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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Original poster

Is this morally wrong? A tricky question

81 replies

lolaflores · 17/11/2011 12:45

Recently returned from a school reunion. On the subject of one patricularly unpleasant piece of work, it became apparent to me, that most of the people started the reminiscense with "that time she hit me". Again and again, that was what was repeated.

So, in light of that and my own treatment at her hands i wonder the following;
to bring a civil case against her. No surprises this happened in Ireland. She has left a wake of damage behind her, a total psychopath. This is only the kernel of a thought, not even an idea. I want her to feel as terrorised as all us kids felt. Punched, pinched, slapped, humiliated, physcially thrown around, smacked on top of the head, shoved. made kneel on the floor and say endless rosaries. i do not remember much teaching going on. kids wetting themselves. mindless fear and terror every day.

I could not even guarantee that anyone would give statements, or how to go about it. I want to scare the shit out of her at the very least.

OP posts:

HeresTheThingBooyhoo · 17/11/2011 13:10

i would just like to add that i was taught by a few nuns and they were fantastic teachers and were the most caring of all my teachers so it isn't true that all nuns are bitches or child abusers. my RE teacher still holds a place in my heart. a truly inspirational woman even though i am an atheist.

droves · 17/11/2011 13:14

Why did i know OP was about a nun /teacher ?

I went to catholic school too.

Original poster

lolaflores · 17/11/2011 13:20

Yep, just looked on the National board for safeguarding children which is the catholic churches first port of call for reporting. then went to the gardai site, which is confusing.

I do think I have to get other witnesses and victims, as I can't speak for them. Not sure if my testimony would stand up. however, she was moved around ALOT. This is going to be a long dark road, if I summon up the guts an the will to follow it. When I see what other people went through, i wonder if I am being precious. but the terror she inflicted each and every day to all of us. I see my DD's go to school with joy and a light heart. I went out every day crying and caem in the same state in the evening. there was no let up

OP posts:

buggerlugs82 · 17/11/2011 13:25

This reply has been withdrawn

This post has been withdrawn due to privacy concerns.

Original poster

lolaflores · 17/11/2011 13:37

buggerlugs many thanks for the clarity. when it was so rampant, you forget what it essentially is. And your name is the term of affection used between me and my best friend.

OP posts:

izzywhizzyspecanpie · 17/11/2011 13:37

It should be remembered that the Roman Catholic Church is well-versed in defending the indefensible and, as the richest institution on earth, has billions of £s and umpteen well-practised legal staff at its disposal.

Bringing a lone civil case against this global institution will cost you a small fortune in legal fees and, under the circumstances, you are best advised to go direct to the police and report the historic abuse you suffered at the hands of your nun teacher.

Give the police the names and addresses of your fellow pupils and let them do the necessary investigative work although, of course, there is no harm in ascertaining from your former schoolmates whether they are of similar mind to yourself.

Original poster

lolaflores · 17/11/2011 13:38

heresthething equally, we had proper works of sainthood amongst the loons. real role models of spiritual depth and value. one of whom i regularly try to emulate in my life. not very well though

OP posts:

MrsMumf · 17/11/2011 14:13

Civil proceedings and criminal proceedings have different time limits, I think it may be too late for criminal prosecution if it was smacking alone.

tadpoles · 17/11/2011 14:22

You could report her to the police, particularly if a lot of people are prepared to give statements. I have given statements in support of a criminal investigation against someone who worked for me occasionally - it was no big deal, loads of people gave statements, although the person got off in the end (it was against a nanny who was suspected of criminal activity).

Alternatively you could 'name and shame' the institution where it happened on a public forum. Give dates etc so it would be pretty obvious who. Others could post annonymously (a bit like 'rate my teacher')!

Peachy · 17/11/2011 14:22

I have no idea if it is do-able but morally wrong as in title? the opposite: you have a moral right to justice, to see this woman receive punishment for the misery she forced you to endure.

IShouldHaveBeenAPairOfClaws · 17/11/2011 14:58

Eh? What on earth is up with all these people saying 'let it go'? This woman abused children for fucks sake, she should face the consequences. Would you be saying 'let it go' if it was a man?

Original poster

lolaflores · 17/11/2011 17:25

The moral question for me was my desire to want her to experience the terror she put people through without a blink of regard for outcomes. That I wonder is whether those are reasons enough. I really want to have her shit herself that she would have to stand up and answer for her behaviour.
A friend has suggested that if there was no medical treatment needed for the assualts then I would not have a case. I have also wondered about the time limits.
Plenty of folk at home would say let it go. She is still deeply embedded in the town and has quite the profile. needless to say there would be an almighty fuss. to say the least.

OP posts:

PamBeesly · 17/11/2011 17:43

lola I too was educated in a convent school, there were a lot of lay teachers too, some just as bad as the nuns. Some of the nuns were horrible though, as a smaller child I'd have fingernails stuck into my wrists as punishment, surely thats not right. Some nuns should be boiled. Others were sweet and kind. The profile of the nun in question in your case should not even come into question. She did horrible things to a group of people, I would actually get together with some of her previous students who encountered abuse and write her a letter, also send it to the Mother Superior and school. I'd await a response. She is still not teaching is she?
I wouldn't let it go and like you I don't believe counselling is the answer to everything, sometimes you need to see justice being done. Working on yourself, however helpful, isn't going to change her outlook or sense of entitlement to abuse.

perfumedlife · 17/11/2011 18:26

Lola I agree you should go to the police and see if any of your schoolfrieds will press for charges too.

I know a woman who had similiar experiences with the nuns at her school and it was ruining her life. She finally pressed charges along with her siblings and won her case. Prior to this, her house was like a cell. She was still so afraid of anyones (nuns) wrath, even as an adult, that she couldn't leave any personal belongings/toiletries in her own bathroom. She slept with one sheet, believing she wasn't worthy of warmth and comfort. Those women were total bitches to those kids.

bubblechristmaspop · 17/11/2011 18:28

There is no absolute time limit on physical and sexual abuse cases as a child. You don't need to have been to hospital either.

TravellerForEver · 18/11/2011 09:04

If the only reason youdo that is for her to experience the same fear than you had as a child, then morally I think you are wrong.
It will only bring you at her level, making you do the same thing that you have hated as a child ie being hurt and being felt totally terrorized. If you didn't like it, why would you want to do that to her? It would only be a revenge.

If you do because you want justice, you want people to be aware of what has happened all those years ago. If you want the awareness to be raised and for her to 'pay' for what she did (in a legal sense). If you want to bring closure to yourself and others.
Then by any mean, do it!!
No acts like this should be tolerated and I can't see why there would be some time limit etc...
But don't do it out of revenge. It will eat you out.

dickiedavisthunderthighs · 18/11/2011 09:28

I don't understand the posters who are telling you to 'let it go'. What shite advice; it's clear from your opening post that that simply isn't an option.
Someone who has spent their career bullying and hurting children shouldn't be allowed to get away with it, no matter how old they are now.

WineAndPizza · 18/11/2011 09:43

Booy thanks for that - it's interesting to see the other side of things too (not to this specific case but to the 'all nuns are bitches' type comments). I also was taught by a few nuns who were all caring, thoughtful and good people.

However, sadly this sort of abuse has been too common. OP do you think if you spoke to the others from the reunion they would be keen to press ahead or do you think they'd have the attitude that some posters have mentioned of their parents - that it was just what happened then?

SharkieLeRouge · 18/11/2011 10:53

are there time limits for this in Ireland?

ditzymitzy2 · 18/11/2011 11:44

the 1970s were the 1970s

that was how things were then - some better, some worse.

move on.

ThighsTheLimit · 18/11/2011 11:54

Was this not the way some teachers were in the 70s and 80s? I don't think it's a nun/catholic thing

I had a teacher who made us kneel on keys facing the blackboard if we got sums wrong.
She had a giant ring she turned round so that the stone was on the palm side, then slapped kids on the head.
She locked kids in the cupboard - even forgot about my brother one day til my mum went looking for him when he didn't come in from school.

She was well known as an ogre, but she definitely wasn't the only one.

She wasn't catholic, and certainly wasn't a nun.

ameliagrey · 18/11/2011 12:04

What exactly do you hope to gain from this?

If you want justice- or revenge?- then you could find yourself going through more emotional turmoil than you ever experienced during the events themselves.

Is it worth it?

The outcome could be imrpisonment.

i think you have to be aware of all the shit that would hae to be exposed in a court- for everyone involved.

They may like a moan at a reunion- but would they take to the witness box with so much enthusiasm?

I was taught in England in the 50s and 60s- and was a teacher from mid 1970s.

Corporal punishment was legal in the 60s- boys used to get the cane and slipper often- and in a way that was often disproportionate to the "crime".

If you are intent on taking this to court- and it would to be criminal court, i think- then you first neeed to consult a lawyer.
They will advise if ther e is any case- because you will need evidence that can be proved.

You also need to be sure that what was done was illegal and not simply unpleasant but legal.

WineAndPizza · 18/11/2011 12:37

Blimey Thighs !! That's awful.

babyhammock · 18/11/2011 13:33

I also can't believe the posters who are saying 'just leave it'

I really hope you get a result with this. It was undoubtly abuse x

IggyPup · 18/11/2011 14:15

My husband had his thumb broken in a CB school when hit by a sadist with a the leg of a chair, he was later knocked unconcious by the same CB for a minor offence. He was 10 years old. It took his father to go up to the headmaster and tell him if that man ever laid a finger on his child again he would thrash him in public. This was in the 60s and was a radical response from a parent.

(My Gran swung a nun around the school yard and banged her into a wall for beating my Aunt, this was in the 30s, even more radical.)

After you have contacted the Gardai, would you consider setting up some sort of group of this nun's victims. Maybe meeting and discussing your shared experiences could be helpful?

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