Been a complete mug for money, cannot understand it.

[Saturdaysgirl]

Hi,

I posted a couple of weeks back about my long distance relationshi[p with Mr california and how he was out of work STILL and I was sick of sending over money to pay his rent. We were engaged and I was looking at emigrating, leaving my flat in this climate. I was continually worried about the whole scene.

Well it has escalated.

When I wrote that thread, I did indeed break up with him. I may be a fool sometimes, but it never lasts too long, and I told him not to change, but I was going to leave. The issues were him drinking too much (binging every two or three weeks, sometimes longer breaks in between but still drinking all day the next day and then maybe the next and the next day after that as well!!!!) - him not having been in stable work cos he couldn't afford to insure his car and therefore would not drive it. Exceot to drink drive down to the store for more JD.

When I went there for visit no 4 in Sept, he had passed out the one time we had a few drinks (I was thinking, I've got to leave, this is awful, but HOW am I going to do it without hurting him???) - anyway I went on his laptop and his facebook was open and I looked (great adult relationship behaviour which I am ashamed of) and found lots of messages from old girlfriends of his.

Stuff like (from one girl) 'You broke my heart blah blah' - why is he having recent convos like that with girls???

One from him - 'Why aren't we fucking??? Its the one thing we were good at!'

I thought, well that's obviously it. I told him in the morning and he said it was all innocent and that he says inappropriate things when he is drunk.

You are all going 'Yeah yeah' right now.

In my heart I was terribly worried. How would I bring the whole scene off - for both of us? How would I sort my flat to rent it safely, go there, wjhat if his income was always sporadic??? I mean srsly? I certainly didn't want to be paying for it all!

And then emails like that??? Innocent or not, I am not having that sort of conversation with ANY other men. If it was innocent, the one thing he couldn't explain was the fact that he was dealing inappropriately with other women.

Anyway so I came home grave in my heart, but carried on.

One day I saw ANOTHER comment on facebook!! This time it was regarding a photo - 'Oh you're so beautiful, kinda missing my ex-girlfriend right now....' (That girl was his ex.) I negged him to set me free. He told me he was cheering her up, she is gay and split with her girlfriend, I am mean for not
wanting him to cheer her up!!!

Again, innocent or not, I don't want to be with a man who behaves like that. It had to end.

Then that breakup took place. It was so sad! We had been so close, I had committed to marrying him, I liked my new surname - all that. I broke up with him on the Saturday and facebooked that gay woman asking if she'd keep an eye on him cos I thought he might drink too much and I worried about him having a heart attack cos he got chest pains - I mean srsly, give up the drink fool!!!

I didn't hear from her until Monday night.

Foolishly, I had got back with him in the interim week!! He had emailed me such a sweet message saying that he was still there, not going anywhere, he was quietly going to carry on with the shit job he is doing and get things together and somehow we'd find a way. I was happy on one hand but the dreadful worries also come along with that.

BUT he drank all weekend again!!!! I hate it! I woke up early on Monday yet a bloody gain, worrying about his suitability. I then told him that. It hung in the balance. I dreaded breaking up with him AGAIN - not to hurt him you see!!!

When I got home, that woman had responded to me - asking me what dates we were together and had we ever made it official!

On the one hand, that let me off the hook completely - fresh start, don't have to worry about him at all, the END.

On the other - has he mugged me off for 2 years???????????

I actually rang her up for a chat. This is what she said -
a) He has always been crashing at people's places, borrowing money, in and out of work.
b) He had her up the wall by her throat when they were 21.
c) He cheated on her.
d) They went to a gig together in May which he was contacting me all the way around - 'Hi I'm going love you!! Hi I'm back, had a great time, here are the photos and youtube vids.' I was lying on nmy sofa thinking, aww bless he's had a nice time, good for him!!!
e) On Oct 16 he sent her a private msg which she read to me saying she had the most beautiful face he had ever seen and something about can she come round as he wants to kiss her.

She then let me be her friend on facebook so I could see her video of the gig. I was too drunk by the time I watched it to really see him, and didn't care by that time anyway. But I did see lots of long comment threads between them, very intimate, she chased him sometimes, but he was saying stuff which I consider to be inappropriate.

I wrote to her thanking her for letting me see all that, but saying I had also seen the way she had been speaking to my boyfriend and never wanted to hear from he or her ever again, and then I blocked her.

I have told him he is a waster and a loser and that I hated America anyway and felt lucky to have escaped him and not lost my little flat and only watsed 2 years on him.

But now it is sinking in and I don't know what to think. I believed in the lovely long emails he wrote to me. He used to talk to me all the time. Morning noon and night. I cannot reconcile it with having secrets. I had no secrets from him. I haven't been paying his rent since Aug and have sent nothing for some weeks now, and he was working and I honestly believed in him, that he could work it all out and we would be fine.

But I cannot reconcile the other women and the money I have leant him and the lies. Have I been a complete fool? I cannot believe it.

That is a long and sad story. Please don't take this the wrong way but I think you might benefit from some sort of counselling to examine how you got into this situation and how you rebuild your self-esteem. Its pretty unusual to tolerate this level of fuckery from someone in a long distance relationship and having a non-judgemental person to talk it over with will help you come to terms with it. I think its great that you are now questioning this situation.

To have sent him money - yes a complete fool
To have believed his ridiculous lies - yes a complete fool
To have worried more about hurting his feelings more than protecting your own heart, money, flat, security, life and friends in this country - yes, a complete fool
To have blamed the FB woman for talking to your 'boyfriend' like that when she had no idea he was also in a relationship with you - yes, a complete fool.
To be too afraid to be a single woman to get rid of this drunken, abusive, exploitatiive dishonest excuse fro a man - yes, a complete fool
To have thought that he would stop his drinking and change, or that your love etc could change him - yes, a complete fool.

HOWEVER mistakes are there for us to learn from. You obviously have a good and innocent heart, are forgiving and believe the best in people. these are good qualities, and you will find a lloving relationship with a man who treats you with honesty and respcet. But only if you learn from your mistakes this time. Which is why I have been honest, if brutal.

Thank your lucky stars you came out of it before you lost your flat, and go out into the world with you head held high and your expectations of what a genuinely loving man can offer set high too.

Good luck!

Is the fault mine then, ArtVandelay?

SaturdaysGirl, no it isn't your fault - he was at fault for lying to you, two timing you, taking your oney and generally taking advantage of you. He was very much at fault.

Your only mistake was not taking enough care of you, and I think ArtVandalay is right and that it might help to see someone who can help you believe more in yourself and less in people who offer sweet talk.

It isn't your fault, you haven't done anything wrong, but this man took advantage of you, and being taken advantage of leaves all of us feeling wretched.

Its not really about fault / blame. Its about moving away from the situation and coming to terms with it.

Your Ex sounds like a damaged and damaging person. Many people would consider this type of person unsuitable for a long term commitment. You choose to have a relationship with him and give him money even when you had some serious doubts about his drinking and fidelity. Its not your 'fault' but you must see that you allowed it to happen for whatever reason.

Thats why a counsellor could help you to find out why you didn't listen to your doubts and how to avoid similar in the future.

But I just can't believe the whole thing - two whole years - was a complete lie!!!!! How am I going to live with what a complete fool I have been?? I have had 2 boyfriends before this one, and while neither were right for me, one was Oxbridge and forces, and very nice indeed and he is now married and I am friends with he and his wife, and the 2nd was a burly Italian family man who took excellent care of me, but I just didn't want to marry.

HOW did I like this guy so much? Because I DID, I thought he was fantastic!!! I was so excited when he asked me to marry him! The clouds only started coming across the sun not too long ago.

I think I was naive about the drinking tho.

But he was working for a company last Chrismtas and bought me and his daughter diamond necklaces. The second he got that job, the money was not needed from me. Then the compoany lost 2 contracts and laid evertyine off cos they couldn't afford to pay themselves yet he rang them up and volunteered to work for free, which he did, but slightly less hard as they weren#'t paying him, and then it sort of fizzled out.

Dun thats what I'm trying to get across :)

He's a sh*t - no doubt about that!

Lets put it this way

if you give this cocklodging wastrel one more chance then YES you are a complete fool and YES it will be your fault

Art that's the thing isn't it, I did allow it to continue. I guess I believe that people can sort themselves out. And there was NO inkling of cheating whatsoever. He is maintaining that he didn't, but the emails say it all to me. Even if he didn't fancy them or whatever, he still engaged in conversations of that intimate nature when he had me in his life.

Yes you have been a complete fool. But not at much as me! For the last 18 years he has been financially exploiting me, and I let him, because I thought I loved him, and once we had enough money/the kids were older/he found what he wanted to do things would be alright at last! From well before that, he was reluctant to do things together, but I thought love would conquer all!

No experience is wasted, IMHO. It is -making to feel a fool, and it makes you doubt your own judgement. When you get some distance, time-wise, you'll feel better. In the meantime, don't beat yourself up!

sorry, that should read cocklodging cheating wastrel

How many times have you actually met this person OP?

Anyfucker, no way whatsoever. I am so ashamed. But trying not to make it 'all about me.' At the end of the day he did this, altho I did have a hand in it, which I must really look at.

Don't be ashamed.

The shame is his.

He took your love for him, your hope for the future and trashed it. He used you appallingly

Make it the last time you ever speak to him, though

And please, take some major steps to tune up your twat radar...it is massively on the blink

Saturday you met him 4 times, its really unusual to agree to marry someone you've met 4 times. Or to send them money. Please forget all the drinking and the Facebook and the diamonds and just focus on yourself and what you need to do to get healthy and realistic boundaries with people. Just focus on you and I think you'll start to feel better a lot sooner than if you keep going into all this mad detail and rehashing it all. Its okay to make mistakes and I don't think feeling shame will help you to feel better but you must not get drawn back into this mans madness - you cannot save him.

Oh, don't be ashamed. Just do as you are telling yourself and ask why and how this happened - first and biggest step to making sure it doesn't again.

For what it's worth, I am sure he was entranced with you, and in the moments he was being sweet and promising you the earth, he meant it. But alongside being charming to you he was mostly in love with himself, by the sounds of it. Seeking flirty conversations with other women, charming you into sorting out HIS problems, blaming YOU for being 'mean' to a woman he claimed was gay...very self centred. I'm sure he never hated you - just loved you in a way that he put himself first. And that isn't real love, it's a fantasy based on the idea of being in love.

Ok so this is NOT an abusive relationship, but he certainly abused your good nature, your trust and your confidence.

How you feel right now is how it feels when you come out of an abusive relationship, so I think I can point you in a direction that may be less uncomfortable for you.

Coming out of an abusive relationship leaves you feeling monumentally idiotic, that you didn't see what was going on, that everything was fake, and that you were wasting all your time and energy on someone totally worthless.

WRT the comments about being a complete mug. I'm going to disagree with ArtVandeley slightly.

YOU were not the MUG, he was.

The only mistake you made was to trust him, to believe in him, and to be kind to him. Not one of these qualities is a bad one.

As yours was a LDR, you only had his words to go on, and dishonest, deceitful people will tell you what they want you to believe.

This man is a conman, a bum, a deadbeat. He is a liar, a cheat and a mooch (as they say in the US) Had you been there, or been american, he may have given himself away somehow.

Let me tell you this: HE chose to lie to you. He CHOSE to cheat on you, HE decided to con you, SCAM you. He did. HIM.

This failure is ALL about him and nothing at all to do with you.

OK so you have effectively lost 2 years of your life, but believe me, that is nothing. Most abusers are only really warming up at 2 years in, most of us get trapped for 10+ years and have kids with them.

At least you can close this door, and never have to re-open it!

There is nothing wrong with you at all, this guy would have conned many, many others. perhaps just learn not to take people at their word so readily. Take some time to regroup, heal, re-tune your twat-dar and you'll be fine.

you met him 4 times, its really unusual to agree to marry someone you've met 4 times. Or to send them money.

Could not agree more. Focus on this sentence and ask yourself why you thought this was normal ?

Thanks for the advice and constructive criticism. I will take it all on board.

Anyfucker yes I do need to get a twat radar. This is not an isolated incident. It may be the first time I have been had by a man, but there's a pattern with friends that is similar. I have been lkg at that since summer.

Re agreeing to marry him, a lot of that was down to how I thought he was. I found him to be clever and kind (things he would write about news stories told me this.) I found him reliable, always there, emailing me all the time. A lot of what went down made complete sense to me.

What I always hated and used to send regular worried emails about, was the drinking and WHY he couldn't get a job.

But in the middle of that, he was getting treatment for two 2cm kidney stones. Being out of work for a yr, he qual'd for medicare in the US, but the appts were so long in between. As time went on it made sense for him to not seek paid work in case he lost the medicare. He had trouble moving around as it was.

I hated withdrawing such a huge amount of money, the likes of which I never usually handled, and sending it across to him. I resented it. But I felt I was lkg after him and he needed help and I thought he would pay it back someday or even if not, we were getting married by then and I didn't care. I just cared about him getting out of the mess.

The issues with other women wer not a factor even in the slightest. If anything that is one area where my twat radar never ever went off.

That said he used to use bad language about women, in an 'I don't know the score' kind of way. He didn't see anything bad in saying gay, the n word, whore etc. I thought I had made it clear that that wasn't OK with me, but it carried on, and when I broke up with him I told him that was one of the reasons I was going. I saw a comment on here which said, Don't try and tell him, just show him. Leave.'

He sounds really, really awful.

What a shame that the proverbial straw was the infidelity.

Love, the red flags should have been waving a very long time before that ..

I agreed to marry him I suppose becxause I felt we knew each other so well and I had such respect for him. He wouldn't go to parties because he had nothing to bring and didn't want people to have to pick him up.

Also he didn't brag about his past business that he ran. Occasionally something would come out from his friend or in a photo he showed me or a story about a cruise he won where he chased someone who'd stolen a lady's handbag.

I got the impression of a man from Hollywood with drug taking parents who grew up in homes but who had tried to do good and had worked and built himself up to all that. Photos of houses he';d rented in Las Vegas whebn he was doing really well. But he never got a home together for himself. He would always run to women cos they had kids and he liked being part of a family. I beolieve this sens of belonging is very powerful in people and I heard that in him.

So we made this romantic plan to be together. We had it all planned out. He took me to the place in California that he's always wanted to live and asked me if I could see myself living there.

When he asked me to marry him, he would sound so soft and loving down the phone as I read from websites about our wedding ring shapes and the ring! The actual ring! Which I have never mentioned in front of a man ever!

I would get dreams about him, I woke up knowing it was his mothers bday once and it was. He visited me in his dreams as a drunk lying on the ground clutching his stomach saying 'See? I told you!' I knew I could have the marriage with him, but I would have to manage everything.

I have always had dreams like this and I was afraid this was true and it seems it has turned out to be.

I met his parents in my dream. I had a dream about a snake which is sexual healing, and that was part of what we experienced too. He was a much freer spirit than me.

Sorry to be blunt but he's played you for a fool, whether deliberately or due to his own issues (alcoholism, lack of commitment, lies, two-timing) and it never was a real relationship. Please try to move on and stop questioning his motives, you will probably never know the truth. don't focus your firstration on the (ex?)gf , he probably spun her a yarn too. Stop contacting him as well, nothing positive will come of it. Agree though maybe you need help to draw the line and deal with assertiveness and self-confidence, especially if it is a pattern.

christ on a bike

Are you sure you have learned any lessons from this ?

I fear for you, really I do

You sound as nuts as he does, to be honest.

Seriously how do you know anything he has ever told you is true? YOu dont he lives the other side of the world and can have a whole different life to the one he protrays to you.