Soo long, soo sorry :) men are creeps

[Bobits]

Hi, am new here, although have been reading the boards for awhile.

Unsure as to what Im asking, perhaps affirmation that Im doing the right thing?

Any feedback would be welcome!

Sorry if this gets long, will try to put it into order...

As stated in title Ive just had dd2 - 10 weeks and perfect!
dp of 2.5 years and I moved in together 6 months ago with my 5yr old ds1(previous relationship) Tough for us as DP has no kids and im mid pregnant. He has always been great for ds1. I was finding he wasnt pulling his weight and seemed withdrawn. He was finding the lack of time and space difficult.

I never had a problem with dp watching porn. Until I discovered at 7 1/2 months pregnant he was going onto live webcam sites to 'watch' while he pleasured himself. Totally crossing a boundary for me. (Before even potentially chatting and spending our money).
When confronted was told 'your angry cos im having a wank' & 'its not like we're doing any thing anyway' (not my choice, but because I have a baby bump and he finds it ackward!)
Was utturly shocked at his reaction, not so much the act. But talked it through, explained how i felt hurt and why. Thought he got it but caught him again a week later. This was denied and just put down to watching a 'random porn video' so i ignored the sneaking in and deceitfulness I think because I was in a vulnerable place and wasnt sure if I was being hormonal and over-emotional. It got me thinking about us, about his behaviours & withdrawal or failure to communicate.

We moved on but I couldn't quite let go of what happened. Anyway we had our lovely DD2 and at when she was 6 weeks i ended our relationship.
Mainly because of communication problems. I would raise a problem (money, housework,) dp would input nothing, i was left feeling like there was no point talking to him and things deteriorated.
And because of the webcam thing. How that had panned out the trust in out relationship was destroyed. As he still continued to use porn this also didnt help. Going off to the toilet to have a wank with your phone while your partner is bfing a 5 day old isnt normal is it. Is it just me or does that show a total lack of empathy?

I took dp back after a week because He seemed to show genuine remore and realised how he hurt, disrespected and devalued me as a person and a woman. (I hoped, not because he was caught out and lost out on a happy family).

We 'both' talked more, i thought, identified our problems and that they needed work. Came to the conclusion he (may)has a porn addiction/ unhealthy relationship with porn and that he would have to stop using it.
I tried to start again to rebuild the trust, letting him know it had to be earned but if he was prepared to put the work in i would give him another proper chance.

Sadly, i had suspicions, all denied of course. I could be over sensitive and mistrusting but with good reason. I checked his fone 2nite and found a twitter feed with girls pics on it. Not a big deal, but given where we are - out of line. When I confronted him - he had NOTHING to say. So I handed him a bag

...sorry, and while i was doing ds1 bedtime he packed some things and left.

Im sad because of the relationship that has ended because dp showed me who he is.
Im sad because even though I don't like the person dp is I still love him.

My head knows dp is not worth my love if he would rather have a relationship with his computer and hand rather than have a normal healthy real relationship. But my heart is broken.

'he would rather have a relationship with his computer and hand rather than have a normal healthy real relationship.'
Well I think you are very correct in your conclusion there. And it's his loss.

You have expressed his problem very well, and the issue is that if he can't rebuild trust (and it is his job to do that, and hard enough to do to even with good will and commitment) or even see the need to, you will just end up with more hurt piled up as you try to explain what any moron with half a brain would be expected to take for granted. The big problem with porn is that it's so accessible and there's lots of it available free, so there would always be that little question in your mind if you saw him on his phone or on the computer.

Although you are grieving the loss of your hopes and on top of that dealing with a baby, time will help, as will friendships and RL support. The sort of stress he would have brought into your life when you already have the sleepless nights and baby stuff going on would have probably driven you nuts, and that attitude of entitlement to do whatever disrespectful thing he felt like doing on the basis that you were not available for sex would have done damage to your self esteem.

Some men are not able to cope with the idea of their partners as mothers and prefer a fantasy of a woman who is available and up for sex and maybe this man was one of that crowd -- this fantasy is what porn consists of, of course. This might explain his withdrawal from you when you became a real, every day and every night couple with one real child and another on the way. When you become a parent, life gets as real as it possibly can. You have dealt with it in a mature and responsible way and he was not up to the task. Better to find that out now in a way than to have another baby in the vain hope of growing him up.

Oh, it's really horrible when you've believed in all the best of someone, then they show themselves to be a bit of a twerp really - and keep on showing it, to make matters worse :(

You totally have made the right decision - but you know that. It sounds as if your ex is a bit of a selfish twunt, who sees other people (certainly, women and children) as services to him, not people in their own right. He loved having DS around, but not when he was 'demanding'? What does he think grown-ups are for? Children are demanding; they look to you for their very lives, as well as for protection, information, education and the rest of it. Sounds like he thought DS was only there for his entertainment. What a twerp.

Same goes for his attitude to your pregnancy. You do know that men who like women love a pregnant body, don't you? On the other hand, men who see women as characters out of a porn film see pregnancy as 'something wrong'.

Honestly, he doesn't see women and children as human beings - more like theme-park rides or something. You and your kids deserve so much better than that. Especially since, if he's stayed with you all, he would have tried to train you all to satisfy his requirements and shut the fuck up whenever you wanted to be real human beings :( You're well shot.

You deserve a massive hi-five! But I know what you mean about 'missing' him. It's not really missing him, is it? It's more like missing the bloke he seemed to be, or you wished he were. I know what you mean about still loving him ... It's loving the Mr. Nice, isn't it; the man he seemed he might be. But wasn't.

He proved himself quite a bit worse than average.

But you still miss the imaginary man (as it turned out) you fell in love with. That's completely normal and understandable. Let yourself feel sad about it, and fill in the gaps with proper friends, who know who you really are and enjoy your children unconditionally - and who make you think & laugh!

You'll be okay. This has just taught you what to watch out for. Take care of yourself and DC, you sound great!

x-post with Math (I'm a slow typist!)

bobits just wanted to say I'm sorry that you've had to go through this but you have 100% done the right thing by finishing your relationship with this creep and throwing him out. I did exactly the same. Just after I found out I was PG, found all sorts of stuff on exP laptop, profiles on dating sites, swinging sites, even a profile he had as a woman! Also because he was in RAF and worked odd hours he was often at home while I was at work and would often spend the day wanking over his laptop in the dining room. I had the lovely evidence one day when I came home from work of a sheet of kitchen roll he had used to mop up just left on the table!! I threw this loser out of my house when our DS was 10 weeks old and have NEVER regretted it. My experiences with my ex have put me off men for a very long time, frankly they all give me the creeps these days. My ex also had a drink and anger problem and I didn't want my DS growing up with him as a role model. He also doesn't bother to see DS from one month. You will be fine without this man and your children will be too. It is possible to raise decent and strong children on your own, and better so without a weak man around.

Poor you x

I am astounded at him going for a wank while you're BF. And he is so open about it as well.

Sorry for the late reply, had a late night with dd2, then school run this mornin, busy with dd2 & catching up on h.work!

Thankyou all for your kind supportive words, it reassures me im not being over-sensitive & hormonal.

meth - totally agree with the mother/fantasy aspect (madonna-whore view or something) we BOTH had alot of pressure on our relationship, i worked FT as a waitress until 5days before i gave birth but he said as i was 'independant' through my pregnancy he felt lonely. Withdrawal from our relationship was not how he should have acted.

garlic - im not sure he would have tried to train us to fulfil he needs. He is a very passive person and it would have been more likely he would have 'felt' his needs werent being fulfilled and 'felt' wronged and resentful & distance himself further.
He can't seem to articulate negative emotions at the time, only in hindsight and teased out of him.
When we talked he said when we had dd2 and i was bf-ing he felt lonely and jealous (a normal emotion) but instead of sharing this, he withdrew futher.

I think he has much deeper emotional issues. His hobbies are playing computer games, would be obsessed with twitter & fbook, not interaction just watching, and theres a fine line between lurking and voyerism. He can't seem to articulate negative emotions at the time, only in hindsight and teased out of him. Choosing fantasy over real life seems to dominate him as there is no rejection - which is why I think he has an porn addiction.

I think he uses it as his way of coping with negative emotions in himself and from me, as when i have confronted he has behaved 'angrily and defensively' when he is clearly in the wrong.

Sorry so long post again, but all my feeling and thoughts seem to just pour out! xx

Spongefinger - Im glad you got out too :)

I had ds 1 with a not very nice man, left him when ds was 3 weeks and also never looked back :)

Im sorry your experience has put you off all men. This one man had anger & drink problems, which were 'his' problems.
It was his failure to address these problems and treat u so badly is where his fault lies.

Try not to let it influence and damage potentially good future relationships.
You know what you want, that ur ds is who is important and that you dont need any man to make you happy. You have your eyes open!

I am astounded at him going for a wank while you're BF.

Why?

confidence Seriously? Fair enough we are all entitled to a little bit of 'special alone time' now and again, but you really think that is appropriate behaviour?

I consider myself a very open minded person and I would be fecking furious!

Confidence, one would hope that his partner's breastfeeding his 5-day-old baby might have some emotional significance for him other than "I think I'll go and wank over some phone porn."

It might be less shocking if it was several months into fatherhood, he did it discreetly and she just happened to be feeding at the time ...

i thought that, milk and garlic.
though everyone has their own boundaries, do you think im completely off the mark confidence?

Bobits - You have a really good insight into this man and his problems. Its really heartening to read your posts because - and of course I wish you'd never been put in this situation - you have so done the right thing, for you and for your children.

It cant be easy, but you have absolutely done the right thing. You can look after your little family so much better on your own.

Confidence - its weird you've just picked up on that one bit of the whole thing. On its own, going to watch porn and have a wank when your oh is dealing with your newborn strikes me as strange. In the wider context of the rest of his behaviour, its just utterly crap and yet more proof he's a loser.

I don't think going to the toilet for a wank is that bad either. I use masturbation to relax when I am feeling streassed or uptight sometimes.

I mean stressed

everyone has their own boundaries, do you think im completely off the mark confidence?

No. I think I understand the anti-porn thing. It was just sweepitundertherug's statement about him "going to have a wank" which suggested the wanking (while you were BFing) was the issue, not the porn.

If that's the case, I'm just not sure exactly what people are objecting to - since from what I gather here people don't generally object to wanking per se. Is it the upfrontness of it? (in which case, fair enough - everyone has different standards of discretion and he may have overstepped the ones that you and he implicitly understand). Or is it specifically because you were breastfeeding? In which case, I don't really understand: it's not like the two things have some direct effect on each other and his wanking is going to stop your milk from coming (ahem, or vice versa ).

Or is the idea that he should be there in the room with you every time, feeling too beatific about the spiritual wonderment of it for such lowly concerns?

Are men supposed to stop wanking for the duration of their partners' breastfeeding or something? That would be a tricky demand, as that's the time when couples tend to have the least sex.

There are lots of MNers who have lovely DH/DPs. I only ever come across the creeps. The ones for whom anyone who is not 22 with very large breasts and no sense of responsibility is second class. That is what most of them want. Bearing that in mind I will do them all a favour and not bother. Bobits, I suggest you do the same.

I am a bit confused by this OP...

You didn't have a problem with him looking at porn, but when it became looking at live websites, it became an issue? At some stage, any porn or video on the internet was live, it just becomes a little more interactive I guess if it is live. The whole idea of watching porn is to become turned on sexually, at least I know that is what it does for me. It isn't as if you watch porn for the story line or the excellent acting that often takes place, so what else would you watch it for?

What boundary did it cross, as you didn't really say, other than it upset you and why, but not really clear in the post as what the actually issue was, and what boundary was really crossed.

The drive here was for him to manage his sexual urges, and believe that there was nothing else sinister about it. Everyone has different sexual needs, wants, and desires. I would actually be concerned if he was full filling those needs outside of the relationship. People manage their sexual urges differently. He may not be happy in approaching you to say, hey, I am feeling an urge and need to do something about it, can you help out. Most probably it is dismissed but the thing is, the urge is still there.

I am wondering how many people who are actually posting on here, and saying that they would be disgusted at their DH doing the same thing. I wonder actually how many of their DP would be scared to actually answer the question honestly.

All it is, is an outlet for his sexual frustration. You may not be up for it, but maybe he is? What would you want him to do about it? That is like saying a priest doesn't have a wank. Honestly, would not believe it if they said they didn't, but of course that isn't the story that anyone wants to hear or believe.

I don't believe it is an addiction, it is just to let out some frustration, and for it to cost the relationship is sad. At the end of the day, porn is there to satisfy a need or urge, and isn't really, and should never I think be viewed as devaluing women. I think to be honest for every one who think it demoralises women, you would have a women who doesn't think it does. It does of course depend on the type of porn, and some of it I do find offensive, but some people from both sexes are attracted to it, you may just not be, which is fine.

sorry confidence, i wasn't clear in my original post -
"Going off to the toilet to have a wank with your phone"...(while watching downloaded porn on it) it should have read.

As i said im actually not anti-porn. I have watched porn with an ex partner. I only raised the issue with my partner 2 years into our relationship because it was 'live' webcam.
This changes things because of the more personal nature. It changes from being merely a visual aid to a physical need to an emotional thing.

Dp and I have talked far more openly and he said he was attracted to the live web cam site because of the 'amateurness' and 'THERE IS NO REJECTION'
I think this is an unhealthy reason, no?
It's like the difference between someone who places the odd bet and someone who 'lies and gets into debt to gamble.

I think if I asked a man not to wank I might as well ask him not to breathe :o

^Dp and I have talked far more openly and he said he was attracted to the live web cam site because of the 'amateurness' and 'THERE IS NO REJECTION'
I think this is an unhealthy reason, no?^

Why do you think it's unhealthy?

To be honest... having worked in the Porn industry unexpectedly (as a system administrator) we actually found that amateur porn was more popular than what people would typically think as porn. The main thing around that is finding "the girl next door" to do porn is much more difficult.

Now, the thing is, does he think that the person is on the other end is going to want to run off with him into the sunset, or is that what you are more worried about? It ain't going to happen... I would be more worried about it if he was chatting to a random person on msn, and using webcam, then I think you would have something serious to be concerned about. I would actually have to agree with DP in this.

Yeah, it is strange.... everyone has different sexual needs, and that needs to be acknowledged, and I think you do most definitely. I think just need to work through the feelings and what makes live web cams different to normal online porn for you. At the end of the day, just because it is live, doesn't really make a lot of sense for it to be different to any other porn. It isn't as if they are sitting there chatting about the weather, or other going on's in their life. The main thing is sexual gratification and reducing the sexual urge. I just think that has been missed in the communications between yourself and DP. Would you sit down and watch it with him? Although, most probably most of these types of live cams are females only, which doesn't help things, but if it was a couple, would you sit and watch it?

It doesn't really matter what anyone else thinks is crossing the line - for the OP, crossing the line was her dp video-camming. Didn't mind him watching, did mind him interacting. That's her prerogative.

Your deal-breakers may be different, but she gets to decide what she is willing to put up with.

OP, don't let the porn pologists try and convince you that you are over reacting

you are not

your feelings are perfectly valid, and I for one admire your stance on this

I expect a man like this, with such poor impulse-control, would escalate his skanky behaviour...best you get out now before he leaves this stuff around for dc to find

or starts arranging to meet "like minded" types for "stress relief" while you hold the family together

some women will settle for that

don't be one of them

apologists

aus, i get what your saying.
I think i was hurt because he seemed to withdraw from our relationship emotionally and barely any kisses or cuddles and go off sex when i got a noticibly growing baby bump. I felt hurt because he didn't worry that my needs weren't being fulfilled. I was just to do without because he found it ackward.
I suppose it just felt he viewed me as a womb and a pair of mammary glands, instead of somewhere warm and wet. I know thats a horrible way of putting it but thats how it felt.

confidence - i think ppl watch porn because it gets them off, not because they don't feel rejected by who or what they are watching.