Am I the only here who has put blanket on eyes and chosen to stay in troublesome marriage for the sake of children?

[confusedperson]

We have been together for 5 years and have two DC under 4. If I was to follow Mumsnet advice, I would have divorced him long time ago. I am main earner, main decision maker the one with most household duties. He earns little, is studying part time and is trying to pursue his career, while looking after our DC 3 days in a week. He is a not good parent (not consistent, lets DC watch too much TV so he can sit on computer, does not take them out). He is a bit boring as companion, does not talk much, does not make jokes, and does not engage well into conversations. We hardly spend any time together (partially because he works shifts). Also, I caught him on dating website recently, but his activity there was random and looked more out of curiosity, and it seems to have died out.
I liked in the beginning because he was and is hardworking (when he has a proper job), very tidy, neat, not demanding towards me in any manner, not going out with friends, a bit shy and not flirty manner, cleans after himself, takes care after children?s basic needs without reminding (nappy, food, bathing), complies with whatever rules I set in the house, gives the share of money that I ask (I ask a reasonable amount). Our sex life is regular and not bad (not very exciting though).
Basically, when I say it out loudly, he seems useless. I used to argue with him about it a lot, but I have learnt to detach myself emotionally, make decisions on my own and ask for his help where needed (should ask even more though). It sounds like a single motherhood, but I almost enjoy it, having all the responsibility for decisions. He is out for night work 3-4 nights a week, and I enjoy that time to my own. When he is in, I don?t mind, it is nice to have someone around for a small bit of conversation (actually we are both quiet people) or getting some help with children. We do not argue anymore, because I let him function on his own (most of time) and he usually helps when asked. He cooks, washes and irons for himself (we like different foods). On rare occasions we go out together to a restaurant or another town, but more likely I would leave DC with him and enjoy my cup of tea with a female friend.
He has broken my trust on couple occasions regarding money (like taking too many credit cards for whatever reason), but it didn?t do any material harm to me and hasn?t taken any further, and am just not interested in his financial matters anymore. We have separate budgets, the house is mortgaged on my name, I gladly put aside some odd money to my savings account, and I?d rather don?t know about his debts, if any (I suspect some few hundreds debt on his credit cards).
So we function fine, albeit mostly separate, on daily basis. Obviously DC enjoy having daddy around and they do no see any arguments or odd silences. I do not suffer emotionally (in an obvious way), but I understand that my expectations of having a family were different, and this is not how a family should be. I think I still have some feelings for him, but not sure whether is more sympathy or love. He has long term medical condition which could make his life shorter, and also he is still struggling to pursue his career. I sometimes feel sorry for him but this is not what keeps me with him. I just find it convenient. I don?t want to harm children. I think for breaking the marriage, you have to have a major reason, or feel really unhappy. I convinced myself, that if I am truly not happy, I will divorce, but that moment has not come yet. I wonder if I just blocked my emotions away?
I was married once before and my marriage lasted for 6 years (no children) I cheated on my xDH on several occasions. I was behaving immature and irresponsible. xDH forgave me, but later we split up (other reasons). One thing I realised that I was making mistakes and my xDH was kind enough not to dump me then. I learned a lot and became a responsible family person. Now, I can see that my DH is making lots of mistakes, but I just think that he has to learn in his own way? We will probably never be the most compatible people, but I don?t mind, as long as we have something in common and allow each other breath.
I am a bit afraid that I am blinding myself and wasting my time for something that could be fundamentally wrong. Have I put blanket on my eyes, or there are some of you who managed to live in a similar way, or came out the better way? Please share your thoughts.

Uppity: it's not the norm to stay in violent abusive marriages, no, - I wouldn't stay in one and wouldn't expect anyone else to.
But what is normal is to have a partner ( and I'm talking in general here not about the op ) who does a bit of porn, comes home drunk from the pub now and again, watches too much TV, doesn't pull his weight around the house, leaves wet towels on the bed - that's all ?? Normal ??

Reading your posts: "I feel very content and strong, and I do not feel miserable in any way" - the fact is that apart from a feeling that the grass might be greener elsewhere, you actually enjoy your life for the most part. "We will probably never be the most compatible people, but I don?t mind, as long as we have something in common and allow each other breath" Maybe this kind of relationship actually suits you.
In your case "for the sake of the children" is all about the fact that DH is " looking after children most weekdays (huge factor)" and "I am terrified of being a single mum" - more a case of for the sake of the childcare.
No relationship is perfect - however it may look to those on the outside - but I must say in my case whatever faults my own dh might have, whatever arguments we might have, however humdrum life may be from time to time, I love him with all my heart and I wouldn't trade him in for a different model for anything in the world.
I think your dream, that he might leave you (once the children are old enough not to need looking after), not to mention your reference to his "long term medical condition which could make his life shorter" speak volumes.
What might trigger divorce? You meeting someone else.

And you're doing more harm to yourself and your children trying to find the perfect partner, because the perfect partner doesn't exist in RL - only in adverts. If you find it hard going living with another human, live on your own.

sounds to me like you are trying to convince yourself that you are happy/ this is an ok way to live/ you can endure this for the sake of the kids?

if you were truely believing those things you wouldnt be posting on here asking what are 'divorce triggers'

OP, firstly - you aren't that happy with your decision or you wouldn't be posting here.

Secondly - and most importantly. Do you want more than this for your children when they grow up? You say 'how will they know this isn't normal' - that's exactly the problem! They will think your distant, half-lived relationship is normal - and that is all they may be able to achieve for themselves. They will learn - subconsciously - that love doesn't really exist, that relationships are always a comprimise, that couples have nothing in common and share no joint passions.

There is an excellent book called 'they fuck you up' by Oliver James - in which hettalks about the enormous impact that our parents relationships have on our own choices in life.

Children who grow up watching parents who don't love each other simply 'function' together - will be confused and scared when, as adults, they are presented with a different kind of relationship. Maybe they will find open displays of passion and love baffling - they will shy away from it because it will not be what they think of as 'normal'.

I can't understand why you stay with this man, limiting the possibility of both your lives. If you would rather be in charge of your own life then set both of you free - he can keep being a dad, the situation will be honest and you can both move on. You can stay single if you like - show your kids that a life lived with integrity is what is important.

all this nonsense about 'nobody is perfect' - I only hear it on this site, from people in unhappy relationships. If you want a partner, you can find one who is right for you - who you share real passion for life with. But you dont have to.

I think that truths buried tend to find their way to the surface in ways you might not wish for. I think the best way forward for you would be sole counselling - what lessons in your own family past have taught you to accept this situation? What makes love and passion a scary prospect for you?

If you don't face up to the truth of what you are doing now, the relationship may well blow up in a way you don't want. Your husband may start seeing other people - you may not realise, but your children, older perhaps, may work it out - you simply cannot control the way children view relationships and they ALWAYS see more than you know.

rycooler you are almost the only one here clearly to support my marriage, thank you for that.
LillianGish I like your analysis, well spotted things, although if you referring that I am waiting for my husband to die, that is not true!
bejeezus I am trying to convince myself that no marriage is perfect and it is OK to stay in marriage for the sake of kids if there is no abuse and violence. I wish there was more love but there is no hate, and the whole situation although not right, but not enough reason to divorce.
PenguinsAreThePoint Actually I agree your point very much. I sometimes dream that I should have lived my adult life in 1970s, because my views about endless consumerism and everyone moving on and looking for perfect love-based relationship are a bit old-fashioned. My marriage does sound as a practical arrangement how did it happen?? Is my DH a good, decent man ? I would say so-so. Maybe not enough, although he looks kind and decent on the surfaCE.
Maybe I find easier to stay in my marriage, because I still find him attractive (but not in a teenager-passionate way) and haven?t look at other men. What makes me thing of divorce, because he is orientated to his own wealth mostly, massively lacks of parenting skills and does not show a sign of improving.

I opened this thread because my mother chose to stay an unhappy marriage because of me and my siblings and I'd love to know more about that but it's too late for me to ask.

Do you all think it is really necessary to kiss and cuddle a lot in front of your children? DH and I almost never do, we've never really done public displays of affection, at least not in a physical manner. Surely you can show you love someone in other ways?

confused - re. endless consumerism. I know the point you mean, BUT - surely it is possible to live a life of honest integrity without being on a consumer 'hunt' for the 'perfect' product. It took me a long time to realise the real truth - that it's better to be alone than with the wrong person. that is not a 'consumer' search for perfection. It's a real and honest desire to live a life of honest self respect, not having to hide anything or settle for anything. It was after realising that truth that I met the person who was right for me.

I think it is sad to confuse the selfish constant search for something 'better' with a real desire not to settle for second best when it comes to your life partner - in this, your one and only life. My partner really is perfect. Of course the relationship takes work and neither he or I are really perfect - but he is perfect for me. he is my best friend and we love spending time together.

If it's only functional - then why not both be single. WHy shouldn't he be able to find someone who makes him really really happy if he wants to? You don't really love him, so why make him give up on that? IF he is on dating websites, he will follow through one day...

seriously consider what would happen in the future if he is cheating and you are keeping your eyes shut - your children may notice....

waterrat actually talking about my parents and me a child, my parents were on the verge of divorce for about 5 years, when I was teenager. They did not divorce because my dad could not afford to move out, and there would be no point to divorce if you continue living in the same house. So we just continued to be a full family, and 15 years ond my parents, now in their 60ties, get on well and happy to be together. You could say that they accepted each other as they are, but I don?t see any regrets.
?Children who grow up watching parents who don't love each other simply 'function' together - will be confused and scared when, as adults, they are presented with a different kind of relationship. Maybe they will find open displays of passion and love baffling - they will shy away from it because it will not be what they think of as 'normal'.?
I am sorry but I think this statement overused nowadays, that?s why a divorce became a norm but do we have more happy children and more happy adults? I don?t know?

you might be right about not having more happy children - but look back at how much unhappiness was caused by rigid social norms that made divorce impossible. 50/100/150 years ago - people spent whole lifetimes suffering. Divorce has given enormous freedom to people- but mainly women. Yes it is hard on children, but growing up in an unhappy home is worse I think.

you have learnt your 'rules' on relationships from your own parents...

But - serious question - you posted that you have 'put a blanket on your eyes to stay in a TROUBLESOME marriage'...!!! You are now - after being told to leave - claiming you are happy. So ....I think you are not as happy as you claim...and it would be worth having counselling to at least talk through the conflict inside your head and heart. No harm done and a lot to gain.

and if you are so happy ...why is there a blanket over your eyes?! what is it hiding?

confused, to go back to your question in the title, staying together for the sake of the dcs, I don't think this is something that applies to you. You are staying because in some ways this marriage is relatively confortable, you found a way to fulfill your basic needs wo the help of your H and you are scared to be a lone parent.
There is little in your posts about the dcs, apart from the fact that your think they don't know what is going on because they are too little (very wrong imho, children DO know).

To be honest, I think that what has happened is that you were unhappy in this marriage (hence the arguments), you were scared to be a single parent so you found ways to have some happiness despite living with your H. Most of the things he should be 'providing' you (for a better word), love, support, consideration just aren't there. But you found these in other areas of your life, friends, works etc... You don't even share finances so that you don't have to deal with one area that is an issue with you = debts.
You don't agree with his parenting but let him get away with it (as he is doing childcare 3 days a week and it is a nice arrangement for you).
I don't believe that you are truly happy atm.

I do get what you are saying though about not always looking for somethingelse and thinking that you can't find the 'perfect' partner because he doesn't exist. That's true. Just as much as true happiness is to be found within yourself not from outside things and persons (and that includes your H). But, what is your 'big' goal in life, what you want to achieve? Is your H allowing you to do that, helping you in some ways or is he an hindrance? In 10, 20 years time will you look at your life and be proud of yurself, of what yu have achieve if you stay in this marriage or will you think you have wasted much time?

plenty of people do stay together for the sake of the kids. And i think you would find as many testimonies for and against that, from the now-adults who were the products of those marriages?

the question is- is it right for you, or, can you endure it?

Confusedperson - I would always advise staying in a relationship for the sake of the children - I believe in old fashioned values like 'duty' and 'commitment' - when we had our kids our needs came second to theirs, and their happiness is very important to us - unless you are in a violent abusive relationship you really should stick at it. We're not happy all the time, but we're not particularly unhappy either, but we provide our children with a stable happy home life, with love and support from parents who live together and negotiate what life throws at us together - that's what life is about, not pursuing some impossible dream.

If he does most of the childcare, you probably wouldn't end up with custody of the children, but he would. It does sound like you consider him as less than you in some way. If you are emotionally detached from him, why do you have sex with him?

Look I think it depends on what you find acceptable to live with and what you aspire to for your children. People like Rycooder who say it's normal for DP's to watch a bit of porn, come back from the pub etc., are justifying the fact that their DP's do it and they find it acceptable - and if they're happy with that, then fine, it's OK for them, but it wouldn't be good enough for me - I genuinely believe that I'm worth more than that and I find it slightly sad that so many women don't feel they deserve better. And better, would be being single and happy.

And that's the nub of it: our culture tells us, that we have to be part of a couple to be happy. That that's the only way to live. That that's the only role model we should present to our DC's. And our culture is wrong. I have never been so happy in my life, since realising that I don't need to live with a man ever again if I don't want to, in order to be happy. If I stumble upon one and find him acceptable and he finds me acceptable, then fine, I'll live with a man again, but if I don't, I will be just as happy not living with a man. That doesn't mean you need to live without men - you can have lovers and your DC's don't actually need to know about them, so you're not teaching them to be unstable or anything like that - or you can be celibate if you prefer. But you have choices and you don't have to live with a man to be happy and to show your children a good life choice.

The disadvantage of staying together with a co-parent like this, is that that's all he is - a co-parent. What you are teaching your children, is that they have to be in a couple, but that love is not a necessary component of being in a couple. That seems to me to be the worst of both worlds - you have all the disadvantages of being single, in terms of no emotional support and carrying all the responsibility and the buck stopping with you, but none of the self-respect and freedom that being single gives you. It is better to travel alone than to travel badly accompanied and I hope I'm teaching my children that. Being alone is something so many people are so scared of. But it isn't scary if you embrace it, it's bloody brilliant actually, if you do it right, just as being in a couple is bloody brilliant if it's done right. But neither state is necessary to be happy, or preferable to the other, and I think it's valid to teach our children that, so that they know they don't just have to settle for vague discontent - there are choices, however much society pretends there aren't.

rycooler, this issue with your statement is, as a lot of other ones like 'Leave him you deserve to be happy', way to general.

Each relationhip is an idividual case and needs to be considered individually. If I didn't have a strong idea about 'duty' and 'commitment' I would have left my marriage a long time ago.
However, I don't agree that in any case you should stay together for the sake of the dcs. Firstly because even in non violent, non abusive relationships, not both partners will put their needs before the dcs. Most people stay together, just as the OP, out of fear. Fear of being alone, fear of the unknown, fear of damaging/hurting the dcs because of the divorce. Forgetting that the very situation they are in actually also brings damage and hurt to the dcs.
So if you were to take a decision only based on the needs of the dcs, then you should also need to look at what sort of hurt is caused by living together like this. Is that OK if the 2 partners don't love each other, argue, never spend time together??? It's all a question of nuances and it's these little differences that explain that some children, now adults, found it OK for their parents to stay together and other loathed it.
That's also the reason why it's so difficult for anyone to take a decision. You know what you have but don't know what you are going to get. How can you compare the two and choose the least bad choice?

Agree withanother poster. Time to go and see a counsellor and clarify your ideas, values and reasons to stay in this marriage.

confusedperson,

I think the French proverb, "Better to be alone than to be badly accompanied"
is apt.

Your parents stayed together also out of societal convention and at that time too divorce in society was a complex legal process, very expensive and much frowned upon. If these very real issues had not been present at that time would they have separated anyway?.

My MIL has been the epitome of "duty" and "commitment" in their marriage and they're both stuck in their own respective miseries. There is no affection between them but it suits them to remain together.

What is your H doing to improve things within your relationship?. You're covering up your own emotions here and describe having a blanket put over your eyes.

What would you want your own children to learn from your own marriage?. To my mind both of you are imparting damaging lessons to these young people just as your own parents did with regards to their relationship to you.

Talking to Relate may be a good idea for you so that you can further get your head around things.

It is very sad that self respect and contentment are being described as "an impossible dream"

They're not. Millions of people, whether single or in partnerships, are genuinely happy. It's not an impossible dream.

I think also that the problem with deciding that you are going to stay in a vaguely unhappy relationship for the sake of your children, is that the other person in that relationship may make a different choice from you.

So you could waste a decade of your life if you choose, role modelling a half-life to your children and then end up putting them through the trauma and instability of a divorce anyway, because the other person, who has also been unhappy, has decided to do things differently from you.

Settling for something isn't always the most stable and secure option.

I'm not sure what's going on with you, OP. You do sound like a confused person.

my views about endless consumerism and everyone moving on and looking for perfect love-based relationship are a bit old-fashioned.

• So you feel other values are more important than both consumerism and love. What are these better values, please?

he is orientated to his own wealth mostly

• This suggests he values money more than relationships or love. Are your values, then, compatible?

he is looking after children most weekdays

• So he is your childcare ...

massively lacks of parenting skills

• but is inadequate as such. So are you short-changing your children? You give them over, for the majority of their care, to a cold fish of a person who doesn't bother to parent them. Is this really better than a childminder or au pair who understands and loves children? What is best for their rounded development as human beings?

Your OP was quite difficult for me to read. You may not have realised how very bleak - dispirited, even - you sound, or how contemptuously you speak of your husband. He sounds not so much like a man as a domestic appliance: one that's now obsolete but still functions, so you're not sure whether to get rid of it. That's very disrespectful. Because you write about him with such an absence of feeling, it's hard to tell whether he's worthy of respect or not.

I think you're short-changing yourself, the man you married and your children. You seem to basing your choices on a two-dimensional idea of the Victorian marriage. That idea is flawed. Men and women, in Victorian marriages resembling yours, were as emotionally numb and as resigned to misery as you and your H. They wrote endless letters about it, bravely striving to find some good in their purgatorial lives.

The difference between you and them is that civilised divorce, and renewed opportunities for fulfilment, ARE available to you. In refusing to consider happier alternatives, you're throwing a century of hard work back in the faces of those who fought for your choices.

Happy Victorian families had fully-engaged, demonstrative, wise and caring fathers who parented their children, as well as providing for them, and who encouraged their wives to take pleasure in life. They had fully-engaged, lively and interesting mothers who demonstrated love as much as wisdom and intelligence.

I do not believe you're providing your children with a healthy upbringing, I'm afraid, by Victorian standards or modern.

uppity that is just what I find so sad about these threads! I know so many people in happy relationships, with people they love and respect..yes, there are problems and flaws in everyone....but the basic idea that it's somehow idealistic to look for someone you love and who is your best friend in life...that's just wrong.