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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

What are my options if I don't want to break up the family?

67 replies

EmilyBarton · 30/09/2011 15:55

A few months back I found that H had been instant messaging a woman on Facebook that he knew from school days. At first I noticed she cropped up on posts quite a lot but thought it was just old friends catching up. Then saw exchanges on chat and these included pages and pages of kisses and "I love you" "I love you too" etc from both sides. I approached H and he said that some months earlier he had arranged to meet this woman while we were staying with his in-laws. He said that they kissed (but not French kissed) at the end of the meeting and acknowledged that they had "a moment". He also said that after this they discussed (presumably via chat) that they could do something about it but decided not to. She is married and also with children.

He said that they hadn't met again and had agreed to be friends. However, FB activity was quite frequent, including her posting on pictures of my kids and joining a page that I set up with H. When I raised objections to the content of the chat he said it was "two old friends being affectionate", he was drunk and it didn't mean anything. By the way, this is someone that I have never met or heard of in 15 years of being together. It hurt even more because the evening in question, he'd said to me to go and get something sexy on and he'd be through in a few minutes.

I had also found a till receipt for purchase of two cups of coffee on a day when H had got a lift with me to a meeting . I quite innocently asked him if he'd met up with someone (it was before I found out about the other stuff). He explained it by saying that there was a mix-up at the till. I later I found out that he had met up with another former school pal and had written her FB messages that were more innocent, but mentioning that her eyes looked stunning in a photo. There was another occasion when he shared a hotel room with a female friend and told me he was sharing with his male friend and that he felt he had to because I wouldn't have understood that she's just an old friend (I do think that's true, despite suspicions in the past).

He was extremely remorseful when I approached him about all this. He told me about the meeting and kiss voluntarily but swore that there is no more to know. I have told him that I don't believe that. He acknowledges that and that it will take time to build any trust in the relationship again.

Yesterday we were at a funeral of one of his relatives. Back at my in-laws house, where we were having refreshments, H made a beeline for his second cousin and talked to her for most of the event. I noticed that he was flirtatious (her partner was not present) but didn't worry as all were family etc. However, I went through and he was bending down, stroking her leg and when he saw me he said "oh no, there's [myname]". H claims that he does not remember saying that, although he remembers taking some interest in this lady's legs because they were talking about running (which was true, I had been involved in part of that conversation earlier in the evening).

H says that he loves me and we have a reasonable sex life. I am slimmer and more attractive now than when we met, something that he often compliments me on but he can also be quite hurtful as far as personal comments. He can be attentive and affectionate. We also share a sense of humour and have fun together still, particularly at home. H is charismatic and funny. He can also be quite negative, has a short fuse (but is never physically abusive) and very critical of others. He can be very rude to his parents and other people close to him too (but really nice to strangers...so odd) but we all put up with it and let him away with it as he's good at apologising. He would definitely not think that behaviour described above is acceptable for others. He often describes other men as being creeps and he reacts when I get comments made by my male Facebook friends, even if they are joint friends of ours, my brother in law etc and even though they have never been suggestive or flirtatious or anything. H is good with the children and loves them very much.

I work full time and commute quite a long distance. H was made redundant 10 years ago when I was on mat leave with child 2 and has not applied for, or had a job since. He is trying to become an artist and he has stayed at home with the children, 2nd of which has been at school for over 5 years now. I have tried to support him with the art, but although he has the skills and talent, I don't think he works hard enough to achieve success in this difficult field. He finds excuses not to work, spends a lot of time on the computer on FB etc, he often has illnesses like headaches or mild colds etc. He is taking anti-depressants. I have quite a good job, but still with just one salary, we don't have the lifestyle that, H, in particular, would like.

I told him this morning that I'd had enough. The thing with his cousin was hurtful but not the only problem. Strangely, this morning when he said how much he loves me it sounded truthful, unlike some of the other things "I'll change, we'll make a team again..." but I don't think I feel the same. I really don't want to hurt the children. I told H this that I think he takes advantage of the fact that he knows I don't want to leave the kids, or for him to have to leave them. We are good friends as well as partners but although I still like H, and still fancy him enough, in an ideal world I wouldn't want to be married to him now. I frequently fantasize about being single. I don't lack guts or motivation and I'm very independent. What's stopping me is that I but don't want to make a huge mistake as far as splitting up the children from either myself or their dad. I want to know what to do next. I don't know what to believe and I don't know what to do. What are my options? Thanks for reading this long post!

OP posts:
MajorB · 30/09/2011 22:41

Partners can definitely "get over" an affair, physical or emotional, and sometimes come out of it as a stronger couple BUT both parties have to be willing to really work at the relationship, AND the hurt of being cheated on can't have flipped that switch inside you from "loving someone" to "off".

If, for example, you gave your H 2 weeks to get his sh*t together, and in that 2 weeks he deleted his facebook account and his prescence on any other chat site where he normally flirts with women, got himself a job (part time or otherwise), took a stronger role in domestic chores, and started really woo-ing you again, in an effort to be the man you want and deserve in your life, would that make you happy? Or do you feel it's gone on so long now that you're actually switched off from him, and though your head would say "go with it", your heart really wouldn't be in it?

Be honest with yourself, in that best-case scenario would you still trust him?

Because if you wouldn't (& let's be honest that best case is probably more wishful thinking) should you be wasting any more time with him?

Answer that question honestly and your decision is made.

ChippingIn · 30/09/2011 22:53

For a relationship to recover after an affair the person who had the affair needs to 'own' it and take full responsibility for it (not blame the other person in any way) and you both need to be committed to building a new relationship and frankly, from what you have said, there's no way he'd do this.

We all have to make our own decisions - all I can say is I would not being living with this lying cheating bastard for one more day. He's not a good Dad because he is not showing any respect to his childrens mother. He can be as good a parent as he is now whether he lives with them or he doesn't.

... or what majorb said :)

Wisedupwoman · 30/09/2011 23:24

I read this post earlier and couldn't respond. It sounded so messy and confusing. But I guess that's how your H's behaviour was, no? Not quite the 'full monty' with living proof of a full blown affair but also way, way beyond what I guess your wedding vows committed you both to?

Any way, I read what he does quite blatantly in front of you and I felt quite nauseous. I wish I had posted here at the point you are doing.

Trust what Chippingin says. She knows.

Proudnscary · 01/10/2011 08:04

I think your husband sounds selfish, manipulative, immature and untrustworthy.
He also sounds rather cruel.
And that he is regularly looking for sex outside of your marriage.
Sorry.
As for where you go from here, I am very big on keeping families together if at all possible. But as chippingin says, to move on he has to take full, honest responsibility and be prepared for hard work and big changes in the relationship.
Can he do that?
Are you prepared for that?
I too would suggest you go for counselling on your own as a starting point.

Rowtheboatashore · 01/10/2011 08:06

The decision is harder because he is the stay at home parent. The children go to school near where we live. I work 35 miles away. It's not logistically (or probably legally if/when it comes to it) as straightforward as leaving with the children. I think it would be difficult for anyone to question my commitment to my family and the quality of time I spend with them in evenings/weekends, I still think that courts would favour kids staying with their father as he's always been at home with them and as it's less disruption. I'm possibly looking at a scenario where I have to see a lot less of my children, who I am totally devoted to (hence a good reason to still be here so far).

solidgoldbrass · 01/10/2011 12:06

This man is fundamentally selfish and doesn't really consider women to be human. You exist for his benefit and because he is The Man Of The House he feels entitled to do what he likes. He also thinks he's 'special' because he's an Artist (has he ever made any money from his art?).
Basically you either have to accept him for what he is, or leave him, because he isn't going to change. He doesn't want to change.

ImperialBlether · 01/10/2011 12:45

He is absolutely selfish - everything he does is for himself. His disapproval of others made me gasp - he is absolutely dreadful himself, so who is he to judge?

OP, he doesn't work, he's not faithful, he's selfish. You work full time. In your spare time you have to worry about what this idiot is getting up to.

His offering to get a part time job is just the cherry on the cake. What was wrong with him doing that years ago? Why part time? Why shouldn't he work full time?

God, I'm so angry at this man and at you, too, OP, for putting up with him. You have enabled him all these years.

tadpoles · 01/10/2011 12:57

'He can also be quite negative, has a short fuse (but is never physically abusive) and very critical of others. He can be very rude to his parents and other people close to him too (but really nice to strangers...so odd) but we all put up with it and let him away with it as he's good at apologising. He would definitely not think that behaviour described above is acceptable for others. He often describes other men as being creeps and he reacts when I get comments made by my male Facebook friends, even if they are joint friends of ours, my brother in law etc and even though they have never been suggestive or flirtatious or anything.'

That's the stuff that would bother me even more than the other stuff - although its incredibly arrogant/hypocritical of him to flirt so much with other women in front of you and then not be able to deal with you receiving any male attention.

'we don't have the lifestyle that, H, in particular, would like.' Has it occurred to him that in order to have the type of lifestyle that he would like, it might help to get a job which earns a reasonable amount of money? What is he expecting - a crock of gold at the end of the rainbow? He does sound very immature.

Guess it depends on how imporant it is for you to try to keep the family unit togther and the degree to which you are prepared to ignore or overlook his behaviour. He sounds as though he is unlikely to change so endless ultimatums are unlikely to be successful. Maybe just bide your time like turquoise, get your ducks lined up in a row as they say, and then, when and if you are ready, decide whether you want a future with him.

ImperialBlether · 01/10/2011 14:15

Yes, that bit about not having the lifestyle he would like really got to me. You'd get off on a murder charge if the jury heard he'd said that, OP.

Lizzabadger · 01/10/2011 14:17

While I think this man sounds like a complete knobber I do object to the posts saying he should get a full-time job. He is the parent who stays at home to look after the kids and you wouldn't say this if he were female (sorry to trot out the old reverse-the-genders cliche).

Rowtheboatashore · 02/10/2011 02:51

Lizzabadger - I actually agree with you to some extent but my son in in sixth year of school now. H could have his act together with some paid work by now (I think a lot of women in similar position to us these days find they need to work at least p/t too).

He's finally fully admitted today that he had an "inappropriate relationship that was 99% online" but he has sworn on the children's lives that he's not had sex with anyone and that there is not any more for me to know. I'm still not buying it tbh although I'm surprised he would swear on the kids lives because he's quite superstitious. He also apologised for flirting outrageously on numerous occasions and for hurting me with this. He says that he was massaging his ego and it hasn't ever gone any further. Again, not sure I believe this. He said that he'll do anything. I have suggested taking some time to think through our options and possible plans. Had a nice afternoon as it was my daughter's birthday party. That made all this seem more upsetting later on though - everyone seemed so happy. Thanks for all your messages - I'm so pleased to get them, not least as they help me to see that I'm not being paranoid, over-reacting or alone. I would say that if it was as straightforward as it seems then I'd be off...but life and relationships are not usually quite that clear cut! Thanks

solidgoldbrass · 02/10/2011 02:57

I'm afraid he's going to whine and cry and make promises just until you agree to give him another chance. Then he will carry on sniffing round after other women and wanking with his paintbox, because he's 'rebooted' you and thinks you will carry on providing normal service.

Rowtheboatashore · 02/10/2011 03:13

solidgoldbrass - you know, I think you might be right. I have said that I can't think about having a relationship with him until he has a realistic and detailed plan of action. His promises are all "I'll do anything for you, everything I do for years will be to make you happy". I've told him that's worth nothing. Spent most of the day, both of us, cleaning the house. So at least the house is cleaner than it's been in months! Enjoying many cups of tea, and he made lunch, couldn't do enough. Forgot to mention though, the idiot managed to twist his ankle really badly this evening (he is also accident prone). I almost thought he might have done it deliberately but it's swollen like an apple under his skin so definitely a real injury. I went as far as fetching a bag of frozen peas for him and I did offer to take him to casualty but he said he couldn't face Saturday night in A&E. So he's night 2 on the sofa, now with poorly leg.

SheCutOffTheirTails · 02/10/2011 03:16

Unfaithful men often swear on their children's lives when they are lying.

It's extraordinary.

I also don't think that someone who is at home because they are too lazy to get a job counts as a SAHP. You only get to be a SAHP with the full agreement of the other parent who is paying your way.

Deciding to be an "artist" and doing fuck all art all day is not being a SAHP, it's being a sponger.

Rowtheboatashore · 02/10/2011 03:22

He's a bit of both, tbh. He is good with the kids a lot of the time and he does take them to most of the clubs etc when I'm still at work. But definitely, often not too much to show at all for activity during the school day. I think you're right about swearing on kids lives...he was crying when he said that so possibly also had his fingers crossed or some nonsense. I don't know what to believe though.

Rowtheboatashore · 02/10/2011 09:25

I have been up most of the night and it's been amazing - why didn't I read all this before? I made so many assumptions about how I would lose the kids because he's been at home with them, how he would continue to be financially dependent outside as well as in the marriage. From what I've read I seem to be in a much better position than I ever thought with regards all of these. I live in Scotland and Scottish law seems to make things a bit more straightforward too. I am feeling so much more empowered. So, now I know i have proper choices, none easy, but at least I'm starting to understand the choices. Somehow I assumed that I'd be stuck with this guy one way or another either in or out of marriage. But I do actually have a choice. Sorry if people have been frustrated with my naivety here - I am usually quite an intelligent and successful person. It's been great to see this all written down. I read back my own posts objectively and think - that woman is an f'ing idiot! Hoorah!!

buzzskillington · 02/10/2011 10:05

Oh I'm so glad that you've looked into it and you have more choice than you thought Grin. I really am.

Rowtheboatashore · 02/10/2011 23:10

Thanks! I'm not so upbeat now as I was this morning however...there are options I think. H has been dream husband all day - breakfast in bed, cups of tea, took DD to tennnis etc. However, more and more instances keep coming to mind when he has disrespected me. I think I'll make a list just so I can remind myself anytime that I'm wavering. I'm taking time now, going to play cards closer to my chest, get the info and advice I need, make a plan and then execute it. There's no rush now that I'm taking control of this. I think he thinks I'm on the point of forgiveness because I've calmed down. But I'm miles from it. This chat room is so helpful - thank you!!

Rowtheboatashore · 04/10/2011 12:47

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

izzywhizzyletsgetbusy · 04/10/2011 13:49

Somewhere in your post I read that he told you that there is not any more for me to know. Not exactly being honest, was he? As you know now, there is a lot more to be discovered - including names and pack drill relating to all of the women he's been playing around with either in virtual realtiy or real life or in his dreams.

If he's truly remorseful, he'll be only too willing to make a full and frank confession and/or answer all and any questions you have.

For me, that means he still isn't admitting or facing up to anything You're spot on. What he's admitted to is the tip of the iceberg - but in his case he hasn't fully admitted to the one third that is visible above the waves.

This man has such a sense of entitlement that he hasn't even begun to admit to himself that he's taken advantage, made a mug out of you, and thoroughly disrespected his marriage vows - because what he's been doing has become second nature to him.

I think some of the signs of a physical affair might be missing actually They're only missing because you haven't found them yet but, rest assured, they're there and, in time, all will be revealed.

He worked hard on the art all day yesterday Commendable - probably the first day's 'work' he's done for years but it hasn't paid one cent towards his upkeep or that of his dc, has it?

He's starting to push quite hard for a "decision" of sorts Of course he is. He's anxious to resume his nefarious activities with other women on or off his computer - in fact, like any addict who's denied their fix, he's probably suffering from withdrawal symptoms.

If you 'forgive' this man, he'll take your forgiveness as a blessing. He'll see it as a sign that he can relax and resume his half-life as a single gentleman of leisure, free to please himself and pursue other women.

he doesn't like keeping up a pretense The only pretense he'll find difficult to keep up is playing the reformed husband; pulling his weight around the house, earning his keep, making good on his promises to get a job and ceasing his infidelities - whether they be emotional or physical.

Is there any chance of reviving this relationship? Only if he's prepared to face up to what he's done and what he's doing and make the necessary changes. Frankly, I wouldn't put money on it but you're in with a chance because he has a lot more to lose from divorce than you do.

Counselling will help you articulate your thoughts, and looking at your marriage in a detached and analytical manner will help you know where you've gone wrong (probably you've been far too tolerant and anxious to please) and weigh up whether you want to remain with an untrustworthy man.

At the moment, you've firmly in charge of the rod and the worm you're married to is squirming on the hook. I see no need to take him off for some months, if ever, do you?

vezzie · 04/10/2011 14:02

OP, you said that you are now slimmer and more attractive then you were when you got married. Do you think that your husband might have always taken it for granted that you would consider him such a catch, you'd always be on the back foot?

It really sounds like you aren't now. Well done. Good luck.

Rowtheboatashore · 04/10/2011 14:05

Thank you. I didn't mention that he has suspended his Facebook account. I had to laugh really because he put out this big announcement about midday on FB with a forwarding email and some kind of half-arsed confession that he had a lot of work to do and an addictive personality (along with my many other faults). When I came back a bit earlier than he expected he was on FB rather than working, which he said he'd be doing. He said that he was just seeing how his friends had reacted. He also said that he was a bit disappointed that only two people had commented on his leaving FB (actually it was 4 but two of those were women who he didn't mention). Later after he went through to go to sleep (on the sofa again) I walked past the door and he was on FB. I just walked in and he said "oh i was just deactivating my account, I had to reply to the people who were saying goodbye to me first". This is pathetic isn't it? Writing this is so therapeutic - I am reading this thinking again "that woman is an f'ing idiot"

Rowtheboatashore · 04/10/2011 14:32

Vezzie - yes - I think so in some ways. Although he's also got more insecure as I get more attention from guys now or comments from people - basically cos I'm slim and have quite good dress sense. Also when we met I was at a low point in my life - my mother was just about to die of cancer and when she died I was devastated. Now I realise that I had a problem with that - I couldn't even talk about it for 5 years but as I had no reference point I thought that was normal. We had a baby very early - I got pregnant less than a year after we met. TBH I was a fool. I wanted a baby much more than a man but somehow ended up with both. I was young, and stupid and actually over time things got better between us. I ended up getting my act together, building a good career and we've enjoyed ourselves in many ways. We have also worked as a team, been through a lot together (including several other very difficult bereavements) and also do genuinely share a lot - I'd sometimes say that we are best friends, we have great fun together, we still have pretty good sex - all that. All that as well as two amazing kids - they really are fantastic.

Rowtheboatashore · 04/10/2011 15:08

I withdrew the post that Izzy was commenting on because I felt that it might contain too much detail that might identify myself in case DH or others we know read this. Izzy's interpretation is spot on anyway. Thank you!

izzywhizzyletsgetbusy · 04/10/2011 17:58

I am reading this thinking again "that woman is an f'ing idiot" I hope you're beginning to realise that this is what he thinks of you, and the reason why he thinks it is because you've allowed him to get away with so much for so long.

And now he's claiming that he has an addictive personality? Trust me on this, the only thing he's addicted to is self-gratification at the expense of others.

Make no mistake; he's been dick-led for years and he'd have walked away from you without a backward glance if he'd found another woman stupid enough to let him get away with more than you have.

Seems to me the scales are finally dropping from your eyes and you're beginning to see him for he truly is - an asshole. And now it's time to kick his sorry ass into touch or out of your life.

Personally, I think he deserves a damn good kicking. If you're prepared to spend the foreseeable future on what may be wasted effort, keep up the good work and don't stop until you're convinced that you've rearranged his posterior and his interior to your satisfaction.