Response to abusers who drink

[Thistledew]

and then blame their loss of control on the alcohol:

According to social anthropologist Kate Fox it is all in your mind, and that cultural expectations regarding how we expect alcohol to affect us are what causes disinhibition and aggression, not the drink itself.

Yet another reason to knock down the argument of "He didn't mean to hit me, it was only because he had had too much to drink".

That is not the message I'm getting from the article you've linked to, and I support Kate Fox's view that it is our erroneous beliefs which provide the perfect excuse for anti-social behaviour.

izzywizzy I think we are saying the same thing. I agree with what Kate Fox says, although I confess that prior to reading it I would have accepted the view that alcohol does make people less inhibited etc.

I know that many women justify staying with men who are abusive when they are drunk as they reason that "it is only the drink talking, he is not really like this".

This research further backs up the argument that no, he really is like that and is choosing to behave in that way to you.

Yes, in vino veritas.

I realise that's not exactly what Fox is saying - but the effect's the same. Drink can't make you break your own moral code; what it can do is give you an excuse to act on your "secret" moral code, the one you don't like admitting to.

A peaceable person does not become violent because of drink. It's interesting that Fox's experiments showed hitters becoming violent when they only thought they were drunk! Though not surprising ... and presumably they had better aim?

Please accept my grovelling apology Thistledew

I don't know how I came to read your post the wrong way but, of course, I can now see that you support Kate Fox's views and I deeply regret misinterpreting your comments.

IMO Kate Fox's work needs to be 'out there', not just for those who suffer alcohol related abuse but to challenge any belief that alcohol can be used to excuse violence.

You've provided a link to a thought-provoking article which I believe deserves to be widely read and it occurs to me that your post is an excellent topic for AIBU, where I hope it will stimulate debate by a larger audience.

Perhaps you could rephrase the title of your post along the lines of 'AIBU to agree that alcohol does not excuse violence' or similar and re-post it on the other board?

With sincere apologies to you again, Izzy.

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Good for Kate Fox! Lundy Bancroft said similar in his books, and I've from what I've seen played out in real life around me I'd say they're both right. I mean I spent best part of a decade getting seriously smashed on weekends, to the point where I'd do some pretty crazy things, including things that have left me a little embarrassed, but I never did anything that I was deeply ashamed of because I never acted out of character. All those embarrassing things I did were things that deep down I knew I was capable of when sober, even if I'd like to pretend otherwise.

The trouble is, it's so convenient to blame it on drink, isn't it. To some extent, and I know this is controversial, the same can be said of drug users. I've come across heroin addicts who will steal from their family and those who would never do that. Those who wouldn't rob friends/family would steal from shops or do other stupid things in their desperation to get a fix, but there was still a moral code there of sorts.