Is this morally wrong? A tricky question

[lolaflores]

Recently returned from a school reunion. On the subject of one patricularly unpleasant piece of work, it became apparent to me, that most of the people started the reminiscense with "that time she hit me". Again and again, that was what was repeated.

So, in light of that and my own treatment at her hands i wonder the following;
to bring a civil case against her. No surprises this happened in Ireland. She has left a wake of damage behind her, a total psychopath. This is only the kernel of a thought, not even an idea. I want her to feel as terrorised as all us kids felt. Punched, pinched, slapped, humiliated, physcially thrown around, smacked on top of the head, shoved. made kneel on the floor and say endless rosaries. i do not remember much teaching going on. kids wetting themselves. mindless fear and terror every day.

I could not even guarantee that anyone would give statements, or how to go about it. I want to scare the shit out of her at the very least.

I went to a convent boarding school in rural Ireland. The nuns were the same mix of people that you would find in any average group of women - some happy, some depressed, some content, some bitter - not one of them ever laid a finger on any of us. However my DH would have suffered and witnessed the same treatment as the OP. Would it be possible to confront the nun personally to see if she has any remorse - you might get more closure that way or at least it might help you make a decision about how to proceed?

Do you have a quarter of a million quid to spend on a civil case, cos they do cost a hefty sum.

Just adding to my previous post- it sounds as if the reunion was the chance for you all to have a good moan. Fair enough. But would you have even thought about exacting some kind of vengeance without meeting all your old friends? I doubt it.

I think it would be incredibly hard to prove that any of this took place- you are relying on memories, and although cases are resolved regarding sexual abuse, then I don't think your experiences fall into that category.

What I think is sad- and telling- is that your desire for some kind of pay-back outweighs being philosophical about it and letting it all go.

You are setting yourselves up for a lot of heartache if it went through the courts- and you have to decide if it really would be worth it.

Why can't you all make do with having a good moan, shrug your shoulders, and get on with life now? I think somehow you need to put this behind you maybe with counselling or a support group for you and your friends- or you stand in dager of getting old, bitter and twisted over this.

The moral question for me was my desire to want her to experience the terror she put people through without a blink of regard for outcomes. That I wonder is whether those are reasons enough. I really want to have her shit herself that she would have to stand up and answer for her behaviour.

Oh dear- so 2 wrongs make a right in your world?

Where exactly is your moral compass?

But if the op was feeling this desire for the perpertrator to feel the same fear and it was a man, a partner, would we understand that more?

OP, definitely take this further. Have only skim read, but surely this is a criminal case not you launching a civil case?

Having experienced a range of abuse myself, I know how deep the scars go and those saying let it go can go fuck themselves.

Speak to the gardai about a criminal case against the nun. If you wanted to pursue a civi case, you should do it against the school.

Hi, I can sympathise.. My brother was victimised by a nun in his first year of school aged 4 in 1983. It was bullying really more than abuse I suppose. She used to get the class to laugh at him and tape recorded her making him cry and then played it to the class... There loads of stuff. He will not send his children to catholic school and has no faith now at all. It hugely affected him as a child, his confidence, self esteem, self worth everything! I have no advice but I always say id kill the cow if I saw her now! Do what you need to do. Think it needs to be spoken about and she needs to pay fir what she has done. Every nun i have ever known has been evil.

Police case not civil action. Sounds like she repeatedly broke the law. I'm sorry this happened to you & your school mates OP. Lots of pros & cons to taking action but you are right to consider it. Enough "sweeping under the carpet" is enough.

try contacting www.oneinfour.ie they are an irish website but might be able to give you some advise on what to do next.

good luck and i hope you get what you're looking for but do try and be clear about what you want out of a legal case before you embark on this. The sad thing is even nuns from the magdalene laundries haven't been punished for what they did. But get it on record and start the process just be realistic about the outcome.

good luck

What Pam Beesey said earlier. A letter to her, the mother superior, and the head teacher of the school. This is not just one person acting vilely, but a whole organisation which let her. Were there no checks? This might give you the emotional redress you are looking for. (I can't see what the police could do - they would want dates, names, facts; there might not be enough to go on.)

As for whether it is ethically wrong to seek revenge, yes it probably is. But explaining your distress and anger cannot be wrong.

I agree with almostgrownup that 'explaining your distress and anger cannot be wrong.'

If you can get another former pupil to initially agree to support your allegation, that would be helpful but not essential at this stage.

The teacher who picked me up by the scruff of the neck to beat me when I was 5 years old is dead. If she were still alive, I know I would go to the police.

Good luck.

Some terrible stories here. I feel for you all.

OP, can you talk to some of the people at the renunion to see if others would support you? It will be a hard road to travel alone, though not impossible. It's not uncommon for people to get worked up about these things when in a group but back down from taking action in the cold light of day.

YOu say you've had a lot of counselling and now you've come to the realisation that at least one source of the sorrow you have experienced in your life is your treatment at the hands of this sadistic teacher. The comments to 'let it go' are deranged imo - unbelievable. Your anger and outrage is apparent: it is not unusual to hear people bay for blood when they have been abused as children - imo it is a healthy response. You are obviously, and rightly, extremely angry and you want justice - perfectly acceptable and moral: she is still teaching. The school, you say, moved her around - they knew what she was doing and what she was like.

It takes someone to get angry enough to bring injustices like this out into the open. EightiesChick is right, however - not many people have enough fire in their belly to propel them forward, and could well drop back. I hope you find someone/s to do this with but I do hope you do it. As others have said, the Catholic church is an obscenely wealthy and powerful force and litigation would very probably be drawn out, but I think you have to get this story out. I hope it - even the process of stepping forward for justice - lays your demon to rest and prevents other children from being abused by her; as well as bringing the school to account for allowing her to continue teaching and covering it up.

Google 'The Irish Survivors of Child Abuse'

springy the OP said the nun is no longer teaching in the school.

I think she ought to let it rest- if it was that big an issue for her would ithave needed a reunion to egg her on with her quest for justice?

I went to a mixed grammar school in the 1960s. There were plenty of teachers whose behaviour could be considered sadistic and where they stepped over the mark. Boys were often "slippered" and one teacher did so until his face was puce and his veins in his neck bulging. Others threw blackboard rubbers across the class- if it hit your head, so what, was the attitude. They would also think nothing of a quick clip round the head in passing. and if some were not violent they had a sharp line in sarcasm that cut just as deeply.

all, sadly, normal and just accepted.

None of us would now dream of taking a teacher to court- it was life.

sexual abuse is different IMO as it's an absolute- but how you would ever prove your case I have no idea as what you write here is very subjective.- children may have been terrified but who knows if that was in proportion to what was being carried out?

I don't know if you are religious now, but if so, have you not considered forgiveness- otherwise you are on a long hard road which may not end up giving you te outcome you think it will.

Could you confront her? Could you just ask her to explain herself? You poor thing.

Most recently, what Springy and Bubble said.

I know someone who did go after someone who abused her as a child when she had a son the same age. She got justice. I have always admired her for that.

I would expose her and watch how many people come forward with their own stories, she won't have only abused your class.

Oh so you have something contructive to add Bubble? You might like to read the entire thread and then you would see plenty of other posts saying exactly the same as I have. If you had any intelligence at all, you would be able to see that my point is about degree of behaviour- and what was once acceptable behaviour. As I've been a teacher for 30+ years and was taught in the 60s myself, I might have actually a better persepctive on this than you have. I don't have to have suffered abuse personally to be able to appreciate suffering.

And there is no need to be so downright rude.

You think my posts are crap- well, sorry, but what gives you the right to be so rude- and think that your opinion is better or even right?

Good for you, going to the police is absolutely the right thing to do. The catholic church have made token gestures in acknowledging abuses that went on in their schools but they're only seeing the tip of the iceberg. Treatment like you had is/was not normal. thus needs to be acknowledged and the more people like you who come forward asking for justice the better.

Excuse spelling, bloody iPhone!

I think you're entirely right to be angry. In your place I'd talk to my school friends and then probably go to the cops. Maybe it won't get to court, but if the best that you can hope for is that this evil woman gets her smug retirement interrupted by a knock on the door from a person in uniform with some detailed questions about the past - well, that's better than nothing.