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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

ExH Access to Children .. Please can I have some advice?

81 replies

WarriorQueen · 01/11/2011 10:16

Hi
I was a regular on this board just over 18 months ago - some of you may remember me.

exH had an affair and left me and our 2 young sons (who are now 3 and 5)

We are now divorced and he sees the children every other weekend (although he sometimes cancels if he has other things to do like holidays - he has been on 4 so far in the last 12 months/weddings/parties/weekends away)

I have a new partner and I am moving in with him in a couple of weeks. Our new home will be about 1hr 30 mins drive from exH.

ExH wants me to do all of the driving.... ie pick teh kids up from school on the friday afternoon and drive them to him (1.5 hours then turn round do the same back to my new home) and then he wants me to pick them up on the sunday and do the 3 hour round trip again - this journey time is assuming that there won't be any traffic.

His reasoning for this is that I am taking his boys away from him and therefore I should bare the brunt of the inconvenience. He also says that if I have custody then I should be the one to suffer in terms of sacrificing moving away and staying near to him so that he can see his boys (he does not want me to move away)

To me this seems very unfair, I have been very flexible in letting him see his kids, even swapping weekends and cancelling my plans so that he coudl see them if he had arranged a social event that meant he coudl not keep to his original weekend.

he has a very good job and can afford the petrol.

I have suggested that I take them to him on the fri (full trip) but he does the full trip on the sun when he brings them back.
His reply was
"that is not happening"

He has been very verbally abusive to me in the past so much so taht I had to tell my solicitor. he has also threatened to make my life hell and other similar things. The next day he will phone me up crying saying that he gets angry as he cant lose his boys as they are all he has.

If anyone here has ever been in a similar situation I would appreciate your advice, or anyone's perspective on it for that matter.

Thank you

OP posts:
MrGin · 02/11/2011 17:28

It's possible that a court case might result ( as prh47bridge says ) in longer less frequent visits which would be less of a tax on your finances.

CardyMow · 02/11/2011 17:34

prh47bridge - not wanting to derail the thread, but what you said here 'It is possible he could get a prohibited steps order to stop you moving but such orders are rare where the parent is moving within the UK. They have generally only been granted where it is clear that the move is purely intended to frustrate contact.' ISN'T necessarily true. My Ex-H has a VERY prescriptive Prohibited Steps order barring me from moving ESTATES within my town, let alone outside my town. And it was nothing to do with me blocking access, and everything to do with the fact that neither of us can drive, and I am not allowed to move DS1's school, due to mid-week contact, and as I don't drive, I can only live within this estate as it is the only way I can get DS1 to the same school by public transport. Ex-H is and was a controlling git, and managed to hoodwink the courtroom, and now that he HAS the Prohibited Steps order, it is almost impossible to get it overturned, even though CAFCASS can SEE that I am not trying to frustrate access.

Original poster
WarriorQueen · 02/11/2011 17:38

huntycat - would you be able to overturn that if either of you learnt to drive though?

OP posts:
Patienceobtainsallthings · 02/11/2011 18:00

What is ur sols opinion wq ?

prh47bridge · 02/11/2011 18:02

HuntyCat - I said said they have "generally" only been granted in the circumstances I described. I didn't say they have "only ever" been granted in those circumstances. However, I am unclear as to what your order actually says. Are you saying that the order stops you from changing your son's school and that, as a result, you can't move? Or does the order specifically stop you from moving?

And to answer the OP's question, my guess is that the order could be varied if either you or your ex learnt to drive and got a car.

WarriorQueen - Believe me, I understand exactly how you feel. However, the fact that he had an affair and moved out are irrelevant as far as the courts are concerned. They matter a lot to you, of course, but the court simply won't take those things into account.

As I said, whilst there is a chance he could get a PSO to stop you from moving I think it is highly unlikely. Unless there is an important factor that hasn't emerged on this thread my rating of his chances would probably include the words "snowball" and "hell".

As for the costs of contact, remember I said that the starting point would be that you should pay as you were the one moving but that wouldn't necessarily be the outcome. If he is much better off than you that is something the court would take into consideration and your work arrangements may also be a consideration. However, on the other side you should remember that he may be able to get the CSA to reduce his maintenance payments due to the costs involved in contact.

In your situation I would think seriously about whether longer, less frequent visits might solve some of the problems and be better for your sons.

Teaandcakeplease · 02/11/2011 18:09

Warrior stop panicking reread what you wrote at 16.46 again. All will be fine. Honestly. Let him chew it over and leave him to it. Have a big glass of wine tonight and talk to us girls on fb x

Original poster
WarriorQueen · 02/11/2011 18:38

I do have a tendency to obsess .... which he knows.... so this silence he knows will be driving me round the bend.

We are due to move in 8 days.... the school have a place and start date for ds1, I have started to buy his uniform.

i have given the notice to my landlords now where i live, and they showed the new tenants round today.

Exh knows all of this too.

practically speaking could exh really get a PHO in such a short time ?

OP posts:
Patienceobtainsallthings · 02/11/2011 20:11

How do you do longer visits during term time ? Do you mean less weekends more school hols,does that mean x uses annual leave for childcare?

Teaandcakeplease · 02/11/2011 20:14

He is probably doing this as a mind game. Honestly. Stop googling. Grab a glass of wine and watch some telly, how about a good film? Also find the rescue remedy Wink

He wanted to bully you into doing all the driving that's all. He may even move to be closer to you. It'll all turn out alright in the end, you'll see! You will find a compromise.

Teaandcakeplease · 02/11/2011 20:24

You know reading your post at 16.46 again, it does sound like when the reality that you were really moving set in and he started to think about it some more he decided to suggest bully you did all the driving, but even if it takes you a while to find the best way to do things on contact you will find a way. Have an unmumsnetty ((hug))

Original poster
WarriorQueen · 02/11/2011 20:48

thanks tea. he has been trying to persuade me that my new dp will cheat on me/leave me/ etc and that i will be left alone again. he is trying every tactic to get me to not go.

OP posts:
Teaandcakeplease · 02/11/2011 20:54

Charming. Angry

Smum99 · 02/11/2011 21:05

Courts don't care about the cause of the marriage breakup as divorce is based on a "no fault" system however I can understand how awful it is for you.

The likelyhood is that your ex has realised the consequences of the move and as you said you understand why he might feel aggrieved as the journey is a barrier to contact. An agreement is the best way forward and if necessary this should then be written up by a court to formalise the process.
Make reasonable proposals (and shared driving and additional contact would be seen as reasonable)

If this went to court a judge would assess the circumstances of both parents but ultimately they are seeking to act in the children's best interests and arriving at dad's late and tired after a long week at school isn't the best start to the access weekend. A change to the schedule maybe more appropriate as the dc's are so young. Could you meet you ex half way on the Friday so that the traffic is reduced?

I really don't think you should worry about custody as if your ex went to court and expressed concern about your new partner or the stablity of the relationship (given that it is a reasonably new relationship) a judge would order a CAFCASS report to assess the situation. Courts still try to maintain the status quo with dc's domestic arrangements so doubt a change would be imposed unless there were real concerns about your new partner.I do hope it works out for you and importantly your DCs as it does seem to be moving very quickly. Is there a reason why you are rushing the move?

However as others have posted - look to negotiate, offer mediation and ensure all offers are in writting, maybe post a letter (rather an email) and get signed delivery.

Patienceobtainsallthings · 02/11/2011 21:09

Its none of his business,he has no right to discuss ur new relationship.

bellsring · 02/11/2011 21:10

What a cheek! Him, of all people, saying stuff like that to you.

If he was difficult when you were with him, he will continue to be difficult. He hasn't changed his personality.

Patienceobtainsallthings · 02/11/2011 21:17

X post,i understand he has a right to talk to his sol if he thinks his kids r in danger .anything else is none of his business.He needs to concentrate on his kids.

Original poster
WarriorQueen · 02/11/2011 21:25

I dont really think I am rushing it. I have been in a relationship with dp for a year now.

At the moment the dcs and i are spending the weekends that ex does not have the dcs at my dps house, my dcs have a fantastic bond with dp and are very excited about the move. (not mentioned before but i have known my dp for 10 years) it makes sense for me to be with him.

we had planned to move in jan but the area we are moving to has very heavily subscribed schools and i was advised by the council to take a place as soon as it was offered. I told my ex this and he was in agreement as he understood the importance of the right school.

OP posts:
Original poster
WarriorQueen · 02/11/2011 21:26

i think the thing that gets me is that he could stop me from living my life yet has total freedom to live his.

OP posts:
flippinada · 02/11/2011 21:41

I remember your last thread as well WQ.

It seems very clear to me that your ex is playing mind games.

His threat about taking you to court for custody (although in fact they call it residence now) is absolute nonsense, although I completely understand why you are upset about it. I can tell you there is no way on gods green earth that he is going to get residence...he just won't! This is leaving aside his behaviour (affair etc). Plus, if it comes to it, you have evidence of his unreasonableness )all the emails).

My ex sounds very much like yours. A lot of it is about bullying and control but then you already know that I expect.

flippinada · 02/11/2011 21:43

Actually, he can't WQ...he just has you thinking he can.

It will be ok, honest :).

xyz2011 · 02/11/2011 21:54

Warriorqueen...you won't lose your kids, he is wanting you to think that...my exh is a total pita...he threatened to take our son off me and get custody...they bully coz they want control...a solicitors letter should do the trick..i think a compromise is in order...good luck x

prh47bridge · 02/11/2011 23:40

It is possible to get a PSO quickly if the court thinks it is necessary. However, I would still use the words "snowball" and "hell" in my assessment of his chances of stopping you from moving. I don't rate his chances of getting residence either.

As you have children together you both have a measure of control over each other. For example, neither of you can take the children out of the country, even for a holiday, without the consent of the other. He cannot stop you from living your life but he can make sure that he has a say in important decisions affecting your children and he can also make sure that they continue to see him regularly. I accept that can be a pain for the parent with care.

Your move is going to make contact harder. His approach to dealing with this situation is not good but a solution is needed. As I've already said, I would try to come to some kind of agreement with him, possibly including longer but less frequent visits and possibly with you taking more than half the travelling and extra costs, but not necessarily all of it.

I really hope you manage to get this sorted out quickly. Good luck.

Original poster
WarriorQueen · 03/11/2011 09:13

I have still not heard from him. The last email I sent him set out a couple of solutions in which we both shared the journeys 50/50 that was 3 ago now.

OP posts:
windsorTides · 03/11/2011 10:33

This dick really knows which buttons to press with you, doesn't he? I bet he used the silent tactic in your marriage too.

Stand firm and don't make any more concessions now, or contact him again. You have been entirely reasonable and very sensible to keep an audit trail of your communications about this. Don't let him bully you. If you refuse to play what sounds like a familiar game, you will realise how far you have come.

wiseoldowl · 03/11/2011 11:18

Hi Warrior Queen,
no personal experience of this but a friend of mine has to do a 6 hour round trip to spend time with his daughters. They had a court agreement to meet 1/2 way which his XW then refused to continue after doing it once. He pays her less maintenance because of the costs he incurs but he said it took so long & took such a fight that it seems like even if you go against the rules nobody enforces them! He only sticks with it because he's so lovely & desparate to see his kids.

Be strong & refuse - if your XH wants to see them he does the travelling. Simple as.