Am I being immature and stupid about this and if so why do I feel so hurt? (long - so so sorry)

[possiblyinthewrong]

It was my birthday a few days ago. I?ve been having a really stressful time at work and even though I could ill afford the day off I decided to sod it and take a day?s leave. This was discussed with DH beforehand. In fact we had quite a lengthy chat about not going out for dinner due to lack of babysitter and the cost of it but I said that it would be nice to go for a lunch offer somewhere inexpensive and have take the opportunity to have some time with DD (2.9) in the afternoon . I had arranged for friends to come over the next day and was feeling pretty positive about things.

Background ? DH is a SAHD but this is not through mutual agreement. He had anxiety issues and was struggling with his job and was in the process of being managed out when he left over a year ago. The whole thing was pretty awful at the time ? the job started to go badly wrong for him, he felt he was being bullied, I had started a new job after ML which was very stressful and highly pressured. At the time I had said that I would give it 6 months but if it wasn?t suitable and I couldn?t get the balance I wanted with DD then I would look for something else. Within days of starting this job, he fessed up that things were going wrong at work. Then there were lies about going to work when he wasn?t turning up. He got himself signed off and didn?t tell me, he instructed a law firm about unfair dismissal, discrimination, bullying without telling me and paid for it out of our joint account, he got put on half pay due to the lengthy periods of time he wasn?t working and didn?t tell me. I was going out of my mind at the time ? I was humiliated on more than one occasion when I called to speak to him and he hadn?t gone in. I knew that they?d all be talking about it when I put the phone down. All the time I had this really stressful new job to try and settle into. I saw that I had no choice but to get my head down and do it as I knew his work wasn?t secure. It isn?t compatible with family life at all and I?ve missed out on lots of DD?s milestones. I would have liked to have had another baby quite soon after DD but that is not on the cards any longer. I carry a lot of hurt and anger around with me because of this.

Sorry ? off topic but to try and give some background and because I started typing and it all just sort if fell out.

Anyway a year or so of struggling and then he finally left the job. I was frantic about our finances and sad that it meant that I had absolutely no choice but to keep going on the treadmill but there was a certain amount of relief that it was over. That was over a year ago and he hasn?t worked since. Initially DD stayed in nursery for a bit while I thought he would try and look for work. He says that he has tried but in all this time one job interview and offer materialised which was unworkable because of the geographical location. He has worked hard looking after DD but I hate the way things have worked out. We did discuss and agree how things would work after kids and this certainly wasn?t it. Anyway, he has made no financial contribution to our household since he left his job. I feel completely alone in managing our finances.

So ? when it came round to my birthday there were some things I needed and we agreed that I?d buy some winter boots. I said that I?d have a look around, choose them and send him a link. The way it turned out, I went and bought them and paid for them myself (not even out of the joint account) and brought them home and told him to put them away until my birthday. The next day my sister was over and I asked him to dig them out to get a second opinion from her. I was fretting about the money side of things and didn?t want to make an expensive mistake. Anyway she liked them so I gave them back and said to put them away but they just got left out and junk mail etc piled on top of them.

Basically on the day of my birthday, I came down to find the boots and a card from him and a card from DD and nothing else. Not even a token gesture of flowers picked from the garden or cheapo chocolates or wine or anything. So I just stood there and thought well after all the pain of the last couple of years, after me paying for EVERYTHING for all of us, working like a loon with no chink of light at the end of the tunnel, no hope of moving on, no baby, fertility issues, ticking body clock and no hope of what he will do with himself, no plan of what he will do, will he EVER go and get a job? Will he keep a job? Will I have to be a parent to him for the rest of my life? Will he ever know what happens with our bank accounts or how and when the bills get paid? After all of this, all I?m worth is something I went and got and paid for myself with no thought from him. I felt really hurt and even more so when it became apparent that he had not planned lunch or made any arrangements at all for the rare day off that I?d managed to book. We ended up rowing. Had an absolutely awful day.

My mum texted me but didn?t bother calling. Her card arrived a day late. Silly really but that was just about the final nail in the coffin.

I hate birthdays ? I think this one has hit me so hard because I kept the faith and believed that he would get himself sorted, get a plan, a job. And bang another year has gone by and nothing has happened. I stress about our finances while he doesn?t seem bothered. I stay awake stressing about work and don?t have a waking moment of peace in my day. He has been thinking about retraining as a teacher ? last night after this most horrid of weekends he landed the final blow by telling me that he is almost decided about applying and if he does he will get enrolled by September 2012 and trained by 2013. I could cry ? I just went and sat in the dark and sobbed for an hour. At no point is any of this couched in terms of how this will be managed or how we will pay for childcare and tuition fees. I?ve worked so hard to finally clear my student debt and get debt free save for the mortgage and I just feel depressed that this will lead us back into debt and he gives me no confidence that he will stick with it and 2 more years of me as sole breadwinner. And no baby. No baby. I?m not even happy for my friends when they?re pregnant ? of course I tell them that I am but it hurts so much, it makes me want to gasp for air.

I?m so sorry this is so long and so off topic. Am I being immature and silly to feel like this is a slap in the face. I felt so low the last few days I couldn?t get my words out without my voice cracking. DD has seen me crying and it isn?t fair on her. I know it isn?t really about a present ? it?s just wanting to be looked after and thought about for once. Everyone just assumes I?ll always cope and will get on with it regardless. My mum probably didn?t think for a moment I?d be hurt by her not calling me. Is it just me or do other people end up feeling absolutely wretched on their birthday too?

I am amazed you haven't smothered this selfish, workshy, lazy, thoughtless whinyarse. He is draining the life out of you. I think you need to take a serious look at the practicalities of getting him out of the house and separating your finances from his so he can't spend any more of the family money on chasing lawyers or other mad schemes (tossers like this often have a go at starting disastrous 'businesses' which involve them buying new clothes/gadgets and drinks for other people but never get off the ground).

everything SGB says.

If this man has serious ambitions to become a teacher I'm father christmas. Teaching is one of the hardest, most gruelling jobs it is possible to do. My friends who have done the PGCE say it was the toughest year of their life - followed only by the NQT year. children smell fear! It is not a good job for people who are anxious and find working life difficult to cope with. It requires huge patience, self organisation and discipline, you can't just not turn up if you have a hard day. Teachers put in hours and hours of work at home in their first couple of years. He is simply putting off sorting his life out, in an unrealistic way. He hasn't considered who will pay for childcare while he does the PGCE has he?

Why are people concerned about him? He is happy as larry, while the OP is clearly on the verge of a nervous breakdown - OP, you need to sort this situation out, it is making you deeply unhappy. This man has retired from life, without your agreement, without discussing it with you as a partner - he is happy, you are not. He is an extra child, one who shows you no consideration at all - you cannot live the rest of your life like this.

the only concern is that he does the childcare so if you split he would get custody and you would end up paying him maintenance. You need legal advice.

But going forward with him, you need to stop enabling him with nonsense like 'applying for a pgce next year ' ??? that is a joke, you need to get tough, as you would with a teenager who was loafing around, not working - he has to get a job and that is that.

I suggest you get some counselling to talk all of this through and work out what your options are. YOu only get one life, you can't stay this unhappy forever.

waterrat - I was concerned about him because the Op made it clear he was suffering from anxiety. Having been there and been through hell, taken meds and finally come out the other side (with the odd relapse) I get very riled when it appears people take it lightly - as the OP and some other posters appeared to be doing. If that was not the case, I apologise. But it doesn't always just go away easily. While I was ill I was like wet cardboard - spineless and useless - and simply in a state of constant anxiety. Asking me to make decisions or actually do anything was pointless. I am amazed I didn't lose my job TBH. And the after-effects are still there 3 years later - I still get panicky very very easily and have trouble sleeping. it takes very little to get me back to where I was.

But regardless of whether he is still ill, or scared to work after his previous experiences, or is now malingering, don't rely on him to make the changes needed. I'm afraid its down to you to tell him how things are going to be from now on. Tell him he needs to get work, he won't (maybe can't) make the decision for himself. And if he doesn't, tell him the consequences. No more discussions, now is the time to dictate.

I stick to my point about plans having to be changed - life doesn't always work out the way you expect. SAHM-dom may never be within your reach but you have the right to an easier, happier life and to spend more time with your DD.

Good luck.

Agree about teaching btw. DH teachers kids with behavioural difficulties (OK they are worse than most) and there are days when he's been in bits when he gets home. It isn't a nice easy ride for anyone.

If he really wants to be a teacher I suggest he tries being a teaching assistant first. Not only would it give him good insight into the role and the stress/behaviour problems it would also help if did decide to go ahead and needed references.

A lot of schools both primary and secondary are on the lookout for male TAs.

I'm so sorry, it sounds like a rotten situation.

I don't want to stick up for your husband, because he does sound selfish and inconsiderate, but I'm just wondering if you could envisage any situation in which you would be okay with him being a SAHD?

Because in most of your posts, you are emphasising that he needs to get a job, even stacking shelves or volunteer work. That is not really financially sensible given childcare costs, so it sounds like in fact you cannot have respect for him unless he is working.

I wonder if it might be possible to set aside the job situation for now and focus on the rest of his behaviour -- in effect, saying okay, you are a SAHD for the moment, but I need you to put more effort into A) appreciating me and my hard work, B) keeping the house clean and managing bills and such, C) looking for work or training.

You are upset about having to work so hard while he lives the life of Riley, as you see it -- but he is working too, he is taking care of your DD. At least, this is what we say to all the SAHMs on MN! So it does not have to automatically be a problem that he is not working. The problem is all the other stuff, maybe you could work on that first.

Reading through and the general consensus seems to be shut up and put up.

At the outset I understood that perhaps I am in the wrong about all of this. What I do know is that it does hurt and that it doesn't feel just.

I accept that stuff happens and life doesn't always turn out as you expect or want, I really do. I've had my fair share of trauma and crappy times but I've come through them even when it didn't ever feel like there would be light at the end of the tunnel or when weeks strecthed into months of numbness and it wasn't worth getting out of bed. In this I am powerless because I have no way of changing it.

I recognise that it is hard being at home with a little one and this isn't an attack on SAHPs. I understand that it's hard work but it is also something so precious that not everybody gets the chance to do or the luxury of it. We had discussed and agreed how that would work in practice after DD and I feel betrayed that any element of choice was taken from me. How would any SAHM or indeed SAHD feel if their partner stopped working or earning one day and didn't look to replace that income in any way leaving them with no choice but to take a FT role out of the home. My work is not family friendly and the market we're in does not allow me the choice to downsize the role to something that is. I feel judged every day of my life by other people that make assumptions that I must be cold hearted, ruthless and unmaternal to do the work I do for the hours that I do when I have a 2 year old. Even relatives and friends don't even know that he isn't working - he has kept it from most people. And others perpetuate this untruth, my MIL for example has not let on to her family what is actually going on.

Ormirian - I take on board what you are saying but that makes it no less difficlut to read. Did you have partner that supported you through your illness? How did you get through it?

I don't think the consensus is 'put up and shut up' at all. My posts weren't for sure. I was trying to emphasise that if he is still ill, he won't be in the right state to willingly make decisions and changes in his life. You will need to force him to do so - or end the relationship.

DH was partially supportive I suppose. He did his best but he didn't understand. I had to deal with most of it myself. The ADs did help a bit quite quickly once I actually got some help.

You do sound depressed yourself TBH. Do you think that is likely?

Oh dear OP, I don't think a single person has meant to say 'put up or shut up' -- I'm sorry that's what you've taken from this.

I know in my case, I just meant that if realistically he's not going to get a job tomorrow, is there a way to make the best of things and get him to improve in other ways?

I agree with Ormirian, you sound depressed yourself (I have used much the same language when I was depressed). It sounds like the life you want and the life you have are miles apart and you are having a hard time with that (as is only natural).

Something needs to change. What do you think a good first step would be?

I have been where your DH is (depression, anxiety, work-related stress to the extent I became work-phobic and am only just getting over it after 11 years) and I still think he's being unfair to you. But you've bottled up all the big and small, reasonable and unreasonable things you wanted to say to him over the years, and that's enabled him to keep the status quo.

None of this was your choice either, and yet you feel you can't complain. I think for both your sakes you have to insist on him going to counselling with you again. And you have to be allowed to say how you feel.

BTW, my DH has supported me through all this, and I've been a really good SAHM, but I know he'd find it really hard if his job was very stressful and if I didn't appear to care for and be grateful to him, and talk to him about my plans and not just assume things.

OP, I'm very reluctant to say "kick the bastard out", though I want to, because I am worried about him never working again, having the child to live with him, whilst you both support them and don't get the chance to see your child very often.

Your job sounds like it's taking far more out of you than anyone would want. Maybe you could look first at a job which would allow you more time at home.

Give him a deadline for getting a job - and that's not a teaching job in two years' time. He needs to get a job as soon as possible.

Having said that, once you are both working, I would then go for a divorce.

I'm keeping my eye out for a job - I work in a fairly niche field so not easy to move on. I tried to renegotiate my terms at work but it wasn't possible. i tried to move roles but was blocked for business reasons.

The problem is that I am dependent on him for childcare to keep paying the mortgage and our lives ticking over. I have nightmares about him and his mother taking DD and I can't rock the boat for taht reason at the moment. I need him to work and then perhaps I'd have more options workwise, downshift a little. That would leave us on a more equal footing and me less frightened that he woudl have the case for custody. The thing is I suspect that if we were able to find that equal footing we might start to heal and separation wouldn't be on the cards. It just seems utterly impossible to get there.

what do you think about what I said, OP?

I think you're right GetAway. The bit that really resonates is 'you have to be allowed to say how you feel'. Because I have actually said this to him - a lot. He gets upset or defensive or angry if I try to talk to him about any of it but I've said that whether he thinks my feelings are right or wrong, I need to be allowed to say what it makes me feel like so we can try and get to the bottom of how we move forwadr together to a better place for everyone.

I feel unloveable and used and ugly. I feel as though I'm not worth a second thought, as though it's important that people don't suffer too much stress or inconvenience, except me. Because it's just me it's ok for me to be flogged workwise. I feel as though I'm the sort of person that doesn't inspire any sense of nurturing in anybody else. I feel (and this really is anathema to me) less feminine, less womanly - he doesn't feel any urge to look after me or provide for us. I hate that - I hate that I coudl possibly feel like that. It's pathetic but it does somehow touch all those nerves. I feel so judges by other people - I just want to distance myself from friends and family because I don't want to explain it and I can't without breaking down anyway and nobody wants that sort of scene.

My DH finds it hard to be honest with me but it would eat away at me if I thought he resented me. And I'd definitely know if he was drifting into depression, as you seem to be. Unfortunately relationships can develop in this way - one partner has a lot invested in assuming the other one is OK and can always support them. I know there have been times I've taken my DH for granted. I don't see how you can move forward unless he will listen to you.

sorry that was meant to be "and I definitelywould want to know if he was drifting into depression" etc etc

So the lazy fucker gets to sit at home but everyone else has to be lied to and convinced that he is working reeeeally hard for his family? I really would have murdered a man like this by now.
This isn't just depression or anxiety with your H, this is hardcore selfishness. I think you should consult a solicitor about getting rid of this parasite TBH.

First OP, have a massive (((hug)))

This sounds like a really difficult situation. If you'd agreed he could be a SAHD then it would be unfair to turn around and demand he get a job. But of course that wasn't agreed or even asked. And, from what I've read, you actually wanted the option of getting some SAHM days or even fulltime one day - and that's the crux of the problem, because you've put the family first and worked even though it's killing you to pay the bills, while your husband has only put himself first and in doing so has taken the very thing you wanted. Incredibly selfish.

To repair this, you really need your DH to recognise what is going on and take steps to change things - but will he want to? You need to have a long honest conversation about how you feel, including the fact you resent that he has changed your plans and it no longer means you can have children. If he hears all this and only comes back with a vague plan to be a teacher, you'll have to decide what to do next.

Seperating would be difficult as at the moment he would get custody :(. I'm hoping someone here will have a really clever idea for you.

"I feel unloveable and used and ugly." - OP I'm so sorry that you feel like this - you have absolutely got to act. Please focus on the fact that the only reason you feel like this is because of this mans behaviour - one man, not the whole world is being uncaring to you. The treatment of one selfish unkind man does not define who you are. You know that by reading mumsnet, so many lovely women are badly treated - that is only a reflection on the men who abuse them.

So - this is what I suggest...you have got to start opening up about this to your friends and family, getting support and input. There is no reason you should be lying or keeping this a secret - quite the opposite. You are protecting him and you are also stopping people from seeing that you need their moral support and guidance.

You are losing yourself in this situation, and unless you reach out for help, you might seriously damage your own mental health. YOu sound totally broken.

This man is bleeding you dry - I cannot understand people coming on here talking about his anxiety - regardless of those prblems, he is not being loving, caring or considerate. He wont talk openly or deal with the situation. He makes your life immeasurably harder.

I think you also have to face up to and prepare for one scary fact- that he may never hold down a job. What is your plan for that? He may well simply never do it - after all, getting a job isn't easy and if he doesn't pursue it with passion it wont happen. Then he needs to actually keep it. while right now he has a far bette,r happier life.

so - you need to practically prepare and start reaching out....and think about your options.

Don't feel sorry for me. I can't cope with it. If the tears start they won't stop. Practical steps is good advice but I feel as though I've been through every option and discounted it for one reason or another and I know that sounds defeatist but it's just where I got to so far. I'm a lawyer (not family law - not even related to that field but I have studied it all at kaw school) - I feel that my position at the moment is completely compromised due to our circumstances and who is primary carer.

If there is no way out right now then we need to carry on as we are until the situation changes.

How about selling up, downsizing/renting and going part-time yourself?

Take up some of the childcare, tell him to also get part-time work?

You're debt-free save for the mortgage? So fuck it, why not get off the hamster wheel?

Is downsizing an option? you say if he got a job you could scale back work-wise, could you get to that point by downsizing instead?

It sounds like the stress of your job is almost as much of a problem as his lack of one (not that they are morally equivalent obviously).

Have you ever talked to a solicitor about what would happen if you separate? The anxiety about losing your DD seems to drive a lot of your decisions, but maybe you don't need to worry so much? The fact that your DH cares for her would have to be balanced against his deceptive and selfish behaviour.

Finally, I really think you would benefit from some CBT counseling, to get rid of these mental habits you have at the moment of seeing yourself in the worst light, feeling angry but not able to express it, feeling trapped, etc. I think you are going to struggle to make any decisions about your marriage as long as you are so unhappy, and I wouldn't be hopeful that your DH is suddenly going to get better and be a decent partner.