"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families.

[garlicBread]

It's November 2011, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

[gobbycow]

I used to find it hard not to roll my eyes when she came in for her encores!

I turned round to her after she hit me once and looked her right in the eye...and said very calmly, " so quite what did that achieve then?" I don't think I've ever seen anyone quite so "mad". Gulp.

[Bear1984]

Wow gobbycow! Wish I could have done that. Although I remember when I was 13, my mum was mocking me after I had told my sister how my guinea pig had looked after he died because she asked (although I refused twice but then gave in) and then she used this as an excuse not to eat her dinner even though she hadn't even seen him! So yes my mum came to yell at me for doing such a thing, mocked me because I was silent and had my arms crossed, and then made jokes about me to my sister... I then retaliated by pushing her, she fell onto my bed, and I ran for the door as I was going to get out the house and never return. However, she had gotten back up, grabbed me by my pony tail and dragged me back. I remember her being so outraged, but it was the first time that I was so proud of myself for standing up for myself. She never hit me after that.

But back to the present, she has been pestering me over and over. I'm about ready to push her again if I see her! She just ignores the fact that I told her I don't want anything to do with her, and that to arrange contact it should be done by DP. So if she chooses to ignore that, I'll ignore her!!

(rant over)

[PhishFoodAddiction]

I'm really sorry to just butt in here, but can anyone help me?

I've posted before a little bit.

Anyway, today I was at counselling (relate) talking about my family, and I told the counsellor that my step-dad would whack/kick/smack me when I was little. She was horrified and asked if my still-at-home siblings were at risk of this. I'm sure he doesn't hurt them.

I feel awful. I must have been a bit over-dramatic when I was explaining. She looked genuinely aghast.

Step-dad would just just get very cross and lash out physically. For instance, once I was laying on the floor on my tummy, with my legs bent up behind me and was waving my legs. He told me to stop and I didn't, so he kicked me in the leg. It wasn't that hard but left a bruise. Once I leant against a jacket that he'd left on the back of a chair, and he hit me across the arm. My mum would smack as well, I thought it was just 'discipline'.

I think I've made it sound worse than it was.

I wish I hadn't said anything now, am scared that the counsellor will want to try and involve SS or something. Believe me, if I thought he was still hitting/ kicking/ lashing out then I would say something but he seems to have 'mellowed' a bit since my time (big age gaps between me and sibs).

Feel like I've said the wrong thing and overplayed it somehow because although I can see that it was a bit wrong, it wasn't exactly child abuse.

Sorry, it's a bit rambly and incoherent, am a bit upset.

[Bear1984]

Phish, IMO, if he kicked you enough to leave a bruise, then it's not just "discipline". And to be kicking in the first place raises alarm to me. To me, it is still abuse. Don't feel that you must have been overdramatic, because you were being honest about what has happened and how you felt about what has happened. To me, it feels like you're almost "trained" to believe that the way you were treated wasn't that bad, but in reality, it's a form of abuse. That's just my thoughts on it. How old are your siblings?

When I was younger my mum did abuse me, hitting, pushing, smacking, pulling hair. She never did it to my siblings though, which always led me to believe maybe there was just a problem with me. So I did always think maybe she wouldn't be that way with DD. However, and although she never has, now that I've come to realise what my mother is actually like in recent years, I wonder how I ever trusted her with DD in the first place. I now don't, because although she's never done anything physically, she started to poison my DD's mind.

[garlicBread]

No, sweetheart, it was abuse. Families teach their members to 'normalise' these things. You end up thinking everybody does it. But they don't.

I'm sorry; I remember my shock when it first started sinking in. What ages are your sibs?

[gobbycow]

I have had wine.......disclaimer.


Phish.

No. You are not over dramatic. Your counsellor is right. It is horrifying.

The problem for us is that it became normal. It is what we know, it is the ONLY thing that we know.

You have NOT overplayed anything. It is as "worse" as it sounds! Yes it is child abuse..More than a "bit wrong". That's why she looked aghast!

You have every right to be upset.

And you are not incoherent or rambly.

[PhishFoodAddiction]

Thanks for replies- I feel sick and really tearful. I know it wasn't 'normal' as such but didn't think it was so bad. I thought all kids were smacked in those days (I'm late 20s).

I have 2 sibs still at home 14 and 9. I love them so much. I don't know if they get a smack (ie a slap across the backside) now and again, but I know step-Dad doesn't lash out in the same way. He seems a bit more able to control himself now.

Also when I got to an age where I could stand up for myself, he stopped hitting me. Around 12- 13 I think but my memory is useless.

It's like I have to defend them somehow. My H was so angry when I told him some of the things I was hit for, angry with them I mean, and then I felt like I had to explain/ defend them so he didn't think badly of them .

My head is mess just now. I keep trying to shut this stuff out and it just keeps coming back. I don't how long it will take until I feel 'sorted'.

[Bear1984]

Phish, you sound an awful lot like me! Late 20s, stood up for myself at 13 and stopped getting hit.

It does take time to see it in a different light. Counselling really helped me, and I'm starting it again on Tuesday (hooray!!) and there will be times where you will feel terrible when you go through the shock of seeing that what you went through is wrong, and then going through feeling upset and confused. But talking to your counsellor will help, and you have us. And it sounds like your DH is supportive, which I have found tremendously helpful with my DP.

Hugs

[ItsMeAndMyPuppyNow]

I know step-Dad doesn't lash out in the same way. He seems a bit more able to control himself now.

Could this be wishful thinking on your part? If that behaviour has worked for him in the past, there is no reason to think he will have changed.

[garlicBread]

It is a horrible feeling :( My sympathies.

I think you remember those incidents because you recognised them as unfair, even when you were a child who believed your parents had the right to assault you. They didn't have that right at all.

What would you think of someone who physically attacked you fro doing something against their rules now, as an adult? Say you picked up too many items to take to the changing room in a shop, which clearly said "Maximum 3 items at a time" and the assistant smacked you one across the face?

If it's not okay for a stranger to hit an adult, how is it better for an adult to hit a child who loves them?

This is probably why the issue keeps bugging you ... it's a matter of recognising this massive unfairness for the abuse it was.

I'd suggest calling one of the child abuse charities to talk about your younger sibs. I am really not sure if they would do anything but, in fact, a visit from SS might do your parents a bit of good.

[PhishFoodAddiction]

Thanks Bear, my H has been great and counselling is helping (have had a few sessions before). It just seems to hit me anew every time.

Puppy- I guess it could be wishful thinking. I have been there when he's got cross and he hasn't hit them. He's told them to go upstairs or he's gone into another room. This is what makes me thinks he is a bit more controlled now.

[garlicBread]

The obvious thing is to ask them if your parents hit them.

[WailyWailyWaily]

Phish. I'm a bit new so may not be much good at this but I think that you are not being over dramatic, smacking and kicking children is not OK.

[PhishFoodAddiction]

Yes, I will ask them. The younger one will open up to me, even lets me give him cuddles sometimes. The older one is in a grunt rather than talk phase but I will try. Maybe I should be trying a bit more to have them at my house so they know they have someone who will listen.

Older sib realises that I am a bit different in that I don't smack my children (well apart from one hideous time when I tapped the back of their hands and never again).

Yes to the unfairness. Of course, as an adult if someone hit you for a minor rule break you'd be furious.

I must say though that I also have a sister (between me and the ones at home) and she has turned out fine! She doesn't really seem to have any emotional baggage.

It was a fairly normal home, just with short tempers and not much demonstrating of love. We had everything we could want materially, just not emotionally. Maybe it was partly down to my character as well that I needed more than they could give? Am probably rambling now.

[PhishFoodAddiction]

Can I just clear this up- a smack on the bum for doing something wrong is not abuse is it? That is discipline, albeit a sort that I won't use?

[ItsMeAndMyPuppyNow]

Maybe it was partly down to my character as well that I needed more than they could give?

And so? Even if that were the case, you are allowed to have your own feelings, your own sensitivities. If your home environment felt hurtful and neglectful to you, then it was hurtful and neglectful for you. You have a right to have your feelings. Saying "when mum did x, I felt y" is not blaming anyone - either you or the parent. It is stating how you felt about a particular event.

Having said that, the behaviour you describe from your SD is most definitely unacceptable.

[garlicBread]

Being abused can never be your fault, Phish. You didn't make them hit you.
They do it because they can.

I doubt that he's 'mellowed', tbh. You don't need to be at peak fitness to assault a child. My mother's told me Dad hit their grandchildren as toddlers No-one else saw, he made sure of that.

I have told my nephews repeatedly (in front of their parents) that it's never okay to be hit or insulted. It's a pathetically small gesture, but I hope it's helped. If it hadn't taken me so long to start recovering, I would have made a lot more fuss about it - as it is, I called SS once and they gave my sibling and partner a talking-to. It stopped them for a while.

This sib has never questioned the violence in their family, except to complain about it in the same way as children do. That's what denial about one's own childhood does. :( :(

[garlicBread]

Phish - when I was growing up, corporal punishment was still accepted in schools. There were strict rules, nonetheless (which some staff gleefully ignored). If you knew what you had done wrong, what level of 'crime' it was, YOU considered the punishment appropriate to the crime and it didn't damage you - it was wrong, but probably normal for the times.

There were lots of parents who never hit their children.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Hi Phish,

Re your comment:-

"It was a fairly normal home, just with short tempers and not much demonstrating of love. We had everything we could want materially, just not emotionally. Maybe it was partly down to my character as well that I needed more than they could give?".

No, does not sound at all normal to me. To my mind your childhood home was the hallmark of a dysfunctional and emotionally unhealthy home. Your mother married someone who has proved himself to be violent and she went along with it for reasons known only to her. She failed to protect you from him and colluded in the violence as well. They are both toxic parents through and through. Both are as bad as one another and blamed you for their own inadequecies.

Its absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with your character; these two abused you and failed you abjectly in the role of mother and stepfather.

There can be no justification for the violence meted out to you. It was not your fault that this happened.

Unless you fully confront what they did, it will keep coming back to haunt you.

[WailyWailyWaily]

My parents never hit me or my siblings, thankfully

[PhishFoodAddiction]

Oh Attila

I don't want to believe it's true, I mean, it's my Mum. And they truly think they love me. I think we are all in denial.

It feels like 1 step forward then 5 steps back trying to get my head around all this.

Thank you so much for all your replies. I need to face up to this before it ruins the rest of my life, and my DDs too, don't I?

[PhishFoodAddiction]

Sorry Waily, I keep cross-posting with you!

[PhishFoodAddiction]

Bedtime now, if I can stop crying. Will be back tomorrow night. Thanks again for taking the time to reply.

[ItsMeAndMyPuppyNow]

'night Phish.
x

[WailyWailyWaily]

No problem Phish, takes me ages to read posts and put in my reply