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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

What are my options if I don't want to break up the family?

67 replies

EmilyBarton · 30/09/2011 15:55

A few months back I found that H had been instant messaging a woman on Facebook that he knew from school days. At first I noticed she cropped up on posts quite a lot but thought it was just old friends catching up. Then saw exchanges on chat and these included pages and pages of kisses and "I love you" "I love you too" etc from both sides. I approached H and he said that some months earlier he had arranged to meet this woman while we were staying with his in-laws. He said that they kissed (but not French kissed) at the end of the meeting and acknowledged that they had "a moment". He also said that after this they discussed (presumably via chat) that they could do something about it but decided not to. She is married and also with children.

He said that they hadn't met again and had agreed to be friends. However, FB activity was quite frequent, including her posting on pictures of my kids and joining a page that I set up with H. When I raised objections to the content of the chat he said it was "two old friends being affectionate", he was drunk and it didn't mean anything. By the way, this is someone that I have never met or heard of in 15 years of being together. It hurt even more because the evening in question, he'd said to me to go and get something sexy on and he'd be through in a few minutes.

I had also found a till receipt for purchase of two cups of coffee on a day when H had got a lift with me to a meeting . I quite innocently asked him if he'd met up with someone (it was before I found out about the other stuff). He explained it by saying that there was a mix-up at the till. I later I found out that he had met up with another former school pal and had written her FB messages that were more innocent, but mentioning that her eyes looked stunning in a photo. There was another occasion when he shared a hotel room with a female friend and told me he was sharing with his male friend and that he felt he had to because I wouldn't have understood that she's just an old friend (I do think that's true, despite suspicions in the past).

He was extremely remorseful when I approached him about all this. He told me about the meeting and kiss voluntarily but swore that there is no more to know. I have told him that I don't believe that. He acknowledges that and that it will take time to build any trust in the relationship again.

Yesterday we were at a funeral of one of his relatives. Back at my in-laws house, where we were having refreshments, H made a beeline for his second cousin and talked to her for most of the event. I noticed that he was flirtatious (her partner was not present) but didn't worry as all were family etc. However, I went through and he was bending down, stroking her leg and when he saw me he said "oh no, there's [myname]". H claims that he does not remember saying that, although he remembers taking some interest in this lady's legs because they were talking about running (which was true, I had been involved in part of that conversation earlier in the evening).

H says that he loves me and we have a reasonable sex life. I am slimmer and more attractive now than when we met, something that he often compliments me on but he can also be quite hurtful as far as personal comments. He can be attentive and affectionate. We also share a sense of humour and have fun together still, particularly at home. H is charismatic and funny. He can also be quite negative, has a short fuse (but is never physically abusive) and very critical of others. He can be very rude to his parents and other people close to him too (but really nice to strangers...so odd) but we all put up with it and let him away with it as he's good at apologising. He would definitely not think that behaviour described above is acceptable for others. He often describes other men as being creeps and he reacts when I get comments made by my male Facebook friends, even if they are joint friends of ours, my brother in law etc and even though they have never been suggestive or flirtatious or anything. H is good with the children and loves them very much.

I work full time and commute quite a long distance. H was made redundant 10 years ago when I was on mat leave with child 2 and has not applied for, or had a job since. He is trying to become an artist and he has stayed at home with the children, 2nd of which has been at school for over 5 years now. I have tried to support him with the art, but although he has the skills and talent, I don't think he works hard enough to achieve success in this difficult field. He finds excuses not to work, spends a lot of time on the computer on FB etc, he often has illnesses like headaches or mild colds etc. He is taking anti-depressants. I have quite a good job, but still with just one salary, we don't have the lifestyle that, H, in particular, would like.

I told him this morning that I'd had enough. The thing with his cousin was hurtful but not the only problem. Strangely, this morning when he said how much he loves me it sounded truthful, unlike some of the other things "I'll change, we'll make a team again..." but I don't think I feel the same. I really don't want to hurt the children. I told H this that I think he takes advantage of the fact that he knows I don't want to leave the kids, or for him to have to leave them. We are good friends as well as partners but although I still like H, and still fancy him enough, in an ideal world I wouldn't want to be married to him now. I frequently fantasize about being single. I don't lack guts or motivation and I'm very independent. What's stopping me is that I but don't want to make a huge mistake as far as splitting up the children from either myself or their dad. I want to know what to do next. I don't know what to believe and I don't know what to do. What are my options? Thanks for reading this long post!

OP posts:
Rowtheboatashore · 05/10/2011 11:28

You're right Izzy, thanks. Seeing the therapist today, which I'm really looking forward to. Also, had a brainwave last night after seeing your post. Worked out a list of rules/conditions. Include, applying for and getting a job (evidence required), specified maintenance jobs in house in the meantime, daily account of what he's been doing, details of any meetings with other people, no overnights unless with me and/or kids, that all hobbies (including art) should only be done in evenings or weekends by arrangement, strict limits on computer and phone use, rules on going out and behaviour when we're out, ban on any personal comments made to me about my appearance, fitness etc. He said I was being harsh but agreed to everything (of course). I said that I had always assumed many of these to be unwritten rules, but that I had no option now but to make them explicit.

My thinking now is to sort out my head separately with therapist. H makes much-needed improvements to the house (which would be needed to sell it, if it comes to that and gives him something tangible/useful to me to do until job is acquired). He gets some kind of income, which will be better all round again in all eventualities. Also, I get some time and space both to think and make any arrangements.

I also gave him one more chance to tell full truth but I'm banging my head against the wall with that one. I told him that if he decides to tell the truth at any point then that would be better for him and that given he is unwilling to do that, we are not wiping the slate clean, but are progressing on the basis that I still believe that he withholding truths from me and therefore can't trust him.

He asked if there is any emotional aspect to our relationship. I told him that my conditions are the absolute minimum that I require. I said that up until last night I couldn't see any option that included us staying together, but that as I am concerned about splitting up the family, I have proposed this as the one option that has any chance of avoiding that. Not willing to discuss anything beyond that and no promise of emotional involvement, including no sex or physical contact until further notice. Also gave him the option of not accepting my rules (i.e. progress straight to break up), but made it clear there was no room for negotiation. Will be interesting to see what happens next.

elastamum · 05/10/2011 11:41

Good for you. But do you REALLY want to stay with this self entitled, lazy, unfaithful, manchild? It sounds like you are in danger of becoming his parent?

turquoisetumble · 05/10/2011 12:01

Good luck OP.

Sorry to keep coming back to me, but my husband has cried and begged and sworn there was nothing else for me to know (all lies). I also gave him the 'one last chance to tell me all' ultimatum. He still didn't, but pretended he had. He told me what he thought I could find out (watered down).

He is being amazingly 'good' to me too - brings me cups of tea, asks me about my day, talks about the future. Funny that.

elastamum · 05/10/2011 12:04

I had one of these. Lied all the time until I finally caught him out bigtime so there was no way round the truth. Now happily divorced Hmm

Rowtheboatashore · 05/10/2011 12:14

Thanks both. Elastamum - have been his parent for years. I don't see another way of forcing him to do something useful and if I'm paying for it all, it might as well be delivering some value. Turquoise - I don't believe for a second that there is nothing else to know and I have told H this. I can't physically force him to tell the whole truth and I don't have any more firm evidence. I've told him that I'm basing all decisions on my on-going assumption that he's still lying. Turquoise - why are you still with your husband? I thought it was because it's not convenient to leave just yet? Prob same for me. I admit I do have some remaining doubts about leaving so I'm buying myself some time. I'm going to sort those out with therapist rather than falling into the old trap of divulging my feelings, fears, hopes etc with H. But also I'll be better of in any eventuality if H has fixed the kitchen wall, mended the rowan pipes...blah blah blah and if he has some form of financial support for himself. Even if he gets a job and starts being unfaithful (which I've feared happening in the past) at least the family will be financially slightly better off for it and I'll have a very slightly cheaper time getting rid when the time comes.

turquoisetumble · 05/10/2011 13:03

Yes - I am going to leave, but there are very substantial reasons (can't say too much) why it will be better for me to do that at a later date (next year).
I am now so detached from my husband, that I have no problem living with him simply as a co-parent. No anger/bitterness/depression. If however, that changes, I will leave immediately. My own mental well being is my most important priority now.

There is absolutely no rule that says you have to leave immediately and I think you are very wise to consider long term consequences/plans. However, I am glad you are seeing a therapist - and I agree that you are better divulging your doubts and fears to him/her rather than your H. My H profitted so often from the fact that I tried to have an honest and respectful relationship with him - to share and discuss our issues. He parroted the lines I wanted him to say and used the information about my insecurities/weaknesses against me and to cover his tracks.

Therapy really helped me, but my one piece of advice is to make sure you have a warm relationship with the counsellor. If you don't connect after a couple of sessions, don't feel pressured into staying. You will have to face difficult issues in therapy and things may seem worse for a while - so it's important that you do that with someone who you feel has empathy for you and who you actually like.

Rowtheboatashore · 05/10/2011 13:15

Thanks so much for sharing this - your honesty about your experience has been influential in my thinking - it's a cautionary tale for me but you've been really careful to say that it's only one experience. I think you have been really unhappy and I'm sorry. I get the impression that you are working towards a better future though and are taking control - I wish you lots of luck and strength to carry that through. Thanks for the advice on therapy. I've never tried it before (prob should have done!). It's with a woman, who sounds very nice on the phone so I'm quite hopeful although I'm not great at sharing emotional stuff out loud (better at writing, hence all the posts here!)

Rowtheboatashore · 05/10/2011 15:03

Blimey, H has update his CV, applied for a job and drawn up a list of maintenance jobs in the house, that he's planning to do. Don't worry I'm not going to let the pressure off or my guard down. Watch this space...!

Rowtheboatashore · 12/10/2011 23:27

I am just writing here to update on how things are progressing. I have started therapy to help work out how to deal with this. Also, the "list" seems to be working so far, albeit very early days. H says he has realised how much is at stake. Whether genuine or not and whether this will last or not, he is certainly making a much bigger effort at the moment. He's been getting up at the same time as me every day and making me coffee and toast, being very attentive and thoughtful, has applied for several jobs and is working through a list of home improvements. We are getting on great as a family. Still taking it slow as far as physical relationship and I'm still struggling to come to terms with both the betrayal of fidelity and the thought of how I could have been such a mug and how he could have been such an arsehole. But, what started as a route to working on a good way to split might have now introduced a possible option to stay together. At the very least it's making working towards more emotional independence on my part and less financial dependence on his more enjoyable day to day. Working with the therapist on avoiding being the "mum" to H and I'll see how that works too. And also much more honesty and openness with H. I'm away with work for two nights now and H is terrified that I'm going to get my own back on him by sleeping with a colleague. If only it were that simple and that would put even everything out..err...no!

NettleTea · 14/10/2011 11:10

no harm in letting him worry though!!

maleview70 · 14/10/2011 11:27

Ill bet he doesnt want to split up. Who would when you can sit on your arse earning nothing all day whilst your hard working wife goers out to provide for the family.

He is Lazy and he is cheating. A man can still be a great dad without being a great husband. Splitting up does not need to change that.

Rowtheboatashore · 28/10/2011 17:40

New developments include job applications and success with a gallery accepting work from DH. DH is working hard in the house and seems to be taking some steps to put his life in order. I'm really angry though when I think about things. He wants to put all this behind us and move on. I want to make the right choices for me, with reasonable time and space to do that. Not really practical to move out or to ask him to move out until/unless ready to make big changes as I work quite a way from where we live and I don't want to leave DCs, who are at school locally to home of course and he is still, currently, primary care-giver for kids after school. It's all convincing from him and I do think he's had a shock at just how seriously this has affected me (and subsequently him). We are talking more now about what's been wrong in our relationship and we are at a better place in terms of negotiating different aspects but my doubts are still there - both in terms of putting anything behind me and moving on; and what if/when it happens again.

toptramp · 28/10/2011 23:13

Hmmmmm. I would be careful. Yes he has some work coming into a gallery but what about him getting a proper job with a regular, predictable wage aswell as this arty farty hobby of his?
Are you really prepared to forgive him? Sounds like he's sucked you back in but it depends how much you want this "relationship" to work.

Of course he wants you to put the past behind you. How convenient of him. He wants to have his cake. He won't change op and deep down you know this. Do you really want this cheater?

toptramp · 28/10/2011 23:14

If you do want to save this he does have to stick to his changes etc.

Rowtheboatashore · 29/10/2011 09:00

Yes, been sucked back in to an extent. But still all options open. I'm taking some time. Keep in mind that while I wouldn't think twice about leaving DH, I do not want to leave my DC. He has been SAHD and would prob continue to be as I work 35 miles away from home. Family life is good despite trust being erased. Value of commission from paintings (if they sell) is more than he would get from regular job as he's been out of the workforce for so long he'd be looking at min wage type roles now.

moonshineandspellbooks · 29/10/2011 09:30

Rowtheboat I hope this isn't taking too much out of you and that you choose a path that is in your best interests.

I think it may be helpful to keep two things in mind at all times when dealing with your H.

  1. The real measure of 'truth' is the complete absence of lies/evasions and the willingness to accept 100% of responsibility without excuses. It's easy for people to apologise and say it will never happen again. It's easy to inject sincerity into this too. Only if you feel he is being 100% open and honest about absolutely everything should you feel he has really stepped up and accepted responsibility. If you think he is hiding anything he has not reached this stage and his apologies/promises of change are false. Trying to spare your feelings is the excuse he would probably give if found out, but it is an excuse, and he would undoubtedly slip again. (It's quite possible for him to believe in his own sincerity at this stage if he's not particularly self-aware, but that won't alter his inability to live up to it.)
  1. Respect is a fundamental part of love. IME once respect disappears from a relationship, love follows soon after. If you cannot respect your H then no matter how hard you try or how much you want it to, this marriage won't work. You may stick it out for years but you will wake up one day practically hating him and possibly yourself for putting up with it so long. It's very, very hard to win back respect once it's gone, but it can be done. If you really want to make this marriage work, I suggest you set conditions on his behaviour beyond his being faithful (since as you're in a monogamous relationship that you both signed up to that should be a given, not a gratefully accepted concession). What would it take for him to earn back your respect? Don't be too worried about asking for too much. If you think you may be, ask yourself whether you would do that for the sake of your marriage. If you would be, then the fact he won't probably speaks for itself.

I really hope he steps up or, if he doesn't, that you find the strength to do what's necessary. Either way, I wish you the best of luck.

Rowtheboatashore · 01/11/2011 17:31

Thanks for the advice again. Moonshine this is taking it out on me a bit. I'm seeing the therapist and trying to look after myself, but finding it very difficult to deal with. H is acting impeccably almost all the time but that in itself is strange and probably not sustainable. We do get on very well when we are together but it's the dread that I feel that I still don't know everything and that it's only a matter of time before things deteriorate. He's doing everything to try to do what I want now, but I wonder why it's taken all this and I wonder what will happen if I let him think anything is near being "back to normal" even if that is a new "normal". I considered contacting another woman yesterday that I think might have had a thing with him some time ago. But I thought she would probably lie anyway if there was something going on with them or if I've got that one wrong it might cause other problems. I do think he's had a kick up the arse now and a shock. The future that he sets out for us is attractive in some ways, yes..but realistic? I don't know. Still dreaming about leaving but still also enjoying being together as a family and all being great when I don't think about the reality underlying it all. Therapist says that we should go for couple therapy and that there is still a lot of love. Sometimes I think there is and sometimes I think that I still love the person that I thought I was married to (with faults) but that the new person (with the lying and deception) is capable of saying all the right things, even doing all the right things with me, but who knows what else when I'm not around. Has anyone managed to work this kind of thing out successfully. I know that time can heal many things but wonder if time can help me forgive, or if I should even think about forgiving.

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