What are my options if I don't want to break up the family?

[EmilyBarton]

A few months back I found that H had been instant messaging a woman on Facebook that he knew from school days. At first I noticed she cropped up on posts quite a lot but thought it was just old friends catching up. Then saw exchanges on chat and these included pages and pages of kisses and "I love you" "I love you too" etc from both sides. I approached H and he said that some months earlier he had arranged to meet this woman while we were staying with his in-laws. He said that they kissed (but not French kissed) at the end of the meeting and acknowledged that they had "a moment". He also said that after this they discussed (presumably via chat) that they could do something about it but decided not to. She is married and also with children.

He said that they hadn't met again and had agreed to be friends. However, FB activity was quite frequent, including her posting on pictures of my kids and joining a page that I set up with H. When I raised objections to the content of the chat he said it was "two old friends being affectionate", he was drunk and it didn't mean anything. By the way, this is someone that I have never met or heard of in 15 years of being together. It hurt even more because the evening in question, he'd said to me to go and get something sexy on and he'd be through in a few minutes.

I had also found a till receipt for purchase of two cups of coffee on a day when H had got a lift with me to a meeting . I quite innocently asked him if he'd met up with someone (it was before I found out about the other stuff). He explained it by saying that there was a mix-up at the till. I later I found out that he had met up with another former school pal and had written her FB messages that were more innocent, but mentioning that her eyes looked stunning in a photo. There was another occasion when he shared a hotel room with a female friend and told me he was sharing with his male friend and that he felt he had to because I wouldn't have understood that she's just an old friend (I do think that's true, despite suspicions in the past).

He was extremely remorseful when I approached him about all this. He told me about the meeting and kiss voluntarily but swore that there is no more to know. I have told him that I don't believe that. He acknowledges that and that it will take time to build any trust in the relationship again.

Yesterday we were at a funeral of one of his relatives. Back at my in-laws house, where we were having refreshments, H made a beeline for his second cousin and talked to her for most of the event. I noticed that he was flirtatious (her partner was not present) but didn't worry as all were family etc. However, I went through and he was bending down, stroking her leg and when he saw me he said "oh no, there's [myname]". H claims that he does not remember saying that, although he remembers taking some interest in this lady's legs because they were talking about running (which was true, I had been involved in part of that conversation earlier in the evening).

H says that he loves me and we have a reasonable sex life. I am slimmer and more attractive now than when we met, something that he often compliments me on but he can also be quite hurtful as far as personal comments. He can be attentive and affectionate. We also share a sense of humour and have fun together still, particularly at home. H is charismatic and funny. He can also be quite negative, has a short fuse (but is never physically abusive) and very critical of others. He can be very rude to his parents and other people close to him too (but really nice to strangers...so odd) but we all put up with it and let him away with it as he's good at apologising. He would definitely not think that behaviour described above is acceptable for others. He often describes other men as being creeps and he reacts when I get comments made by my male Facebook friends, even if they are joint friends of ours, my brother in law etc and even though they have never been suggestive or flirtatious or anything. H is good with the children and loves them very much.

I work full time and commute quite a long distance. H was made redundant 10 years ago when I was on mat leave with child 2 and has not applied for, or had a job since. He is trying to become an artist and he has stayed at home with the children, 2nd of which has been at school for over 5 years now. I have tried to support him with the art, but although he has the skills and talent, I don't think he works hard enough to achieve success in this difficult field. He finds excuses not to work, spends a lot of time on the computer on FB etc, he often has illnesses like headaches or mild colds etc. He is taking anti-depressants. I have quite a good job, but still with just one salary, we don't have the lifestyle that, H, in particular, would like.

I told him this morning that I'd had enough. The thing with his cousin was hurtful but not the only problem. Strangely, this morning when he said how much he loves me it sounded truthful, unlike some of the other things "I'll change, we'll make a team again..." but I don't think I feel the same. I really don't want to hurt the children. I told H this that I think he takes advantage of the fact that he knows I don't want to leave the kids, or for him to have to leave them. We are good friends as well as partners but although I still like H, and still fancy him enough, in an ideal world I wouldn't want to be married to him now. I frequently fantasize about being single. I don't lack guts or motivation and I'm very independent. What's stopping me is that I but don't want to make a huge mistake as far as splitting up the children from either myself or their dad. I want to know what to do next. I don't know what to believe and I don't know what to do. What are my options? Thanks for reading this long post!

Your marriage is in crisis. He sounds like he is behaving like a selfish git and he needs to start taking ownership of his life. It also appears that you have lost a lot of respect for him.

You need to talk to him. If he just bucked up and got a job and took himself and your marriage more seriously, do you think that will be enough? I think he sounds like he's throwing any reason for goodwill away but you are a family and breaking that up is a difficult decision.

Tell him you want to leave him perhaps unless he shapes up?

and, if that is your real name (not the US author!, consider changing it?).

Take it slow. From my own experience counselling alone can be a good option - Relate will happily counsel just one of you, or counsel you separately as well as together. Personally I also found a book called something like 'too good to leave too bad to stay' very helpful. But don't do nothing.

Thanks for quick comments. That's not my name!

What are you both teaching these children about relationships here?. Is this really an ideal role model for them to be learning from?.

This is already broken; he has not shown any real remorse for his actions and has explained them away poorly. Words are cheap; just look at all his actions. How many times have you heard him say "I'll change" only to revert back to his normal patterns of behaviour?.

Better to be apart and happier than to be together and miserable.

Blimey, sounds like you have put up with a lot. He doesn't sound trustworthy at all. Tbh, I don't know what to say, you seem so calm and in control even though the situation is pretty ridiculous. Maybe give counselling a go and it might help you work out what's best for you all.

He's cheating on you. Sorry.

So, just to focus on his bad points, you are married to a man who openly flirts with other women, to the extent of kissing them, but would never accept you doing a similar thing. He has contributed nothing financially to your household in a decade, and he can be rude, negative and critical of others.

On the plus side, you get along, he can be funny, and I'm presuming as he hasn't got a particularly full diary between the hours of 9 & 3, that you come home to a spotless house, entertained children, and a home-cooked meal every night?

Does he really enhance your life? Make you feel secure, loved and safe? Or is he more like a dependent, who needs entertaining, reminding, supporting, without giving much back?

Whilst I am very pro having a stay at home parent, I believe that person's role to be a nurturing one, and you don't seem very nurtured at the moment - how do your kids feel? Do they tiptoe round their dad, or does he support and he them through life?

Sorry, a lot of questions here, but I'm trying to ascertain if you really have a partner in life with your DH, and your children have a hands-on sahd, or if you have a cocklodger.

help them through...

cocklodger !

I'm not sure what you're asking here - maybe you feel the same? It can be so hard when you post on here to articulate just what help is needed, so I sympathise!!

Are you asking whether it's possible to stay committed to a marriage where you are lied to repeatedly, with a man who is perpetually trying to be unfaithful and in all probability has succeeded a few times? A man who thinks it's beneath him to bring in money? Only you know your own limits with that one. I could not.

Or are you asking whether it's possible stay in the marriage for convenience's sake, but that you're both free to pursue other discreet relationships? It's a pretty horrible role model of a relationship for DCs and it doesn't sound as though your H "does" discretion, but instead rubs your nose in it.

If you're asking what you should believe, I can only say what I believe based on what you've posted.

Which is that you're married to a serial adulterer, who lies and takes you for a mug, both financially and emotionally.

I think you could have a happier life without him. The kids would adjust.

Hi - thank you all for all your very kind and thoughtful messages. I'll try to answer some questions raised. Charbon - I don't believe that a marriage with discrete relationships would work at all, although I think perhaps it has for my H until he got found out recently. I certainly wouldn't be happy and as he is definitely "the jealous type" himself, I'm sure it would turn nasty very quickly. I have never cheated on him and I tend to be attentive. He doesn't think it's beneath him to bring in money, but he's deluded about the extent to which others work for money whereas he thinks he is working hard on his art-work. He's actually quite critical about other guys who don't pull their weight - our brother in law, for example, who he regards as a free-loader?! Major B, he does cook dinner most week nights and he is very good with the kids a lot of the time. He claims to do a lot of housework, but only really washes up and sweeps kitchen floor and I do a bit when I get in or at mostly at weekend. He does shopping and mows the lawn/trims hedge etc. The difficult thing is that he's a bit of both of those two descriptions - it's not quite as clear cut as most people would assume from reading the post. He's not a total git and I'm not a total mug but there is plenty of truth in both those descriptions!! This evening I told him that I am seriously thinking of leaving and that at the moment I can't see any alternative. He says that he has told me everything (about other women etc) and that he still doesn't remember the thing with his cousin and he is pleading with me that we are a team and that he loves me so much etc. He offered to get a P/T job but I've heard that before and I'm not sure if it will happen, or if that would make it all right again anyway. I'd just start worrying about who he was flirting with at work.

I've suggested to him that i need some time to think things through. I might tell him to go to his Mum's for the rest of the weekend. I really want him to talk things through with her because when it's only between us, I can't believe any of it and he can say anything. At least if there were any chance of saving this, someone else has to be party to the conditions.

Well he's not going to tell his mum what you've told us is he!?

No - but I might!

Seriously, she does know us both pretty well and we have discussed some other fairly personal things with her in the past. Maybe not in detail on the infidelity but he doesn't think he's done that much on that front - he agrees that it's hurtful and he was dishonest but as there was no actual sex (that he's admitted to) then he thinks it's not that big a deal. So he might discuss with his Mum. His Mum does often tell him he doesn't do enough and that he needs to get a job.

Honestly, I think the benefit of the doubt may be misplaced here. This is going to sound incredibly hurtful and I'm sorry but if he or hasn't had affairs he appears to be actively pursuing the opportunity to have one while you work to support your family. Very bad manners, at best... I think you'd be better off apart.

He either earns enough money or he doesn't, which is it?

Likewise, if that is truly all he does in the way of domestic work - and the DCs are at school all day, then he is bone idle. Are you saying you do lots of domestic tasks when you get in at night and then throughout the weekend?

What do you believe about his fidelity? I know what I believe from reading your post, but it might help for you to unpick this and decide what you're prepared to put up with. Lots of people wouldn't even stand for the things you've busted him for, you know. It sounds as though you keep coming across things and of course there is therefore every likelihood that there's more, but you just haven't found it yet. None of these admissions have come from him, have they?

If an open marriage is not an option here (and I agree, it would probably be disastrous) then realistically, that only leaves two others doesn't it? You stay with a man who will continue lying and acting like a child when he's been caught (what he said to his cousin might as well have been "better stop, mummy's coming" ) and who won't do a decent day's work - or you put an end to the relationship.

What I would say though, is don't make idle threats about leaving. If you're serious about it, follow though on it because if this man is ever going to change, only something drastic like the loss of everything, will induce that.

It seems the only thing that is stopping him pursuing these avenues (with many different women!) is that he has got caught or they don't want to take it further. I would feel very very worried if I was you- the remark, 'oh no, here's my wife' says it all. Can you imagine saying that yourself and reversing the roles? He seems to enjoy lots of free time to pursue old flames and do little work. Lucky him. No wonder he doesn't want to change (although as a concession he does offer to work part-time?!!!!)

I am not sure how to advise as from what you have written, it does seem rather that he is taking advantage in numerous ways. But I understand what you mean about enjoying his company and finding him attractive. However, he isn't putting much energy into you two, and he is putting his energy elsewhere. I think it's only a matter of time before you find evidence of a sexual affair (although several pages of 'I love you''s with an old flame would finish things off for me anyway).

Thanks so much everyone. I would be interested in hearing too from anyone who has managed to repair a relationship after infidelity etc or managed to make major changes. Just want to make sure I look at all options. Lots of people seem to regret getting divorced and it's a big step to take especially when you are the one working full time.

Well...in a different way, I mean when working full time. I know it must be even more horrendous if you don't have any income - apols if I offended anyone with that comment

I don't regret divorce. I regret not doing it sooner.

Interesting that you want to hear from people who have repaired a relationship, not people who have gone through similar.

About 5 years ago, I found out my husband had cheated on me. He begged, cried, promised me the world if I'd take him back - sounded truthful, heartbroken. We did the whole counselling schtick, but I was still uneasy and kept asking questions. After 2 years of me tearing myself apart trying to get at the truth, he finally admitted to another affair years earlier, whilst I was pregnant. I had always suspected and he had always told me I was paranoid (blah, blah).

Despite all this I was desperate for my children to have a chance of a united family and put under enormous pressure from my Catholic mother to forgive him and think about the children. I gave him the chance that he'd wiped the slate clean and turned over a new leaf.

I found out last year that he was seeing prostitutes.

Now this is my story, not yours. But what we have in common, is a man who has very, very little respect for their wife - to the point they would flirt at a funeral with another woman and then go 'oh no, it's xx' like you are some sort of hideous imcumbrance to his life rather than the woman who pays his bills, who he promised to love and cherish.

Ask yourself the serious question; do you want to have a relationship with a man like that? It's your call and I totally understand how devastating the other option seems. But whatever you decide, please put your own mental wellbeing and self esteem at the top of the list (because I can guarantee you, it doesn't even figure on your husband's)

Thanks for sharing that - and sorry to hear about your experience too.
I assume you've left your husband, turquoisetumble? TBH I suspected mine was seeing someone when when my son was very small. Possibly when my daughter was small as well but no proof and he denies

We live in a strange sexless marriage now, where we actually get on very well (because I have accepted the truth that he is a compulsive cheat and it's nothing to do with me, and I expect nothing from him except polite conversation, mowing the lawn and good parenting).

I am biding my time regarding divorce, and have a deadline not far in the future, but not imminent (to do with kids and my career) when I will file. It will be at a time that is the most beneficial to me. My priority is simply my own well-being and mental health, which after years of putting everyone else first and being emotionally abused/manipulated is like a holiday in the Caribbean.

I told other people off on another thread for projecting, so I hope I've made it clear that this is my experience and yours may be different. However there are loud alarm bells - and the fact that you've already suspected an affair is one of them. I now know that my gut instinct was right every single fucking time I suspected and that my husband really had no qualms about telling me I was paranoid to get me off his back (I loved him, so of course believed him - I must be paranoid, because he wasn't cheaing on me!). That was how little he cared for my mental well-being, although he would swear on the life of his children today that he loves me and always has.

I do know of people who have happily reconciled after an affair, but all of those were in long marriages where the affair was definitely out of character, often after a bereavement in the family or some other trauma.

I am sorry you are in this position. The only advice I can give is that your happiness is important too and whilst we all make sacrifices and compromises, playing the martyr would be damaging for you and your children. You have to know where the line lies.