DH punishing me with his depression??

[Wifeoflaugh]

I posted this in MH on another thread but I'm trying here for a bit more input. All thoughts welcome.

Dh has had depression for years. Things have been much more bearable and our relationship much better since he started citalopram (been on it 3 years now).

My problem: Most of the time dh is outwardly apparently 'normal' although he gets stressed and low at times. And most of the time we get on very well and support each other dealing with our dcs. But every now and then if I do something that he sees as 'nagging' or 'humiliating' him he threatens suicide. The nagging/humiliating can be incredibly trivial e.g. tonight I asked him (in a friendly enough and not stressy voice) not to eat roast potatoes out of the dish with his fingers and use a fork. He said 'I don't do that' and the dcs both said 'yes, you do dad, you just did it,'. This he interprets as me humiliating him in front of the children, 'everyone is against him' and therefore life is not worth living. Another time the trigger was me grumbling that he hadn't replaced a loo roll when he'd used it up.

He has not made open suicide threats in front of the children but he lies on the floor muttering under his breath ("no point going on" etc) and/or storming off and threatening never to come back. Of course this terrifies me and upsets the children and so I end up begging him to 'come back' and pleading with him to accept my apologies. This has happened about once every 2 or 3 months for the past year and each time it's when I have been mildly irritated about a trivial matter and have expressed this to him. I'm not a saint and probably I sometimes I show irritation out loud which translates to him as nagging.

But I am starting to feel manipulated. It feels like my punishment for daring to express any irritation is an automatic 'now look what you've done - you've made me want to kill myself.'

I don't know whether to take this seriously. Is he so depressed that such a tiny thing really tips him over the edge? Or is he using his illness to punish me for annoying him? I don't think I can be a patient saint every minute of every day. Other events such as an unexpected big bill and a problem at work do not seem to have this effect on him even though they are highly stressful.

AAGGGGGHHH. Advice desperately needed.

Well maybe not. But it might knock these episodes on the head if he knows from now on they will be passed on to professionals to deal with. I don't know. I know my own ex was embarassed by the ambulance turning up/and explaining what was wrong.

I'm not surprised, OP, and if giving a name to it helps you, the great. But whether he is common-or-garden depressed, has BPD, or is a green-skinned alien from Mars, the important thing is how his behaviour makes you and your DC feel, and whether continuing to have it as an influence in your and their lives is acceptable.

Well I quite like the idea of ringing 999 next time he threatens suicide, especially about loo rolls. Either he is really really suicidal (and then it does need to be treated) or he is using his illness as an excuse for his behaviour and it has to stop.

Another option would be to go and see his GP and tell him about his behaviour (the muttering, lying on the floor, suicide threats) and explain that you are
1- worried about him
2- worried about your dcs and the effect it will have on them to see their dad like this.
Again if he needs help, he would get it. If he doesn't because it is all bluff and control, then either he will have to face it and change or you will have to take a decidion re his behaviour ie find a way to 'control hos control techniques' if possible or to leave him if this is an unbearable situation.

Tbh, I would also look carefully to the effect his behavior has on your dcs. Have you explain them what is going on? Do they know about their dad's depression? Because at that age, if I had seen my dad reacting in this way for that sort of reason, I would have been very worried and anxious that it was my fault (You said your dcs told him he had been using his fingers so it could be that they will see themsleves as part of the problem).

And btw, being depressed doesn't measn that everyboy around you has to behave perfectly so that not to irritate you/make you feel depressed or suicidal. May be he needs some counselling too on the top of the ADs (These will help but only mask the symptoms. It looks like he needs to solve a few issues of his own)

Oh, Tiffany, I think the ambulance turning up would be excellent medicine for that kind of manipulator, indeed! I just think one must act, or not act, but never threaten, iyswim.

xpost with lots of you. I need to get quicker at typing...

IF there is a possible BPD, then perhaps the GP route would be a good idea too.

But you do need to see how you are going to handle the situation for your dcs, what sort of message you are going to give them.

What are you calling BPD?

Personality disorder or bi polar?

BPD is a condition, not an illness. It is permanent.

Regardless of what's up with him diagnostically speaking, OP's husband needs to request any medical or psychiatric help he receives himself. Meaning that he must first want to change.

Yes but what do you do when said person doesn't see there is a propblem and their reactions are out of proportion?
Can you not have a chat with the GP about it and hope that theu will be able to open theyes of said paeron a little?

Great minds think alike.

I have had the phone in my hand at times and seriously intended to phone 999. It made him calm down enough to admit he wouldn't do anything there and then. I would phone if I believed there was a risk of him actually carrying out the threats.

I have forced him to the GP twice. The first time resulted in the ADs. The second time in CBT which he is undergoing at the moment. But this has consisted of only 6 (actually 4 because the therapist was ill) very short (20 minute) sessions. He has found it useful, especially the online exercises but I get the impression that that is IT as far as NHS help is concerned.

I have told the dcs that dh has depression. I was forced to tell them due to an incident when he scared us all and I thought it was better to explain that his behaviour was not their fault but he was struggling with stress. I actually don't know what I should say to them now about daily every day life as nine times out of ten dh is a good dad and they get on well. I don't want to scare them or let them know that there is any question of a fear of suicide etc.

Tiffany: Borderline personality disoder

I don't want to scare [DC]

he lies on the floor muttering under his breath ("no point going on" etc) and/or storming off and threatening never to come back

That horse has bolted.

I am wondering how your children are NOT aware of their father's behaviour when he flips out over a minor disagreement and lies on the floor muttering about suicide.

My dad used to behave exactly the same way, and as we didn't live in a 10 room mansion I was well aware of what was going on. I would have been so much if someone could have explained that it wasn't MY fault and that it was a psychological condition.
Thinking your parent is going to kill themself is fking terrifying for a child.

I would agree. This behaviour with teens/dc around is terrifying.

To clarify - they do know dh has depression but I suppose I have tried to give the impression that it is under control and not an ongoing problem. If dh has a 'tantrum' I tell them he is feeling stressed at the moment and struggling with his depression.

They do not know that he has ever threatened suicide.

Didn't want to mention this as I'm not wanting to out myself but dh is a different nationality and the mutterings are in his language that the dcs don't speak.

Yes you do need to talk to your dcs. You do need to explain to them what is going on.

Look at it this way. He said that you made him feel suicidal because you kept going on at him. But my understanding is that his dcs did tell him the same thing (he was eating with his fingers). So what do you think their reaction will be : to think daddy has a problem or I have a problem and made daddy feel very bad?
Don't underestimate the level of understanding from your dcs. They DO know their dad isn't well and that his reactions aren't normal.

And they probably know about the suicide threats too, even if you think he has never said that in front of them. Walls have ears.

go the 99 route.
i did couple times and when they reported back to me "he says he is fine" i realsied how much manipulation was going on...

"he really could do something to himself in the heat of one of these moments"

what evidence do you have for that?

so far he has only talked and stormed off - what other things has he done eg actaully self harmed that makes you think he would actually do something?

what something do you think he would do?

my exP a bit like ILTs tho he has diagnosed depression and anxiety acc to GP - however this is not to say he does not also have an underlying BPD...

at his worst he has self harmed but not enough to be life threatening - in fact one time when i called his key worker to say "he 's been stabbing himself in the thigh again" they said it was his choice and not a problem to self harm.... he wasnt managing to amke it life threatening.

the times i was really scared was when he was driving cars, sometimes with me and dc in and being v erratic (could have killed us all) and once when he balanced himself on the fire escape of the then joint flat and said "shall i jump then? i jsut stared frozen - i didnt think he would actually - he was threatening really - but he could so easily have accidentlaly fallen the six metre drop...

999 not 99

C'est la vie: 'what evidence do you have for that?'
V good question.
He has grabbed sharp knives and 'hidden' them in pockets etc. Emptied the medicine cupboard of all paracetamol, ADs etc into a bag that he is 'going to take to a motel' but all this has been in front of me. Definitely a performance for my benefit. The 2 times I have been on the point of calling 999 is when he has done this and grabbed car keys.

No self harming.

You're right, it's for your benefit.

By the way, mine (who also scored high on on-line BPD tests I tried on his behalf....) went from threatening to kill himself to threatening to kill me. This kind of behaviour tends to escalate. Because arses/disordered individuals are unable to take responsibility for their own actions, and don't care about the impact that their behaviour has on others -- including their DC.

I am deeply grateful to every single poster here.

I have to go and pay attention to my dcs now or they will fuse into the X box. Thanks.

I think there will be a problem if you call 999 when he's pretending to kill himself. I know it would be great for an ambulance to cart him away, but realistically that won't happen.

What about calling NHS Direct?

I'd speak to your children about this. I would say that he keeps threatening to kill himself but that he is just doing that to make sure you do what he wants you to do.

Otherwise, if he was lying on the floor muttering, I'd go out of the room and if possible, out of the house, taking the children with me. I wouldn't stay to be manipulated like that.

Why is it unrealistic, Blether? They've turned up for a friend of mine, after she'd texted me to say she was ending it all. My GP tells me to ring 999 if I feel I can't go on (haven't yet, but the point is that's medical advice.)

From NHS Direct:
suicide
High-risk warning signs

A person may be at high risk of attempting suicide if they:

threaten to hurt or kill themselves
actively look for ways to kill themselves, such as stockpiling tablets or buying equipment that could be used to suffocate themselves
talk or write about death, dying or suicide

If the person has been diagnosed with a mental health condition, contact a member of their care team or the centre or clinic where they were being treated.

If you do not have any relevant contact details, contact your nearest accident and emergency (A&E) department and ask for the contact details of the nearest crisis resolution team (CRT). CRTs are teams of mental healthcare professionals, such as psychiatrists and psychiatric nurses, who work with people experiencing severe psychological and emotional distress.

While waiting for the person to receive treatment, remove any possible means of suicide from their immediate environment, such as medication, knives or other sharp objects, and household chemicals, such as bleach.

If you think there is a high risk of a person dying by suicide before you can get the appropriate professional help, call 999 and ask for an ambulance.

OP's husband fulfils all three 'high risk' criteria.

When the emergency team realises he's an habitual offender, they'll kick the appropriate systems into action - repeated threats of suicide are a symptom of serious mental health problems, regardless of other behaviours.