"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families.

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It's November 2011, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

Baby steps. I'd like to start this post with a and a little bit about me.
I have two DS's one age 11 from a previous relationship and one aged 2 from my current marriage I also have twin step sons who are 16. My DH is a lot older than me and used to be my lecturer and I'm sure that there is a whole lot of psychology in that but we are very happy together. He is a very kind, considerate, patient and generous man. Every relationship has some problems and our problems are often down to my inability to communicate.
Recently I have felt that DH has been angry a lot with DS1 and this has upset me a lot but I have been unable to raise the subject with DH because of my fear of confrontation.
The big thing is that last night I managed to have a long discussion with DH about his anger towards DS1 and the conversation was initiated by me. Admittedly I had to do it in the dark but I managed to remain calm (I generally don't get angry but I do get very emotional) and make my points clearly and stick by them. I think one of the most important things was that I was able to point out that I thought DH behaviour was unacceptable because he was blaming DS and refusing to admit that the problem might be with him not DS who is just a child. I was even able to make suggestions as to how he could handle situations more constructively without resorting to anger and derision. DH has a tendency to ask for specific examples of behaviour which I find difficult as I do not store up instances in order to use them later but I managed to deflect this and all in all I'm feeling very pleased with myself today :) and its all thanks to you good ladies so thanks!

Good for you for beign able to express how you feel, WWW.

What are your benchmarks for determining whether DH is putting in place the changes you require?

As I said last night my parents were not violent physically and I have never been sexually abused. My childhood was psychologically abusive and on the whole very lonely despite the fact that I now have 9 younger brothers and sisters (halves and wholes).
I have never been allowed an opinion by either parent; my Mum always snapped at me to not answer back/ don't be cheeky/ selfish/ a bitch, my Dad would not talk because he did not want to acknowledge my sadness or that he had any responsibility for it. My Dad tried to save me from it by taking me with him when he left my Mum for my step mother but I was 6 and he couldn't cope so I was put into boarding school while they sorted things out.
My brothers were left with my Mum who neglected them so that she could pursue various love affairs. My step mother didn't like me any more than my mother did. And my parents hated each other and never stopped letting me know about it. My earliest memories are of my parents having awful rows about me, my Mum screaming that she couldn't stand me/my behaviour and my dad quietly trying to defend me, he always took me to work with him so that I didn't have to stay at home with her and I grew up quietly watching my dad work.
I have to say that I was probably a difficult child to love. I was very withdrawn, quiet and sullen. I never smiled I refused to engage in most family life and generally lived with the dog.

OK I can't write any more. its too much sorry

Benchmarks? I don't know...I'll watch and see? I'm sorry I'm not much good at this, how do I set benchmarks?

Re: benchmarks. Just examine yourself, your feelings and your needs: what to you need to see from him in order to feel safe, secure, and respected? What specific actions, how often?

A little bit of effort isn't good enough for you if it doesn't respond to what you need in order to feel happy. This will be different for every person, and your DH may argue that whatever he's doing "should" be good enough. It's only "good enough" if it's good enough for how you feel deep inside.

I have to say that I was probably a difficult child to love.

No, you weren't love. The fact that they treated you with neglect and contempt does NOT mean that you were worthy of neglect and contempt.

You deserved to be loved, supported and cherished, like all children do. You did not receive the love and support you deserved from the adults in your life whose responsibility it was to nurture you. They failed. Not you.

Thanks Puppy
I'll think about it.
At the moment its more about his relationship with DS that is worrying me. What I want is for DH to be constructive with DS and patient.

I have to admit that I'm very proud of DS as he is spirited and feisty were I was shy and sullen.

DH feels that DS should never lie but I'm more lenient as I don't see it as lying more saying what he thinks we want to hear.

I feel very protective of DS as I don't want him to feel as I did as a child but actually as I write this I realise that he doesn't; he is allowed to express himself and encouraged to have opinions even if they are not always acted on. DS feels confident and able to stand up for himself and he always has done, for this I should feel proud - I've not done too bad a job so far :) - I just need to tackle DH anger.

Another problem that arises is that I tend to take everything DH says personally and deeply to heart. Its not appropriate as most of the time he is just letting off steam as he has had a bad day at work/is in pain. He actually very rarely directs any anger at me or DS, he is just angry. But I take it personally. He is not angry all of the time, I'm making it sound bad as I'm focussing on this one negative in our, otherwise, functional relationship. That and my difficulty with communication.

Another problem that arises is that I tend to take everything DH says personally and deeply to heart.

That's the kind of thing I was talking about above: you are entitled to feel upset by his anger, if it affects you emotionally. You have a right to your feelings. They are yours and yours alone: no-one can tell you that you are "too sensitive", for example. You are sensitive as you are.

Of course, then it is for you to judge whether you want to work on changing yourself, or whether you want to ask him to express his anger differently or elsewhere if you know it's going to continue to make you jittery (and then accept that he is entitled to say no).

I just need to tackle DH anger.

He is the only one who can tackle his anger. IF he wants to.

I agree that it is not the childs fault if the parents do not love them. It cannot be the childs fault that they get in the way of their parents dreams/ fantasies about life and it is never the babies fault if the mother fails to bond. I probably was not born sullen/quiet and withdrawn - those behaviours were my defence mechanisms against an onslaught of abuse and neglect. But I'm an adult now and it turns out that I'm not as stupid, selfish and lazy as I was led to believe the problem is that I keep returning to that childs behaviour when faced with any confrontation with loved ones.
Last night I took my first small step in RL to try to correct this behaviour.

But I'm an adult now and it turns out that I'm not as stupid, selfish and lazy as I was led to believe

Indeed you are not! Other people's opinion of you is just that: their opinion.

the problem is that I keep returning to that childs behaviour when faced with any confrontation with loved ones.

That's hardly surprising: it's what you were conditioned to do. No need to beat yourself up about it. The good news is that learned behaviour can be unlearned.

Last night I took my first small step in RL to try to correct this behaviour.

See? You're getting there already!

Thanks
What I didn't say is that I had to go off and have a bit of a cry afterwards
Baby steps
I don't need to change DH behaviour towards me, its actually not my problem. Its just so hard to see that at the time.
I do need him to think about his behaviour towards DS and start to consider that it may be something to do with him and not DS that is the problem. This I will continue to work on or I will regret it forever.

I don't need to change DH behaviour towards me, its actually not my problem.

I'm not saying you should stop worrying about how his behaviour makes you feel at all! It is your problem if it makes you feel bad. But his behaviour is not within your control, only within his. That's what I was getting at. Up to him to take your feelings on board about how he makes you and DS feel, or not. And up to you to decide whether his behaviour is acceptable to you.

Hmm... I think that the problem may be with my misinterpretation of his comments - I will always take the negative interpretation but if I stop and think with a clear head, or he takes time to explain to me then I can see that there is a positive way to interpret also.

His behaviour can be very distressing to me but in actual fact his behaviour is normal. I know this from observations of other couples where discussions can be lively and even heated but remain a simple exchange of views between two people who love each other.

It may sound daft but I long to be able to have a simple pointless argument just because I can or because I want to let off some steam.

I suspect that DH sometimes is just trying to provoke me into a normal argument.

I hope I'm not making our relationship sound completely dysfunctional. I'm not trying to defend him (he doesn't need it he is well able to defend himself, and me) I'm simply trying to understand me.

I have never had therapy, I have only considered it for the first time last summer when my relationship with my parents became so bad that I think I may have become depressed for a while. But I couldn't bear to raise the subject with DH as when he first suggested it several years ago I shot him down so forcefully he has never dared raise the subject again.
I also have no idea where to turn if I did want therapy as I'm pretty sure I'm not going to get it through the NHS and I'm not inclined to hand my head over to any random person on the internet...ooops!

I really do appreciate this, BTW

A propos something totally different, just wanted to record that I just had a "I'm leaving this relationship because this is how I feel about it" conversation with my mother in my head, where for the first time ever, I called her by her first name. Felt a little strange and transgressive, and then good.

I think it must have popped into my head because I am readjusting to (thinking of) relating to her adult-to-adult, which is a goal I would like to reach.

And to WWW : what makes you think you couldn't get counselling on the NHS? Does the idea of counselling still make you want to shut that thought out?

at random person on the internet.

An adult to adult relationship with parents is a sensible goal. Maybe its inappropriately personal but my cousin has always called her parents by their first names and theirs has been an extremely dysfunctional and difficult relationship. I think it was because my aunt wanted to treat her children as equals but that meant she never treated the kids as children.
Their relationship is still difficult but I think it is very equal now which is a long way from my relationship with my mother (they are sisters). I have always called my Dad by his first name, I don't know why all of his second family call him Dad.
On reflection I really like the idea of calling my mother by her first name!

I only have second hand experience with the NHS and therapy but it all points to the GP simply prescribing antidepressants. I don't think that I'm depressed (though I do realise that all the crying is a dead cert for depression) and I'm not suicidal so I doubt that I would qualify for help. I also don't really want to discuss any of this with my GP.

You would definitely get counselling on the NHS Waily (or shall I call you WWW?!) I don't think you would have to go into all the details with your GP- just that it is affecting your relationship now.

I'm certain you were a very loveable child- no child is unloveable. Maybe you were withdrawn etc, but that was because of how your parents treated you, that is not who you are.

You did so well to bring up your issues with your DH, it's a good step in the right direction.

I am still mulling over my issues- didn't realise I would feel like I was going to break down last night. I just couldn't stop crying. When I read what you all thought of the situation it really knocked me sideways.

I am going to try and speak to my brothers in the next few days, and make it clear that they are welcome at my house whenever they want to come. I am still pretty sure they are not being physically punished in the way that I was, but I want to check with them. I think as well it's the emotional side of things- I want to provide a bit of warmth and encouragement to them.

My Mum hated it when I was loving to my brothers when they were babies. Maybe it highlighted something she was lacking, that I could lavish love onto a baby? I don't know. One thing she said to me when eldest bro was little was "I hate how you are with DBro. So soppy. And you're always trying to teach him stuff!" It's a bit strange isn't it, that she hated me teaching him anything or reading books with him?

I've had a massive talk with my H this afternoon while kids were at school and he is being very supportive.

Feel like my head might explode. Thanks again for all your support and quick replies last night.

Yes, very strange that a mother should resist someone (and another family member at that!) showing love and guidance to her young child.

It sounds like it could be her own insecurities about her capacity to provide love and guidance talking? The fact that she ripped into you, her own child, about is also awful.

It was as if she didn't like the fact that I was mothering them. She did everything for them- fed/ washed/ clothed etc but I played and cuddled and taught songs etc. Maybe because she never had that in her childhood it felt uncomfortable- I was doing for my siblings some of the things I wished someone had done for me.

I'm really scared right now. There's a part of my mind that wants to carry on pretending everything is fine, but I know it isn't. It felt almost cataclysmic yesterday when I read that you would all consider it abuse and that I have a toxic family, even though I already knew it, I was denying it and defending it (Rambling sorry).

I feel stuck as well and unsure as to what the next steps are.

I want to be around for my siblings, but I want some distance from my Mum. I could never have a confrontation with her about it, as she would never admit it or say sorry, so it wouldn't achieve anything. I wouldn't confront SD either.

This is hard stuff

I have a question. I told my mother I want nothing to do with her and not to contact me but through DP and only to find out when she can come to see DD. Obviously she hasn't stuck to this. She has texted me telling me she's coming round on 13th. This isn't in our agreement (or should I say the rules I dictated) and have a mind to reply and say 1) she's not coming on 13th but following weekend, 2) she needs to stop pestering me because I'm not going to reply, and 3) she can just fuck off

But I know if I text her back, she'll see it as "oh she texted me now so she'll text me again if I keep pushing her" so I'm not going to give her the satisfaction. So that leaves me 2 options, to either write it down in a letter and try and keep it as polite as I can, or ask my DP to speak to her, which he would be happy to, but just curious to know what you think?

Just feeling extremely frustrated with her. Her and the whole family. It's like me and DP are discussing marriage, and I have always wanted to drop my surname because I feel like it would make me a bit more free. But my surname is very unusual and I love it, but I just hate what it associates me to. DP's surname is very common and I have quite a common first name, so I feel like I'll just blend in iykwim. Feel less special even. I know that's absolute rubbish, and I dunno why I'm saying this, but it's something that's been on my mind a little bit.