Am I being immature and stupid about this and if so why do I feel so hurt? (long - so so sorry)

[possiblyinthewrong]

It was my birthday a few days ago. I?ve been having a really stressful time at work and even though I could ill afford the day off I decided to sod it and take a day?s leave. This was discussed with DH beforehand. In fact we had quite a lengthy chat about not going out for dinner due to lack of babysitter and the cost of it but I said that it would be nice to go for a lunch offer somewhere inexpensive and have take the opportunity to have some time with DD (2.9) in the afternoon . I had arranged for friends to come over the next day and was feeling pretty positive about things.

Background ? DH is a SAHD but this is not through mutual agreement. He had anxiety issues and was struggling with his job and was in the process of being managed out when he left over a year ago. The whole thing was pretty awful at the time ? the job started to go badly wrong for him, he felt he was being bullied, I had started a new job after ML which was very stressful and highly pressured. At the time I had said that I would give it 6 months but if it wasn?t suitable and I couldn?t get the balance I wanted with DD then I would look for something else. Within days of starting this job, he fessed up that things were going wrong at work. Then there were lies about going to work when he wasn?t turning up. He got himself signed off and didn?t tell me, he instructed a law firm about unfair dismissal, discrimination, bullying without telling me and paid for it out of our joint account, he got put on half pay due to the lengthy periods of time he wasn?t working and didn?t tell me. I was going out of my mind at the time ? I was humiliated on more than one occasion when I called to speak to him and he hadn?t gone in. I knew that they?d all be talking about it when I put the phone down. All the time I had this really stressful new job to try and settle into. I saw that I had no choice but to get my head down and do it as I knew his work wasn?t secure. It isn?t compatible with family life at all and I?ve missed out on lots of DD?s milestones. I would have liked to have had another baby quite soon after DD but that is not on the cards any longer. I carry a lot of hurt and anger around with me because of this.

Sorry ? off topic but to try and give some background and because I started typing and it all just sort if fell out.

Anyway a year or so of struggling and then he finally left the job. I was frantic about our finances and sad that it meant that I had absolutely no choice but to keep going on the treadmill but there was a certain amount of relief that it was over. That was over a year ago and he hasn?t worked since. Initially DD stayed in nursery for a bit while I thought he would try and look for work. He says that he has tried but in all this time one job interview and offer materialised which was unworkable because of the geographical location. He has worked hard looking after DD but I hate the way things have worked out. We did discuss and agree how things would work after kids and this certainly wasn?t it. Anyway, he has made no financial contribution to our household since he left his job. I feel completely alone in managing our finances.

So ? when it came round to my birthday there were some things I needed and we agreed that I?d buy some winter boots. I said that I?d have a look around, choose them and send him a link. The way it turned out, I went and bought them and paid for them myself (not even out of the joint account) and brought them home and told him to put them away until my birthday. The next day my sister was over and I asked him to dig them out to get a second opinion from her. I was fretting about the money side of things and didn?t want to make an expensive mistake. Anyway she liked them so I gave them back and said to put them away but they just got left out and junk mail etc piled on top of them.

Basically on the day of my birthday, I came down to find the boots and a card from him and a card from DD and nothing else. Not even a token gesture of flowers picked from the garden or cheapo chocolates or wine or anything. So I just stood there and thought well after all the pain of the last couple of years, after me paying for EVERYTHING for all of us, working like a loon with no chink of light at the end of the tunnel, no hope of moving on, no baby, fertility issues, ticking body clock and no hope of what he will do with himself, no plan of what he will do, will he EVER go and get a job? Will he keep a job? Will I have to be a parent to him for the rest of my life? Will he ever know what happens with our bank accounts or how and when the bills get paid? After all of this, all I?m worth is something I went and got and paid for myself with no thought from him. I felt really hurt and even more so when it became apparent that he had not planned lunch or made any arrangements at all for the rare day off that I?d managed to book. We ended up rowing. Had an absolutely awful day.

My mum texted me but didn?t bother calling. Her card arrived a day late. Silly really but that was just about the final nail in the coffin.

I hate birthdays ? I think this one has hit me so hard because I kept the faith and believed that he would get himself sorted, get a plan, a job. And bang another year has gone by and nothing has happened. I stress about our finances while he doesn?t seem bothered. I stay awake stressing about work and don?t have a waking moment of peace in my day. He has been thinking about retraining as a teacher ? last night after this most horrid of weekends he landed the final blow by telling me that he is almost decided about applying and if he does he will get enrolled by September 2012 and trained by 2013. I could cry ? I just went and sat in the dark and sobbed for an hour. At no point is any of this couched in terms of how this will be managed or how we will pay for childcare and tuition fees. I?ve worked so hard to finally clear my student debt and get debt free save for the mortgage and I just feel depressed that this will lead us back into debt and he gives me no confidence that he will stick with it and 2 more years of me as sole breadwinner. And no baby. No baby. I?m not even happy for my friends when they?re pregnant ? of course I tell them that I am but it hurts so much, it makes me want to gasp for air.

I?m so sorry this is so long and so off topic. Am I being immature and silly to feel like this is a slap in the face. I felt so low the last few days I couldn?t get my words out without my voice cracking. DD has seen me crying and it isn?t fair on her. I know it isn?t really about a present ? it?s just wanting to be looked after and thought about for once. Everyone just assumes I?ll always cope and will get on with it regardless. My mum probably didn?t think for a moment I?d be hurt by her not calling me. Is it just me or do other people end up feeling absolutely wretched on their birthday too?

That is a good idea. Downsizing I mean.

"I cannot understand people coming on here talking about his anxiety "

Why waterrat? Because you don't beleive he is ill. Or because you don't think it's important even if he is?

What I have been trying to get across to the OP is the futility of expecting someone in the grip of this to be the kind of partner she wants. The morality of his behaviour is irrelevant - it's about like moralising with a dog for licking it's arse. She either needs to ditch the partner or give him the sort of ultimatum he cannnot ignore. Perhaps giving up the job in favour of one with less stress and less pay would do it.

And yes I am very aware that she is heading the same way as her partner from what she has written which is why she needs to act. It's no point all of us saying 'yes he is an utter shit and he should be doing X, Y and Z' because that won't make any difference.

It would also give him a sort of consequences for his actions. Maybe even spur him to get a job to avoid it?

Right now your plan of changing things relies entirely on him and his actions. You need him to get a job - soon - and stick at it.

I think you need another plan, however drastic, that is based on your own actions

Sell the house , downsize, go part time or change jobs, make sure you are responsible for at least half the child care then divorce him! Or at least, if not divorce the reclaim your quality of life

A grown man who would consider training as a teacher without talking to his Partner about cost and practical issues is in la la land - I can't imagine disconnecting like he has from my Partner - he isn't at all engaged in how you are keeping the family afloat - it's outrageous that he won't talk about things and comes up with pie in the sky future plans without noticing your stress

Some of the actions you describe in your H sound as though he has been hurt by something you've done and is punishing you. Is that possible?

Oh you poor thing Op, what an awful situation for you.

He has talked about training as a teacher - there are actually bursaries available for people who are retraining as teachers. Perhaps it would be an idea to investigate what he might be entitled to. Because that bursary could fund childcare while he is training. Also, you will soon be entitled to 15 free hours as well.

At that point he is no longer the main carer for your DD. So either he gets back into training and then the workforce, and the pressure then comes off you and you can then work through things and get your relationship back on track - or as he is no longer the main childcarer you can kick the sod out of your home and re-evalulate your finances as to how you could afford childcare on your own.

I feel unloveable and used and ugly. I feel as though I'm not worth a second thought, as though it's important that people don't suffer too much stress or inconvenience, except me. Because it's just me it's ok for me to be flogged workwise. I feel as though I'm the sort of person that doesn't inspire any sense of nurturing in anybody else.

OP, that's awful. Nobody should ever feel that way. Please hold on to that fact. You are not being 'silly' or 'whiny'. You have been put in a terrible stressful position and you can't see the way out - if there is one route to depression, then that's it.

You said at the start that your mother just texted you on your birthday, and sent a card a day late - so is being neglected something you are used to? Because if it is, then it explains a lot about all those negative thoughts you have about yourself. You are blaming yourself for feeling bad about this, and it's not your fault.

Your DH may be suffering from depression - none of us can judge that on the internet, but even if he is, the question you have to ask yourself is how much of your life can you sacrifice for him? A friend of mine is constantly supporting her husband (who suffers from depression). She works long hours (commuting and stressful career), looks after the kids, arranges childcare, sorts out finances, does the house - although he does work too, he has a hobby that costs significant money and means he takes regular and long breaks away from the family. He's also a fitness buff, so he gets home and goes straight out again to exercise. He 'needs' this, because otherwise he will get depressed again. My friend is in a 'no-win' situation. If she complains, he gets depressed. I am pretty sure she's going to have a break-down soon.

I am sorry that counselling didn't work. Sometimes we need to feel better before we feel worse again. I appreciate you don't feel you have the time, but I think you need to make the time, make yourself the priority, because at the moment you are not being heard.

If that's really not possible, keep posting. We'll listen to you.

I can really see both sides in your situation OP.

I TOTALLY understand you resenting (and that's not meant to sound harsh, just honest) your DH getting to be at home with your DD. I work fulltime and DH is a SAHD. The difference in my situation is that DH and I came to that decision together.... we don't want DD to be with anyone but a parent and as I am a lawyer and he is a teacher, we can't afford for me to be at home instead of him. Is this how I would have imagined life being for me (I wake up every morning at 5am, slog in on the tube etc etc)? No. am I jealous of DH? Well, yes, I guess I am. However, DH is working super hard with DD (and I know you do acknowledge that in your posts, but you must remember how being a SAH parent is not lazy etc!) and DD is, in my opinion (and this is very personal of course) a million times better off as she is with a parent.

You talk about some of DH's past actions (going behind your back about work and the solicitors etc), but as others have mentioned, I suspect he was feeling pretty crap at the time. I, many years ago, had an ED and lied a lot (I mean A LOT) to DH about it, despite my illness being out "in the open". That said - you have been hurt and mistreated and that badly needs to be addressed.

I suggest that you and DH get counselling to try to move beyond what i would guess are some of the trust issues and hurt you feel about his past actions and also to cut through some of the rowing (I do know what its like to only seem to be able row, never actually talk).

I do not think the message however should be "put up or shut up" with the situation now.

That said, I really think that asking DH to "pull his socks up and get a job" etc etc, is not the answer.

Coming from my family situation, where a SAHD and me working full time really does work brilliantly, I think that DH remaining as a SAHD should remain open as a future solution. It can work!

Your DH does need to change things though. However, rather than focussing on him bringing money in, can I suggest that what he needs to do is: (a) address the issue of you feeling ugly, unloved etc etc and actively start appreciating you by being conscious and thoughful in his actions and words; (b) even if he cannot contribute to actually bringing money in, he needs to realise that money is both of your responsibility and shoulder the responsibility with you in terms of planning and bugeting etc; (c) he needs to be more proud of what he does do for the family, i.e. looks after your DD fulltime. I think he needs to be willing to say to everyone "This is me. I am a SAHD and I am proud of that role". i think once he has more sef esteem about his role, a lot would change.

The flip side of point (c) above is that you might need to shift your attitude to being proud of him too. He might not be able to be the financial breadwinner I suspect you would like him to be but, provided he shares the responsibility of talking about finances and realisticaly plannig with you, you can I think be proud and happy of what he does for your DD.

As I said, I have (together with DH, and of course that's a big difference) shifted my world view. I had always imagined myself as a SAHM with a working DH. Life does throw up new and challenging things. I am the breadwinner in our family and, to be honest, I am proud of myself for shouldering that responsibility and proud of DH for feeling so secure in is role as a SAHD and being bloody good at it.

I want to give you a HUUUGE hug and really urge you to try to get marriage counselling focussing on your and DH's situation now, and, tbh, moving away from what you would have liked your DH to be... that said, your DH is going to have to make some big changes too in order to take some of the burden off your shoulders and making you feel loved and special.

Sorry - mammouth post! Its just I do recognise some of these feeling and I think, I'm afraid, that some of the posts above suggesting your ditch DH etc are not helpful..........

Just to add - I see you have tried counselling, but maybe give it another go...?

Oh, I started reading this thread and feel for you so much. My DH has had depression/anxiety after a similar story to your DH and it is so hard. I feel like I have to hide it from other people too and and then have to cover up when he comes across as rude to other people when he is stressed. He also refused lots of suggestions of help. Your DD is two and I think it would be an idea for your DH to do a job maybe even a couple of hours per week, perhaps for a charity or a teaching assistant post in the local primary where they may be nicer, DD could go to a nice childminder or nursery. I believe they has taste of teaching sessions and also teaching apprenticeships - there is a lovely man at my son's school who is becoming a teacher through this route. This way he would build his confidence up slowly. My DH got some part time lecturing and this is how he got back into full time employment. Take care of yourself that is the most important thing as you are really a carer rather than just a wife.

I totally feel for you possiblyinthewrong and am entirely on your side. You feel betrayed and utterly trapped and your "partner" is taking the piss. He is putting his own needs before yours and the family's, and violating your previously established agreement about how these early childhood years would work for you both... a period in your daughter's life that is very important to you.

I also can't understand why others are focusing on what your husband might be going through/ feeling, when you are the one who so clearly needs support. If indeed he is anxious (and people can keep taking anxiety medication for years and years without going any further to attempt to address their issues, or even necessarily knowing that they still need the medication - I have family members and friends who do this), that does not mean that you/ we all just need to focus on empathising with him, trying to be more understanding/ indulgent/ accommodating, etc. He still has many options for trying to deal with anything holding him back from re-entering the workforce and improving his mental health. This sounds like a weak man with little self-respect and drive. You sound very similar to me possiblyinthewrong in that you have a strong internal sense of responsibility and drive. He, on the other hand, sees nothing wrong with freeloading off you now that he has the opportunity. (Incidentally, how long were you married before he exited the workforce?) And now whenever you try to raise the issue, he gets angry and snappy and defensive so that you are scared away from discussing and resolving the issue - thus allowing him to continue to live his preferred lifestyle.

I think that first you need to get his employment status out in the open amongst your family and friends. He clearly knows that what he is doing is wrong - otherwise why would he (and his mother!!! Why is she enabling him?) be so secretive about it? The knowledge that everyone knows about his behaviour will be an incentive for him to do something about his situation. It will also mean less of a burden for you, trying to "keep his secrets". You have nothing to be ashamed about in allowing others to know about what he is doing, but he shouldn't be allowed to behave like this behind closed doors and maintain the socially acceptable facade that he is working. In my opinion he needs to feel as uncomfortable about his behaviour as possible.

Second, I agree with the others (and with you) that a solution is important, but will be very difficult to achieve as he currently has NO incentive to change the situation (which is very hurtful to you because your own pain should be enough of an incentive to him). I would think carefully about what is important in life - e.g., more time spent with your daughter versus maintaining a well-off lifestyle (though I'm not sure what kind of lifestyle you're trying to maintain) - I imagine you'd pick time with your daughter. I would then devise a plan for achieving that without needing him - e.g., as others have suggested, selling the house and downsizing... or taking on exchange students or something. Tell him that this is what you plan to do if he does not get a job within a set time frame. He needs to feel majorly inconvenienced as a direct result of his lifestyle choice - not be allowed to continue to maintain a similar lifestyle without needing to work. Once you are earning well above what you need to earn to meet expenses you will have more options regarding reducing your work hours. And then you will have more power in your situation.

Third, I would like you to know that you probably aren't being judged even 1/100th as much by others as you are judging yourself. You sound utterly miserable at the moment - totally understandably - and feel terrible that you are spending a lot of time away from your daughter. I think most of the judgement from others that you are sensing is your own projection. The interpretation of what your husband's behaviour means about his attitude towards you (i.e., that you are not feminine, not worth nurturing) probably also has more to do with your own insecurities and fears and the feelings arising from your fertility difficulties, rather than reflecting his actual motives. (You sound very warm and loving and feminine and maternal.) I think his actual motives are much more straightforward - i.e., he is selfish and able to live a comfortable lifestyle without having to work for it. He doesn't seem to have the work ethic/ sense of justice that you have... and if I were in your shoes, that would make me incredibly pissed off and cause me to have no respect for him.

And based on your description of him there is no way that I think he could cope with training as a teacher - I imagine he would drop out of the course once he realised it wasn't easy 9am-3pm days and school holidays, etc.

What double-standards this is. A woman who was suffering from anxiety issues and had decided (even unilaterally) that she was going to be the SAHP to a 2 year old would not be roundly berated for being lazy, workshy and a piss-taker, particularly if she was debt-free.

I totally agree that his not working needs to be out in the open.

I don't know Charbon, I think it's the unilteral-ness of it that is infuriating people.

My DH has been a SAHD and I'm a bit uncomfortable as well with some of the language on this thread. It's not like the husband is playing video games all day, he's caring for a toddler, that is a job right?

But it's the fact that he's decided on his own that this is the set-up, and expecting the OP to stay in a stressful job because of it, that puts him in the wrong.

I agree Charbon... I have found people's attitudes to SAHDs here (not from OP I hasten to add - see my post) pretty shocking. As I said in my post, I work fulltime and DH is a SAHD. Lazy!?! You must be f**king kidding. He probably works harder than I do and I find it very 1950s that people assume that a husband's contribution to the family must be financial.

That said, as I said in my v long post, the OP's husband does need to change. Rather than the change being to do with him getting a job, I think the change needs to be in him really supporting the OP, making her feel loved and special and being proud of his role as the domestic side of the marriage partnership rather than the financial (being "out" as a SAHD!).

But I am biased!

X-post! Yes dreaming, and that's the big diff with my situation. But I am sooo uncomfortable wioth the implications on here from other posters that DH is doing nothing by being a SAHD!

Poor OP though. something needs to change for her.

Are you around still OP? I am guessing you're at work, like me!!!!!

Yes. There has been a lot of that on this thread. It's as if it's so hardwired into our brains that dads go out to work and mums stay at home that we find it hard to accept things the other way around.

To me this is not at all about being a stay-at-home-dad. It is about a man who is unilaterally making decisions about how he will live his life, overriding previous agreements that he has made with his partner and refusing to discuss with her a problem that is causing her a lot of pain.

She writes: "I just went and sat in the dark and sobbed for an hour... I felt so low the last few days I couldn?t get my words out without my voice cracking... I feel betrayed that any element of choice was taken from me... He gets upset or defensive or angry if I try to talk to him about any of it."

All this and much more suggests to me that this is not about any "typical, mutually agreed-on" stay-at-home-dad arrangement. My comments have nothing to do with stay-at-home-dads at all - they have to do with my impression of this specific individual.

Oh no, it wasn't 'agreed upon' by any manner of means. But that is what happens when events take things out of our hands. None of that takes away from what the OP is suffering.

He sounds bloody awful.

Agree completely with SGB and waterrat. If his problems are genuine, he has an obligation to his wife and daughter to get help and do the best he can to get his family back on an even keel again - i.e., his wife not feeling the way she does now. but he doesn't seem to care about that. Of course he doesn't - this is a man who thought it fine to lie and cheat about his work situation and steal from the joint account to fund his own crappy decisions on getting himself out of the workplace and sitting pretty.

Most sinister is your fear of 'him and his mother' getting custody of your DD - this shows that at a very fundamental level you don't trust him - again, not at all surprising given what you've said here.

Personally I think you need to start thinking through strategies to get yourself out of this 'relationship' and unpick your ties with this man. But if you would still rather try and work on it, you need to act now - talk to him and tell him in no uncertain terms that you cannot carry on like this. If you're worried about custody etc. I wouldn't even breathe a word about separation - I would be saying that I couldn't continue in my job full time much longer, that we need to a. look at downsizing or b. you NEED to get back in the workplace. Start from there: 'I cannot cope much longer. You've had the support up to now - now I need some. What are you going to do about it?' His reaction will tell you a lot.

Other than that, I'd certainly go and see a solicitor to talk through your fears about residence. I don't know enough to comment, but his manipulative behavour over this and the fact that him being a SAHP wasn't your plan should count for something. You may find yourself advised, firstly, to cut back on your work in order to even out the childcare, though. It might have to be a case of having the guts to do just that - to quit your job, to do what HE did - if your long-term goal is to get out of the marriage, you might need to have the guts to simply refuse to play anymore. The result would be an enforced downsizing on a dramatic scale... but it might be the only way to put a rocket up his arse. Right now, he has you on a string, on a hamster wheel - you daren't stop running because the fall-out would be worse than the status quo. But perhaps it wouldn't be, long term.

Keep posting!

Being a SAHD most certainly is a job, but one that he seems to be getting no respect for, either from the OP or some posters on this thread. I can't think of many higher-earning new Dads who would get much sympathy for saying that they'd go back to work and try it for 6 months, but if they couldn't hack it there would have to be a re-negotiation. If this thread is anything to go by, I can see why he'd fear others' reactions to him not working. Lying isn't the answer though - better to wear the SAHD badge with pride, even if everyone else's reaction is to belittle it and insist he gets a job.

I have the feeling we're not getting the whole story here. In addition to being anxious, this man sounds angry and hurt. Maybe it's because he still feels aggrieved about being bullied out of his job (and that seems to be his perception, if not the OP's), maybe it's because he knows she would leave him if they swapped roles or maybe there's something else here we don't know.

I think one of the key issues here is that OP is not getting support from people but in some ways that is because she is not asking for support. I think it would be a good thing if OP was honest with friends and said I am working because DH isn't working and really I would like to work part time rather than slog my guts out.

OP-No one has stacks of cash right now, people are all struggling, if they aren't they could be in the future so no one is judging you. If they do they are wankers and will pay for it one day.

There is no point in rowing about the situation. Learn to be assertive rather than agressive this way conflict is resolved rather than increased.

Agree - OP is obviously really suffering.

But its not necessarily her husband's "fault" that she feels the element of choice was taken from her. Life does throw up changes. DH and I "planned" on me benig a SAHM. DH was then working in the city and earning more than me. He hated that job and it was getting him very down (he was suffering from panic attacks etc) so he retrained as a teacher (the depression and anxiety he was feeling did not make him "work shy"! They were linked to the situation he was in). He had been a teacher for 3 years when DD came along and at that stage, it became clear that I would now be the breadwinner for our family. It wasn't unilateral in that DH and I agreed together that that was the way forward, but it was not what we had "agreed" before he became over-stressed in his city job and DD came along......

I really think they need to try counselling and work primarily on her being allowed to express how she feels with her husband feeling guilty (I expect this is why he shuts down about it) and him changing his support and care towards her (she really, really needs to feel loved - that is the husband's fault, but he can change it), not necessarily him getting a job.

sorry: express how she feels without her husband feeling guilty

Also, depressed people don't always show affection, they are thinking about themselves rather than thinking about others so they do shut down in that respect too.