Is it me or him - and what can I do?

[StumpyStumped]

Okay, admitting upfront to a name change in case I bugger it up and get outed...

So.

Problem: DP has gone to bed, leaving me near tears. (In fact, it took ten minutes before he returned to say if I was staying up for a bit I should sleep on the sofa). This evening he paused the film to ask if 'everything' was alright. For me, it is. I love him, I love where we are, and although we have bugger all money I think we'll get by somehow. He thinks he's hanging by a thread, that I'm constantly on the verge of throwing him out, that I don't care enough about him, and that I'll get sick of a penniless life together and leave him.

But we did all this last night. I thought I had reassured him, but tonight I have to face up to the fact that it's irrelevant what I say. We did all this a few months ago as well. Four months ago he accused me of having an affair (NEVER, btw, just NEVER). And before that, etc etc - the point being this is a regular accusation. And I say 'accusation' because that's what it feels like.

Because he always throws all this stuff at me out of the blue and then won't discuss it! I spend my half hour or so explaining how much I love him, and try to get him to say why he feels like this, but all I can get back is 'I don't know', and 'drop it, will you'.

History: in case it sheds any light I've missed. I left a very well paid job in London, and he has earned very little (maybe £2k) in the two years we've been together - he denies it but could this be the problem, that he doesn't feel like a provider? Also, in the first 10 months we were together he dithered about his ex-girlfriend and whether he really loved her after all (NOT easy, as you can imagine) - but he was very depressed and I looked after him, and he picked himself up again, though he still bears some scars from her behaviour. He says he's not been cheated on before, so it can't be that clouding his outlook.

The Point: the tears thing is because I'm beginning to feel it's irrelevant what I do, let alone say. I have supported him emotionally and physically and financially, and it's not enough to reassure him. So what can I try to get him to see me as I am, instead of fretting away on the inside of his own head? Or if this is something he needs to sort out, how do I start to break down that I-don't-know-drop-it defence?

Any help gratefully received since I don't know what to try...

Thanks for the wine, Izzy. I just wish he'd look at what I do and say for proof, rather than listen to the suspicious thoughts in his head.

Not that he is right now - I can hear him snoring upstairs.

It would be nice, I suppose, to wake up of a morning and be certain it would be a good day without him kicking off about something.

Why are you with him? Why waste your life on a man who isn't returning any of the love and care that you're giving him?

If you left him, you'd wake up every morning and be certain it would be a good day without him kicking off about somethingl.

Ah but he does return it most of the time, Izzy. It's just every now and again we have a real doozy, like tonight's. But he's short-tempered in general so fairly often tells me to fuck off, or leave him alone, or that he doesn't want to talk, if something's bothering him.

He's just no good at opening up about what worries him, so gets defensive. I get upset and go quiet because I feel pushed away, then he gets upset (I think) because he then feels left on his own to deal with whatever it is.

Gawd, we're hopeless, aren't we. Wonder what the chances are of getting him to some sort of 'communication styles' session?

Stumpy I'm sorry to sound harsh - but it's a completely pointless relationship. 2k in 2 years? He's not really father material is he? Or a good prospect for retirement?

Plus all the emotional neediness. Get rid!!

Did you see that piece I reproduced on another thread about how to argue constructively?

The money really isn't an issue, North, further than whether it makes him feel rubbish or not - we can get by on very little and he does a lot around the house.

Which thread, Izzy?

I'll see if I can find it, but on second thoughts it might not work with him given his level of emotional needinesss that ncg's pointed out.

It's long - but here you go and I hope it helps although, given the door slamming, I have some serious doubts as to whether he'll respond in a mature manner:

Conflict is a natural form of creating boundaries and learning about each other. It is not the arguing/debating itself that can be hurtful to a relationship, but rather the poor techniques involved with its execution. Here are seven simple strategies to ensure your occasional debate with your partner is handled with finesse, sensitivity, and above all ? maturity.

Start and Finish Disputes on a Positive Note
One of the biggest reasons arguments end badly is because they start poorly as well. Choose an appropriate time when you and your partner are rested and connected. By connected, I am referring to being in sync with each other, as in after food shopping, gardening, or taking a walk together (?together,? being the qualifying word). Open the conversation with how much you appreciate the good things about the relationship, before discussing anything that might be construed as bad. When you?re finished, thank your partner for their time and attention, and remind them that you love them.

Use ?I?, Not ?You?
Nobody likes the blame game, and arguments should never be based on what the other partner is doing, but rather how the effected partner is feeling. The worst statements are generalisations, or absolutes like, ?You always stay at work late,? or ?you never help around the house anymore.? Instead, validate your reason for the discussion with personal observations such as, ?I feel like you don?t want to spend time with me,? or ?I would appreciate a little more help with chores.?

Listen!
This is one of the more obvious strategies, but you would be surprised at the number of arguments that take place, where nobody is really listening to each other. Instead, partners are too busy rolling their eyes, interrupting, or rehearsing what they?re going to say next. Until you really ?get? what it is your partner is saying, you will not reach an acceptable resolution. What?s more, when your partner senses you aren?t listening, it puts them on the defense. One of the best ways to show a partner you?re attentive to the problem is to look them in the eye.

Respect
Respect is one of the fundamental necessities of working through conflict. It allows both sides equal say on the matter. It reduces the occurrence of stonewalling (refusal to talk or listen). It finds an appropriate time and place to talk (don?t start arguments in public or in front of the kids), and it ensures raised voices, sarcasm, and verbal abuse stays in check. If you feel your tolerance level reaching its limit, take a break ? and walk away. Just make sure you let your partner know you need time (don?t just leave the room), and then make sure you come back and rejoin the conversation within 24 hours.

Your Goal is Not to Win, It?s Compromise
The immature strategy of an argument is to win. The mature strategy is to work to make sure both partners are victorious. In arguments where there?s a winner, it leaves behind a sticky residue on the relationship, which will guarantee hard feelings the next time conflict arises. A few techniques to ensure a unanimous win-win situation, is to brainstorm solutions, make a pro/con list, or pull a third party (counselor) into the mix if you really find yourselves at a wall.

Stay On Topic
Taking one problem on at a time is a good rule of thumb when dealing with conflict. A lot of partners will bring up various other upsets/past events, in order to shed some of the heat from themselves, but it will only confuse matters worse. It?s difficult to solve a problem when different topics are being introduced. With this said, there?s one caveat. Sometimes an argument about coming home late or not doing chores underlies an even bigger problem, such as fear a partner is cheating, etc. If you sense there?s more to the issue than what appears, take the time to question your partner.

Ask Questions
This strategy is quite simple. If you don?t understand what your partner is trying to say, ask more about it. Use the advice above to help formulate appropriate questions. You never want to insult or insinuate your partner is a poor communicator ?You never make any sense, what are you trying to say?? (Is it that time of the month again?). Sometimes by asking them to clarify the problem, you are not only helping yourself understand their feelings, but you?re helping discover any hidden instigators of the problem (lack of time spent together, etc.).

Ah! I did see that earlier/somewhere else! Thank you very much for searching that out. I'll email it to him to have a read, and I suppose if he's too busy being 'right' tomorrow to want to sort this out, that will be telling in itself.

He usually never wants to talk about things again, but I'll try to insist. I am beginning to sense what previous posters have sensed though - in that here I am, up at ten to four in the morning, looking for answers and solutions because I'm distressed. And he's snoring.

In fact, I might even send him your piece, ask him to think out carefully what he's really worried about, and until he does that and comes to me to talk about it, just refuse to go round in circles anymore. Sound like a plan?

And I might go and pretend to sleep for a bit now. But a thousand thanks for everyone's help and advice.

Hi stumpy, hope you are still asleep .

Just wanted to say that it is totally normal to go to bed at different times. I suppose if it happened all the time then opportunity for night time intimacy / chat would be diminished, but I think it would be rare to find a couple that goes to bed at the same time every night and maybe odd?

Your dp does sound very childish / needy in his reactions. It's not fair that he worries you / distresses you with his complaints but then doesn't give you a chance to discuss things further leaving you to a sleepless night while he rests.

Since you don't have children, separating would not be as difficult as it is for some. I am not saying you should do this necessarily but it is definitely an option and in this way you are not stuck with this situation forever should it not improve. Would your partner consider relationship counselling?

I agree with SGB and others who say that it is emotionally abusive on some level to keep you in a state of worry and instability about the relationship, thus ensuring that you are constantly thinking about it / him, rather than developing a happy life together as well as apart with lots of varied and fun things going on. I'm a fine one to talk as my relationship is really at rock bottom but I have three children so I cannot just walk. I do regret not heeding some of the warnings about my relationship with dh before we had kids though as I could be with someone far more relaxed, loving and accepting (don't regret lovely children though!) / or by myself!

This is calculated emotional abuse. I have lived with someone like this and actually out of all his 'distress' he ended up being very violent to me and I put up with it because I knew he was fucked and couldn't help it! I spent years turning myself inside out trying to reassure him and give him enough attention to make him feel better. It wore me down, crushed me in fact and made me doubt myself. It has taken me years to recover.

If someone comes down and shouts at you and slams fucking doors you should not be asking what have you done wrong you should be walking away. He is a bully, a passive-aggressive bully and you should be very careful because he will destroy you self esteem whilst trying to raise his own. Please be careful, the problem is not with you: it is with him.

Look love THIS MAN IS ABUSIVE. It's NEVER going to get any better. He's a resentful, bitter, nasty loser and he hates women too. Because he's targeted you - a strong, sorted,competent women and he is dedicating himself to destroying you because it makes him feel better. So you've got to be made to feel that all your achievements are futile because you haven't managed to fix him, and if you would only dedicate yourself completely to feeding his ego and scurrying round after him, then you might be a Better Person. I bet he often says things like 'You don't know what a proper relationship is.'
Just bin him off. THe next time he starts whining say 'Yes, you know, you're right, I am sick of you and you're dumped.'
THough actually, that might not be such a good idea as he might well become violent at that point, better just to sort out the practicalities, bin him and refuse any further contact. If you have to get the law involved, do so.

I agree this man is emotionally abusive.

Stop trying to reason with him, explain yourself, justify yourself, pander to him, stroke his ego etc etc.

None of this will ever work because this relationship is exactly what he wants it to be. He doesn't want to change - why should he, he has a partner whose buttons he can press easily, who brings in the bacon and strokes his ego...

One day you will realise this, I hope it is one day soon, not a few wasted years down the line.

And for the record in my case as soon as I took my eye of the ball, when I had a baby and my Mummy became terminally ill and subsequently died, he turned into a monster because the attention was not fully focussed on him. I really thought all along it was me, for years and years, that I wasn't doing a good enough job at caring for him.

When we did part he became even worse and his violence accelerated. I can honestly tell you I would have bet my life at the beginning of the relationship he would never have laid a hand on me because he loved me so much and was so needy but it was precisely that neediness that made him turn on me.

He is picking a fight with you, please be careful

Hi, just read through the thread.

I agree with others who say you need to get away for a bit and evaluate where this is all going. That would validate his assumptions for a while and cause him to shout 'I was right!' but I think you need to do this for yourself, not him.

I don't know whether he is deliberately abusive or just very depressed or what...you know him better. I would say that before you and he go any further, he needs counselling. He is in denial about his behaviour and you cannot move on until he comes to understand what he is doing.

Good luck

Absolutely listen to solidgold and proud

Women like yourself are targeted by men like this. He hates women. He is using you. He is also most definitely a cocklodger.

There are some lovely men out there. He is not one of them.

Darling, this one won't ever come good. Promise.

It's him. And how he is with you.

• took TEN MONTHS to break with the ex girlfriend. WTF? He's not that into you.

• is regularly emotionally abusive.

• says it's all your fault

• regularly tells you to fuck off

• accuses you of various things and DEMANDS reassurance

God what a catch!

My suspicion and experience with a person like this is that they'll run this script in their head - that you really ARE as awful as they say - and then cheat/lie to redress the balance as they see it.

You're on a hiding to nothing with this one. But when you split up, you'll know exactly what to avoid next time.

x-post with some excellent advice.

"BagofHolly Sat 15-Oct-11 09:37:02
My suspicion and experience with a person like this is that they'll run this script in their head - that you really ARE as awful as they say - and then cheat/lie to redress the balance as they see it."

I absolutely second this. This has been my personal experience as well.

I went out with someone like this once. Not for long.

GET RID.

My God - it's XH!

Save yourself another 20 years of this, my love. Not that I would have listened if anyone had told me at the time, but he really is doing it on purpose. You will never be able to reassure him that you aren't thinking what he has decided you are thinking, or that you aren't having or at least planning to have affairs. I will probably never find out whether XH believed that shit or was a good actor, but it doesn't matter. I lived with it for far too long and nothing I could do ever made it better. His business never made any money either. I don't think he particularly wanted it to.

He could be quite sweet, but the sulks and tantrums would come out of the blue and of course it was always my fault. I could have put up with him being a waste of space if only he'd been a consistently nice one, or only reasonably grumpy, but the sudden sulks and tantrums would come out of the blue. When I was quite certain it was nothing I'd done I would sometimes snap back, then he'd go all conciliatory for a while. It was kind of creepy in hindsight, but I always thought "ah, he's getting it at last". But he never did.

My suspicion and experience with a person like this is that they'll run this script in their head - that you really ARE as awful as they say - and then cheat/lie to redress the balance as they see it."

totally agree!!!!

I also wonder what really happened with the ex?

I would ask this - what difference would it make to your life if he wasn't there? Emotionally and materially? Sit down and carefully visualise how you would feel if he'd walked out of the door for the last time. I'll tell you how I felt, I felt devastated that what I thought was a good relationship had broken up, but I also felt this huge sense of a weight being lifted off my shoulders. Sometimes the bad things outweigh the good and I think you wouldn't be posting here if you hadn't go to the point where the scales were tipping towards "bad".
Whatever you say about you not needing more money, the fact is that you struggle and he is contributing pretty much nothing to improving this situation. And yet he's stressing about it. Any self-respecting person would have gone out and got a job I'm afraid. It doesn't matter what his supposed skills are, he isn't using them effectively. Look in the paper, there are plenty of jobs, if he'd worked as a cleaner for a company he'd have brought in more than £20 a day.

I think you've got choices. Either you really want this to work and if you do then you have to find out if he feels the same way. He obviously needs to see a doctor if he appears to be depressed, and it sounds as if the two of you need counselling. If he won't consider that - then how much does he care about making the relationship work?
You have the choice to leave things as they are, continue to suffer the emotional abuse, and keep posting on Mumsnet when it's at it's worst.
You could just tell him it's over and have a better life.