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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Please advise, marriage break up, it's like a soap opera and I don't know what to do next - sorry this is really long

67 replies

BeattieBow · 27/10/2011 10:39

If you realise who I am please don't out me.

My life has become like an episode of eastenders and I am really struggling with what to do next.

Sorry this is long

I have been with dh since I was 18. married now for 12 years (I'm 41). we have 5 children. Marriage was ok I would say. We would have always said we were soul mates, but there were issues for a long time. These revolved around dh being obsessed with work, although he was the one that said I had the problems with it not him. He has always been a workaholic and it did cause problems - him not phoning to say when he was coming back, working late, never being home to pick up the children, getting very stressed about it. He didn't take paternity leave with any of the children (too busy), wouldn't take all of his holidays, and would be tied to the blackberry all the time.

His other problem was/is his severe lack of organisation. He would frequently forget to pay bills. This caused me huge stress as it meant we would get bailliffs turning up, he has a bad credit record, and most recently nearly got made bankrupt over failing to pay his tax. It was very stressful. This also showed itself in the fact he got or nearly got the sack from work several times over the last 20 years by being so bad with admin. In his line of work (lawyer) it was critical that he didn't miss deadlines, but he often did. After the first sacking he promised he would get help over this, but didn't.

He was always a lovely guy though. I knew he loved me, would always put the children first. He was caring, funny and loving. He loved being a father and was extremely hands on. This has changed dramatically over the last few months.

I can't put all of our history in here, but the last few months have been tough: In feb 2010 I had a very traumatic miscarriage. I was bluelighted to hospital, had the foetus wrenched out of me with forceps. Lost loads of blood and became very anaemic. it was awful and I struggled for a long time afterwards. He was little support, going back to work on day 2, being on the phone in the hospital etc. I found the next few months very difficult, was probably depressed, and probably got a bit obssessed with ttc. We had a very difficult time and I would say we were both depressed - he was unsupportive of me and looking back there were incidents where he was extremely horrible to me. I thought we both thought that it was a horrible time but that we would get through it.

This year in April, we were thinking about moving back to London as I was working there. dh then was sacked from his job and could only find another job in London. We speeded up the move to London as we could see little choice. I began to have severe misgivings about it, but he assured me that it was the best thing, and we could give it a go for a year or so. I have left friends, family and a house in the town we lived in.

Due to the nightmare of applying for schools etc, we ended up moving at different times. I moved up first, him and the children a few weeks later. Over the summer I suffered another mc (early this time) and he didn't even visit me. I was very hurt and things began to fall apart. I told him to stay at his mum's so he did. He said he had to start work early in his new job and couldn't come on holiday with me and the children (he was obssessed with losing clients). I went on my own. I discovered I was pg again while I was there (from a stupid one off shag).

Since earlier this year his behaviour has changed dramatically, although it has been 100 times worst for the last few months. He thinks nothing of sitting saying the vilest things to me while I sob in front of the children. If he is stressed/tired/fed up he will attack me verbally for hours. I remember going to a dinner party with friends and dh just put me down constantly in front of them all. I felt completely humiliated. He said later it was because he was angry with me. I didn't know why at the time.

He is very weird after such events, I will cry for ages (I do not cry easily), and usually go to bed. He behaves the next day as though everything is fine. kissing me, and talking normally. I am left baffled as to what he is thinking. If challenged, he will say he was annoyed/angry (about something, often unconnected to me, but which becomes my fault in some way), and I will not be able to see what happened to cause the incident. I am left on perpetual tenterhooks that I will do/say something (or something else will happen) to trigger an abusive episode.

I have suffered hyperemisis and am on medication - extremely ill. (I was so desperate I considered termination, I just didn't know what to do). He will call me the most awful names, fat, lazy, dirty. He has frequently over the past few months told me that I am a nightmare and that no one else will ever have me. that his friends think he has been mad to stick with me. etc etc

He moved out again a couple of weeks ago, but has told everyone that I have thrown him out. technically I have, but the only choice is for me to be a nervous wreck while he verbally abuses me. Most recently he went into my email account and saw an email I had sent to my sister in desperation asking her for help. He went absolutely mad. Started on about what a bad mother I am, how I'm neglecting the children.

I honestly don't know what I have done to deserve being abused so regularly - he says such vile things that I am left in no doubt that he absolutely hates me. He now says that I deserve this treatment for 20 years of crap that he has gone through.

I don't know whether to move back to my old town. I have a house, family, friends there. The children know it, although there won't be places at their schools yet. I am meanwhile stuck in London with no one. I have no friends here, no family, and I won't be able to afford to buy/rent anywhere. I don't want to rent forever anyway. I am worried about how I will cope on my own with a newborn and 5 children. I am getting scared every time I see dh as I think he just hates me so much. I honestly don't know what I have done to deserve such vitriol. I am just so alone I don't know what to do.

Sorry this is so long. My life has completely spiralled out of control recently and I don't know what to do.

OP posts:
Zanywany · 27/10/2011 10:49

My gut feeling is to move back to where you have a house, friends and family as your H sounds absolutly awful but I realise thats easier said than done. He has treated you appallingly and you don't deserve any of the crap that he hasput you through for 20 years.

4aminsomniac · 27/10/2011 10:56

Please stop thinking that all this is your fault, it sounds as if he has behaved very badly and given you none of the support you deserve from a life partner.

Is life on your own with the children really going to be worse than being in this relationship? Relationships end, life goes on, especially for the children! Yes, you will have to be strong, but it sounds as if you are! Good luck.

BeattieBow · 27/10/2011 11:10

I don't think I mind being on my own actually. Although I do mind it if I stay in London as I have no support at all here. But H says I'll be ruining the children's lives by moving

He also says that I have ruined his life for 20 years, so I deserve this current treatment (I have asked for examples, but he hasn't given any yet).

He says so much and seems so sure that he is right, that I am starting to worry that he'll be able to persuade other people of his point of view. (he says they all agree with him anyway, including my family)

OP posts:
Zanywany · 27/10/2011 11:22

It sounds as though he is ruining the childrens lives by constantly being nast and abusive to their Mother. My ex used to say no one believed me and that they felt sorry for him putting up with me, it took me a while to realise how wrong he was. HOw are your DC's? Do they say much about how he treats you?

jjgirl · 27/10/2011 11:26

does he have some sort of undiagnosed mental health problem?

PopcornMouse · 27/10/2011 11:28

Does it really matter what other people think? If they think badly of you for getting out of a bad marriage then they're not really friends at all, are they?

Wrt your kids, I don't think it's unusual to move somewhere, it not work out, and move back. And you being in a good place emotionally and mentally can only be good for them. I would take time to think things through, and make a as concrete, long-term decision as you can - you splitting will be a big upheaval for the kids, and they need their peers and stability in other areas of their lives at a time like this.

almostgrownup · 27/10/2011 11:32

My feeling is that he has been driven off the rails by the prospect of yet another child to be responsible for. A man struggling to keep his job, with 6 children to provide for? And unfortunately it does look as though he has run away from a situation which he finds too hard to cope with. You probably are best off seeking support in your home town, even if schooling is a difficulty at first. Best of luck to you, what a difficult place to be in.

BeattieBow · 27/10/2011 11:39

I was going to post in the mental health section actually. I think he is acting deranged.

almostgrownup he has been acting like this for a few months - since before I was pg. He does worry about supporting us, he always has, so I work too and earn enough to support the family without his salary. I do this because i was also worried about him getting sacked and leaving us destitute.

popcornmouse I don't know why it is so important to me to make him see that he is being irrational. He is acting completely crazily that it astounds me. I don't care what he says to my family or friends, I know they will support me. I don't care what he says to his friends - I don't know them and don't see them.

I have only spoken to dd1 about his behaviour, asked her whether she thought it was normal for a partner to speak to his wife like that while she is in tears, for 45 minutes, in front of the children. She said not. Unfortunately he is bitter enough to try to persuade them that I am mad (laughing about being called abusive with dd1 etc), but i am trying to be neutral about him when I am with them. I don't trust him at all though.

OP posts:
BeattieBow · 27/10/2011 11:40

zanywany my dh says the same. It makes me doubt my own sanity and actions.

OP posts:
jjgirl · 27/10/2011 11:57

i also think you need to put some boundaries in place to stop the abusive behaviour. if you have to draw the boundaies so that he does not actually live with you for the time being then so be it.

i think you should try the mental health forum.

screamingbohemian · 27/10/2011 11:59

Go home. Let him stay in London and be delusional, you and the kids go home where you have friends, family, a house, and can start a lovely new life together.

In a way, I think maybe you are making things more complicated than they have to be. He is abusing you in front of your children so you really have no option except to remove them from that situation. And since it will be incredibly difficult to take care of 6 kids on your own, that means going home.

I mean, obviously the logistics and dealing with your feelings about this is going to be very complicated, but I think your decision should be pretty straightforward.

I'm so sorry you are dealing with all this Sad

catsmother · 27/10/2011 12:05

I agree that the best possible thing for both you and your children is to move to where you have most support. You don't have any outside support in London because you're new there, and you're certainly not getting it from your husband. Whether he's in the new house with you or not he doesn't deserve any consideration in regard to what you do next ... he forfeited that when he began to be so vile to you. Okay - we all say nasty things in the heat of the moment but this sounds like sustained spiteful abuse, and that's before you even take into account his past lack of support - generally, and also specifically in regard to your miscarriages.

The stuff he's saying to you now sounds like he's full of anger and resentment towards you. Unless there's something you've not said this is grossly unfair and cruel to speak to you in such a way - and appallingly irresponsible and cruel to do this in front of the children as well (though it'd hardly be "better" if he did it when they weren't there). Who knows why he's behaving like this ... mid-life crisis, ongoing depression and/or (work related ?) stress, worries about supporting such a large family, or maybe it's just a case of his true colours finally showing through .... whatever the reason though, it's completely unacceptable and you need to do what's right for you. I don't even care if this is some reaction to having so many children ... I say this because it crossed my mind that maybe in the past one of the reasons he's been so work obsessed was to avoid the day to day hard work of caring for a large family (easy to be a "good" dad if you pick and choose when you want to see them) ... because he should have thought of that (if that's what's behind this) long before now. Thing is though ... apart from attributing this to stress, there's also the fact that he felt no hesitation in slagging you off in front of friends (what was their reaction to that ?) and that's scary, because most people would at least think twice before being so nasty publically. You also mention you get blamed for stuff he's upset about and end up walking on eggshells to try and avoid his rages.

(I keep going back to re-read your post because I didn't take it all in the 1st time and I keep finding more disturbing stuff).

Sod it .... never mind the whys and wherefores, you are being emotionally abused here and probably have been for quite some time. What sort of "man" verbally attacks his wife for "hours and hours" on a regular basis ? Please please please you go to where other people can help you both practically and emotionally and he can go to hell. I know after all this time, and with (soon to be) 6 kids it won't be easy but you're getting little or no practical help from him now so there'll really be no difference in that respect. Emotionally, what he's doing is extremely unfair and extremely damaging, not only for you but also for your children. They must be very upset when they see him laying into you like that. And if he "persuades" other people that you've "ruined" his life then those people aren't worth bothering about. To convince someone else you've "ruined" his life for 20 years, he would have to come up with some absolutely whopping great lies - either that, or he will just sound ridiculous, because, after all, if what he was saying was true, why have 6 children with you ?!

ImperialBlether · 27/10/2011 12:06

He sounds absolutely crazy. I am horrified, tbh, that you have got pregnant whilst he's been like this.

I wonder whether there are severe financial problems that you are not aware of, that are making his stress levels rise. Are you absolutely certain that you know the exact status of your joint finances?

In your situation I would do anything I could do live with the children and away from him.

At the dinner party you mentioned, didn't anyone stand up for you? It must have been horrifically embarrassing for them all - didn't any of them try to shut him up or phone you afterwards?

Miggsie · 27/10/2011 12:09

This sounds dreadful for you but I think your DH fits the role of emotional abuser, it is likely he has been fairly bad throughout your marriage but now it is worse and so obvious you can see it.

The main issue is that your DH appears utterly unable to take responsibility for his own actions, he keeps blaming you all the time, he should recognise that he has responsibility for his own actions, and not blame you. His obsession with work and identifying himself only with how much he earns has driven him to a place where he can only express himself through his work but still blames you because he wouldn't have to work so hard if he didn't have a family, as though his family spontaneously arrived without his being involved. He has done this to himself, he really has, and his lashing out is an indication of his own self hatred.
However you and the children cannot go on living with this sort of abuse and I expect they'll be glad to go back to all their old friends and a mum who isn't in tears all the time.

You need to come to terms with the fact your DH is not longer someone you can live with. I think you would be right to move back to your family, talk to them now, I bet you anything they all start telling you they thought your DH was a git years ago but said nothing for your sake.

I also recommend you look up emotional abuse on google and check out some of the mumsnet threads on the subject.

haylojaylo · 27/10/2011 12:17

Sounds to me like this vile man is just pushing and pushing you so that you will end the relationship rather than him having to end a relationship he is clearly not happy in. Lots of men do this, they are basically cowardly and would rather do anything else than end a relationship. You need to get away from him as quickly as possible for all your sakes. Could you stay with someone temporarily where you used to live, if that is where you want to go? Don't let it drag out. See a good family law solicitor immediately (most first appointments are free), start the ball rolling with a divorce and arrange access for your children with their father, where you do not have to see him. Don't keep going round the loop of trying to make the relationship work, it will not work, things will only get worse. You have to put your children first, this sort of environment is not good for them.

BeattieBow · 27/10/2011 12:18

It does sound as though I've just let it all happen to me I agree. But I have only just realised that he is an abuser. I got the book mentioned on here and it fitted in so well. But like all abusers, he didn't do it permanently, and I used to forget it happened/make excuses for it/think it was a one-off etc. It didn't used to happen as frequently as it does now. He also has a knack of being able to make me look as though I'm mad or imagining it. Even now he laughs when I call him an abusive person. He was joking about it with the dcs yesterday. Sad He is awful.

I started keeping notes of the incidents to track them. and since I have got wise to him they do happen more often. no one else thinks he is abusive, they all think he's lovely, easy going etc. He usually waits until its just me and him (and the children Sad) to lay into me. As soon as I realised what he was like I asked him to move out, but he'll do it when seeing me even for handovers with the children now. It's crazy. I never thought I'd be in a relationship like this, and even now he is pretty convincing at persuading me I'm imagining it.

I am horrified too that I am pg during all of this. I seriously thought of an abortion Sad. I wished for a mc. It has been an awful period. awful.

OP posts:
BeattieBow · 27/10/2011 12:20

catsmother he is angry with me and says I deserve it all. He says I have been awful to him for years. I can't for the life of me think what I have done - I'm probably not easy to live with, but I don't think I've done anything to deserve this. having said that, he would think I've been very one-sided in my account.

OP posts:
haylojaylo · 27/10/2011 12:22

Also, if he was that worried about having children and them ruining his life he could have used a condom!!

screamingbohemian · 27/10/2011 12:28

Beattie, if he put you down for hours in front of your friends, then I'm pretty sure other people don't think he's great. If he keeps getting sacked for screwing up, I don't think the people he works with think he's great. Once you really split up, you will probably find lots of people didn't really fancy him at all, they were just being nice rather than say to you, 'FGS why are you with that wanker?'

catsmother · 27/10/2011 12:32

But Beattie, he hasn't come up with any explanation as to why you've been "awful". And, as I said before, if you are/were that awful why have more children with you ? If you'd been awful, he should have no trouble justifying his accusation but instead you're being used as a scapegoat for his own unhappiness. I don't know if it's stress and/or mental health issues but unless you are a reincarnation of Hitler or somesuch similar, no-one deserves to put up with what he's doing to you. Thank God that you are at least living seperately - I'd be putting that on a permanent footing asap, and if he continues to abuse you when he collects the children, you might also think about arranging for someone else to be there with you at those times, or even to hand the children over for you, so you don't have to see him at all. I don't know how old your children are, and it obviously must be very difficult for them, but have they ever spoken to you about this or are they seemingly "accepting" it as the "norm" ? Clearly it's not a healthy role model for children of either sex to be witnessing.

Good on you for keeping a diary - though it must make very painful and upsetting reading. Emotional abusers often appear very charming to the outside world, and when you see how apparently popular/respected they are you can start to doubt yourself ... e.g. did you imagine it, did you take it the wrong way, did you make a mountain out of a molehill and so on. Also, as time goes by, you might not remember exactly what was said and an abuser can use that against you. I hope your notes harden your resolve to move back to where you feel most secure.

ItsMeAndMyPumpkinNow · 27/10/2011 12:45

What you have been going through and are living now is horrendous, OP. That is a lot to handle. I'm so sorry about your miscarriage and traumatic medical intervention; I hope you will find the space to grieve properly once you have sorted the current relationship issue.

I don't think I mind being on my own actually. Although I do mind it if I stay in London as I have no support at all here. But H says I'll be ruining the children's lives by moving

Who cares what he things? You know you will cope on your own. You know that you will cope best if you are back in your home town. You know that you will give your children all the love and stability you can. So move.

He also says that I have ruined his life for 20 years, so I deserve this current treatment (I have asked for examples, but he hasn't given any yet).

Ignore his justifications, and don't seek to follow his warpy logic. He is not treating you well, end of. You do not deserve the treatment he is giving you. No-one deserves the treatment he is giving you. It has nothing to do with 20 years of whatever: his abuse is being heaped on you, now. Either it ends or you leave.

He says so much and seems so sure that he is right, that I am starting to worry that he'll be able to persuade other people of his point of view. (he says they all agree with him anyway, including my family)

Who cares what others think? You do not need to be approved of by everyone in your life. Your family and other people will make up their own minds, for their own reasons: you have no influence on what other people think.

I have only spoken to dd1 about his behaviour, asked her whether she thought it was normal for a partner to speak to his wife like that while she is in tears, for 45 minutes, in front of the children. She said not.

Please have these conversations with another adult rather than your own child. It is a stress she does not deserve.

BranchingOut · 27/10/2011 13:05

If you were able to return to your old area, I would like to reassure you that as a teacher, I have several times seen children leave school then return again after a period of time.

They soon settle back in, pick up old friendships and form new ones too.

NicknameTaken · 27/10/2011 13:14

He's horrible, and he's following the very predictable abuser script. They all blame the victim ("you're making me do this!"), they all minimize their abuse (joking about it - what a headfuck for your dcs), they all claim everyone else thinks they're great and will blame you. Once you get away from him and back to your support system, this nightmare will end faster than you can imagine right now.

Nobody should live like this.

windsorTides · 27/10/2011 13:54

Ugh, get rid and move back to where you will have support.

As to why he's got 100 times worse over the past few months, I think all the clues are there.

He's met someone through his new job and is having an affair.

lookbutdonttouch · 27/10/2011 14:34

I don't post much but I lurk, read this and had to say something.

Please read what catsmother and pumpkin said above. Go back to your family and friends, do it before your baby comes. Your children will see you being strong and they will settle right back in and be fine.

Leave him in London to work out where he went wrong, because this is him not you, then take it from there.

One step at a time. Get home first.

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