe the OW is a threat to your relationship? because he was worried that he was getting in too deep?
I think you are doing all the right things - just keep talking and I hope it turns out OK, I think it will :)

PS - no, I don't think you're being silly. You might find this book useful, you can get it on amazon www.shirleyglass.com/book.htm

But there is clearly something about this friendship that is different/special. He went to lunch yesterday with another woman from this training and that felt totally non-threatening.

Really don't have time, but wanted to tell you to trust your feelings on this. I don't mean to be overly cynical, but I think that anyone could have an affair. Shirley Glass's book, recommended by TOGRIC, documents this very well and I second the recommendation.

And the fact that your DH is being open about his texting and contact with this woman is a red herring. My STBXW was the same with the bloke she ended up having an affair with; I told myself that she couldn't be because she was being so open.

You need to tell your DH that his relationship with this other woman makes you feel uncomfortable. Don't let him tell you that you are paranoid. You need to have an honest and frank discussion about this.

And actually, I don't think it matters what the woman's motives are: it's about your DH's behaviour.

It is perfectly possible for married people to have platonic friendships with members of the opposite sex. My husband has several close female friends. I have a number of close male friends. It is healthy and normal.

I third the recommendation for Not Just Friends - there are some useful quizzes on the website that may help you & your DH discuss boundaries and vulnerabilities. Platonic friendships are possible but there need to be boundaries and its important to discuss and agree on what these should be.

Unfortunately I learned the hard way that its too easy for a friendship to gradually turn into an affair - my H had an affair with a female friend he's known for over 20 years.

I believe it is perfectly possible for married and unmarried people to have close friends of the opposite sex. I think it would make for a depressing world if this were not the case.

But I think you are looking for specific advice on your specific situation, rather than an answer to the general question? My take on it is that if your relationship is strong and intimate and you love one another, your husband can develop a friendship with this woman. You cannot prevent someone from having an affair or being attracted to someone else (which I believe happens a lot - fleeting attractions I mean) by preventing them from having friends.

"He is trying to be sensitive to my feelings - for example, he asked how i would feel if he met her for coffee to discuss some stuff".

Telling you does not necessarily mean he is being sensitive to your feelings. By asking for your permission resolves any conflict in his mind but this time he decided not to. My guess too is that if the positions had been reversed he would not have liked it one bit. He told you that he found her attractive; again another red flag.

Am not surprised you felt somewhat threatened by this; he is not her counsellor and should not be acting as one. He is her work colleague - end of. Why are they still texting each other, is there a need to now the course is finished. Where are his professional boundaries here, they are in danger of being overstepped. This is in part how emotional affairs actually start; there is a perceived emotional connection between people which can be very powerful and heady stuff. Many people do not openly intend to have emotional affairs but the impact just the same is extremely damaging. Your H is treading on dangerous ground here by potentially overstepping the lines which should not be crossed.

"Platonic friendships are possible but there need to be boundaries and its important to discuss and agree on what these should be".

I would second that.

I think saying she was attractive wasnt bright, it will always ring bells.

It is not surprising that people who have been on a course if this type, or through any other intense experience, develop an emotional closeness with someone. Quite often, at the end of an intense programme several people will have found themsleves 'attracted' to or otherwise emotionally connected to the course tutor. It is part of our human nature about sharing our vulnerabilities with someone, and feeling an attachment.

It is good that the course is having a positive impact on your dh within the context of your relationship, and that provides a good point for you to discuss this with him.

What your dh is going through is similar to what can occur in counselling, where the client develops an attachment to the counsellor. A skilled therapist will know how to deal with this, usually before it becomes a problem. Perhaps you could share this with your dh, and discuss with thim how he can loosen the mental attachment he has. That involves him (on his own, or maybe with you):

• acknowledging the emotional connection;
• seeing it for what it is - a natural and common brain activity from sharing an experience, rather that the meeting of minds with a soul mate;
• balancing the feeling of emotional connection with a healthy dose of physical reality (would he share with her deatils of his own farting, belching, crapping, or vomiting, cutting his toenails or cleaning the toilet - would he want to know that about the reality of her life?);
• normalising their relationship, meeting and having a coffee, and accepting (for himself) that the emotional connection is as it should be, and appropriate to his status as YOUR partner.

If he can do that, at this stage, then he and the woman could continue to support each other professionaly without the risk to your relationship.

At the same time, you and he should build on the emotional connection that the two of you have. Talking about your own feelings for each other, remember strong emotional experiences that you have shared.

What doesn't work is him and the woman TOGETHER acknowledging the connection and discussing it, and trying not to act on it. That only deepens the mental belief of shared feeling and experience. Even if they agree that they will never see each other again, there will be a part of his mind that will still feel emotionally connected and therefore unavailable to you.

I'm not unbiased on this. Both my DH and I are mutually agreed that we would find opposite sex friendships on either side difficult. I in particular had a very close and long term friendship with a guy that I would never have thought I could ever be attracted to develop into a romantic relationship (before I met DH) at a point when I was vulnerable and I know that romantice feelings can spring up where least expected. Luckily we both come to our relationship not having such close friendships so it is not a "live" issue for us.

Despite not being biased I still think that I have a valid viewpoint in stating that I think there is a danger where your husband is sharing an experience which clearly has huge personal implications for him with a woman outside your relationship. My DH and I both feel that things of such magnitidue ought to be shared within the marital relationship and not sought outside of it. My DH is currently considering going on a NLP course and I am not fully bought in to the whole idea but he has made it clear that for reasons such as the ones you set out in your OP this has to be a shared experience.

Ultimately no matter why you are feeling threatened, you are and that means that there are things which need to be worked on in your relationship and this is where your DH's (and your) focus should be.

sorry - not being unbiased

New very quick intense friendship with opp sex = not the same as old friend of opposite sex who you've been mates with for yonks.

I'd be wary x

It's perfectly possible - just so long as there's no physical attraction. But in the case of dh and this woman you (and even possibly they) can't know this. I think sometimes a friendship can develop when the person is 'off limits'. For example I have a male friend who I met through his wife. Dh and I were friendly with them as a couple, though it's probably fair to say that they were more my friends with dh tagging along iyswim. Subsequently my friends divorced - both spent time alone with me throughout that period talking about their problems, and both knew that the other was doing so. I have remained good friends with the man and go out socially with him sometimes - to the theatre, for a drink etc. Dh was very uncomfortable with this at first and said 'Can't you see it's different now that he's single?' Well actually as far as I'm concerned no it's not - he's my friend but I'm not physically attracted to him even though I can see (objectively) that he is attractive and has a nice body. I would've found it very difficult if dh had tried to force me not to see my friend, just as I would if he objected to one of my female friends for some reason. However, I do see that there is potentially a conflict between wanting to insist that it's fine for me to remain friends with another man and being respectful and understanding of dh's concerns.

Unfortunately nothing that's been said here has put my mind at rest.
I'm also pretty sure that reading a book about it is only going to feed my fears more. He said he chose not to meet her for coffee because he didn't want to upset me but strangely this didn't really make me feel any better - in a way it only served to highlight the importance of this other relationship. If it had really been no big deal he probably would have just gone ahead with it. Ugh, I hate this feeling so much! (Sarah, btw, this was NLP - it was amazing, it has really changed his life and I'm thinking of doing it myself next spring but....)

I have many male friends who I go for lunch/dinner/coffee/drinks with regularly, and my partner has no problem with this. However, these are really close friends from uni who I lived with, and in the same light I'd have no problem with him doing the same with old uni friends.

However, I admit I would be wary of new friendships. I can't quite put my finger on why though! Perhaps it's easier as we went to the same uni and know the same people, so it doesn't feel like there's any threat there.

I completely understand this ringing alarm bells. I don't think I'd be happy with him telling me he'd spent a week getting close with an attractive woman, and then coming home and texting her all the time!

So I completely think that men and women can be friends when married/in serious relationships. But only when both partners are happy with these friendships.

Trust your instincts and have a chat with him about boundaries and what you are and are not comfortable with.

I agree with Babyhammock. It's the sudden intensity of this new friendship that would set the alarm bells ringing. Add in the fact that he finds her attractive and it's a potent mix.

I think your dh needs to take a step back from this friendship. To use your own words "there is clearly something about this friendship that is different/special."

I think that several posters have nailed the issue: namely that there is nothing inherently at issue with opposite sex close friends. I have several, including one with whom I was involved sexually, but they are close because I have known them for so long.

Yogagirl please don't dismiss the book (Not "Just Friends": it contains many important lessons about "affair-proofing" your relationship and how to deal with things before they progress to the affair stage, and is very pertinent to your situation. I guess that most people only read it after they have experienced affairs, but prevention is better than a cure.

And I'm not saying that your DH intends to have an affair, but there are many red flags here. I think that your DH is overstepping boundaries. If, as you say, he is sensitive to your feelings, then it is not unreasonable to expect him to make compromises in response to your concerns. Again, as others have stated, he needs to consider how he would feel if the situation were reversed. He would also benefit from reading the book too.

I used to have lots of male friends but they've faded out largely. Not because of DH being jealous but because of having children and the whole "dads nights" and "mums nights" thing, I've been forced to socialise with these women who're perfectly nice but I must admit given the choice I'd probably get on better (in a non sexual way) with some of their husbands. Also a couple of very close male friends have been effectively warned off me by their possessive insecure wives...it's a shame as with one we had 20 years history and were best of mates but I never see him anymore .

What you talk about though would make me think, but I don't think it sounds like he'd have an affair. I think within long term relationships you can have transient flirtations and attractions to other people but still remain together. And I personally don't believe that one person can meet all your needs, emotionally/spiritually sometimes you might need something different from someone else. It doesn't been you can't still be together with your partner.

I do think when people go on courses or work in environments such as you describe you can form quite intense emotional attachments that can seem quite affirming and validating. I used to work on a secure unit with highly disturbed adolescents. As a team we were very very close to each other (ie staff!), we had to look out for each other all the time and manage a highly challenging group. We also spent hours and hours together managing the most complex human emotion imaginable. I know quite a few crossed the line and it became physical, that never happened with me but I did become quite reliant emotionally on the attachments I formed there. Ultimately I begane to find it all too claustrophobic and intense and got another job. Also I was concerned about the effect it was having on my own relationship!

yogagirl, nipped back in at lunchtime, because this is bothering me :(. I agree with notanotherstat, please don't dismiss the Shirley Glass book -you say you're worried about it feeding your fears - I think they will grow on their own regardless. Regard the book as a way to protect your relationship, there is so much useful information and insight in it, forewarned is forearmed. I can't recommend it highly enough. It would be good for your DH to read as well, it sets out boundaries etc. so clearly. So many 'decent' people can find themselves sliding into things without realising until it's too late. I'm sure you will feel better if you take some positive action.

Why don't you get him to invite her to dinner, with her OH if she has one, and then you can all be friends. Perhaps it would feel better if their friendship wasn't so exclusive but included you as well.

Agree with ToniSoprano. If your DH is to continue being friends with this woman then you need to get to know her as well. She may be keen to meet you and perfectly nice and friendly... if she isn't, there is a problem there.

yes invite her to dinner you'll soon pick up if there's anything more to this? Is she single? Sorry but alarm bells are ringing for me too. Agree NLP is fab though and you should go for it when the time comes.

Here's the Not Just Friends website.

I personally like to keep things simple.

Far too nebulous to be making new best friends of the opposite sex.