playing house, but will he marry me?

[iwanttohelp]

Met DP 3 years ago, lived together for 2. He has two children from his previous marriage (15 years) and I have a dd myself.

He had just finished an awful divorce when we met, but things went along nicely.

We now live together, I'm step mum (as such) to his kids and its gone pretty ok.

We've always talked about marriage, and we've both always been keen, likewise another child between us.

Lately I feel like I've shot myself in the foot. DP happy to try for a baby, but seems weird over marriage.

Now when it comes up I get "well I want enough money to do it properly, get you a nice ring and have a nice wedding, so I can't do that yet". I was expecting to be engaged by now tbh, and we're not.

We had a row over it today, where I snapped and said you. Can't ask someone to look after your kids, look after the house and be a "wife" yet not actually marry them! I told him that there isn't an infinite amount of time I will wait.

He is apparently disappointed that I'm being like that, says he mustnt be pressured, and if I'm going to issue ultimatums I will wait forever. It feels a bit like put up or fuck off at the moment.

I feel he has no need to marry me, after all, he has the wife now, without the risk of a divorce again. I want to get married.

I don't know if I'm being too pushy, or if he is just taking the piss. I know he loves me, but is this on his terms?

His divorce ( which was not to do with me) crippled him financially, so maybe the money aspect is true, but I don't like the whole I'll do it if I want to aspect of the discussion. We have a home, a life, step children and he wants another ffs! So why NOT marry me?
Sorry if reads odd, trying to do this on my phone.

That's great TheBride but that doesn't apply in lots of situations and all those rights can be arranged/conferred in other ways.

Seems to me in a situation where you're unhappy with domestic drudgery and lack of consideration of your wants and needs, the last thing you should do is buy in to an institution that is based on just those things.

What exactly would getting married change? 'Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free' - well how about because you love the cow and want it in your life and don't give much of a stuff about the milk.

Does he think you want a big wedding? Did you ever say anything to make him think that?
I didn't have an engagement ring, the wedding ring was a family one and the marriage ceremony cost a couple of hundred, so it doesn't have to be a financial drain.....if, on the other hand, he doesn't want to marry you, why is he saying he wants to get you the nice ring and wedding and do it properly? Do you think that's just an excuse to put it off? Bit confused here, sorry not much help.

In what way is marriage based on drudgery and lack of consideration?

Is that part of marriage law?

Or just some bollocks you made up?

In fact, it is male-female relationships in general that can tend to women being drudges who are treated with a lack of consideration.

At least the women who are married can leave their life of drudgery with some small measure of financial security, particularly if they work part time (as the OP does).

I think I can sympathise with him - but then I've never really "got" the whole marriage thing and am not at all bothered about ever getting married myself. To me, if he's said he wants to have a child with you then that is the biggest possible commitment anyone can make that they want to spend the rest of their lives with you. What exactly do you therefore think he's trying to wriggle out of? A financial commitment?

Otherwise, it just seems like he doesn't want to get married again until he can afford a proper wedding. Which seems fair enough since as far as I can make out, the whole "big shebang" thing seems to be one of the main reasons to get married anyway...

"if he's said he wants to have a child with you then that is the biggest possible commitment anyone can make that they want to spend the rest of their lives with you."

:o

Really?

People try to have babies together for all kinds of crazy reasons.

In this case I suspect it's because he wants something concrete to tie his skivvy to him without having to make any kind of financial commitment.

"the whole "big shebang" thing seems to be one of the main reasons to get married anyway..."

No, it really, really isn't.

Well, my original post said "To me that is the biggest possible commitment anyone can make that they want to spend the rest of their lives with you". I'm not trying to make sweeping statements here about The Way Things Are. Obviously I can well believe there are different points of view, but from my own personal experience the decision to have a baby implies more commitment than the decision to get married.

I suppose partly what I'm thinking about is the fact that once you have a baby together, your lives are generally entangled together forever or at least for the next 20 years or so. If you get married and don't have children, you can get divorced again a year later and never have to see each other or be involved with each other ever again.

The financial side, especially for SAHMs I totally accept is a different kettle of fish. Which is why I asked about whether essentially the OP's concerns are based on financial stuff - because to me, this is the one reason I can understand you'd be pissed off if someone didn't want to marry you, if they were trying to get out of formally acknowledging your long-term financial rights as a SAHM. But if this isn't the main/only issue for OP - which it doesn't particularly seem to be from her post - then maybe there is just a clash of ideology. Especially as the DP has been through a horrible divorce - maybe this has put him off the idea of marriage or made him think that if he's made those promises once and not kept them, what's the point of doing it again?

SheCutOffTheir Tails -

Fair enough, maybe she's not happy.

My point was - how is getting married going to change the fact that she's not happy about the balance of labour and her partner's attitude?

If you want to be married, then that is what you want. He either does or doesn't. But don't, don't have a child with someone with this issue hanging over both of you.

It doesn't matter what the issue is.

There are plenty, plenty of men to whom marriage is not a stumbling block. If this is for you, then FGS, MOVE ON and find someone for whom it is not before you throw away the pills.

Some people will say, 'Marriage is just a piece of paper', and maybe it is, but then, so is a will, a deed or a DNR.

Maybe such people have put other legal parameters in place to protect themselves and their children in case their partner dies suddenly or becomes incapacitated either temporarily or permanently, and again, that is their business.

I've been divorced twice, both times with no children. I wasn't willing to have children with a person to whom I was not married. So I found someone who felt similarly.

Despite how much I loved the man or whatever, I'd never have gone so far as living with him and making a life with him if that weren't clear.

I guess I don't understand people who do the same way I don't understand people who stay with some person with whom they are having shite sex long-term or who are royal titwanks with regards to money.

Seems to me easier to break it off before you chuck out the pills and condoms.

Seems like a lot of women are conditioned to play nicey nice and compromise fundamental values they hold and again, I don't know where they get it.

I remember over summer holidays watching an episode of 'Dinner Date' where the man chose a winning contestant to go on a second date and that contestant declining.

My own daughter, age 8, proclaimed, 'That's not very nice.'

I corrected her emphatically. No one is under an obligation, EVER, to go out with someone to whom they are not attracted, most certainly not! Why on Earth would you waste either of your time? It's not doing anyone any favours, least of all yourself, and let's face it, when you've not got ties like children, that's the time to call it.

I think too many women get roped into going further in relationships in which they are fundamentally incompatible with the other person, under the pretext of playing nice or giving it another chance, when really they should have just let it go at the dating stage and found someone with whom they shared more similar values and goals.

And don't get me started on that 'the one' and 'soulmates' drivel!

I recognise I have not read the full thread, but after going through a years long contentious divorce process, I understand your partner not wanting to re marry... I don't.

HOWEVER, I wouldn't, in a million years, consider having children with a man I was not married to. I didn't think like that before divorce, I learned through it that the only protection DS and I had to ensure we were not put on the street empty handed was the wedding certificate.

Pre nuptials are not recognised by courts in this country, there is no such thing as a common law wife. You can bear him children, raise them, be his PA/cook/etc, pay into the mortgage of his house for 40 years, and the day that you split, for all your effort, you get... nothing.

Obviously, court will take care of the children, and "force" non resident parent to pay between 1-15% of his salary after taxes to support their children, but children grow up, so you end up in a very bad place anyway after a number of years.

So my suggestion is, if he doesn't want to marry, don't have children with him.

I don't really get the conflation between being a 'wife' and doing everything at home. If you are unhappy with doing everything at home (and I totally see that you might be) then stop. And don't tell yourself it's your fault either!

If you are not happy with how things are right now, then why are you wanting to get married in any case? Surely the primary reason to get married is because you love the other person, want the world to know and want to be with them forever. I understand the financial security aspect, but I think that is a very bad reason to get married, and whilst there are little to no assurances if you aren't married, there's no guarantee that if you do get married and then break up you will get loads of money either, unless the person you are getting divorced from is fairly wealthy and you can demonstrate that s/he somehow owes you.

Plus this all seems a bit 1950s to me. you'd like to get married, so propose to your dp. He can then say yes or no. I don't know why everyone thinks the man should be in control of this sort of decision.

That's great TheBride but that doesn't apply in lots of situations and all those rights can be arranged/conferred in other ways.

Um no, there really aren't- spousal maintenance is spousal maintenance. If you're not married, there's no way to get it if you split and you have previously been financially supported by your partner whilst you are a SAHM. Similarly, , there is no presumption of 50/50 asset split unless you are married.

I'm in the same situation with my partner - we've been together over two years, and at the start he clearly said that he wanted us to get married when the time was right. We've been living together for over a year now, and when I've brought up the subject of marriage I get excuses like 'I want to make sure I'm financially stable so you're looked after' and the worst one I've ever heard 'I want to get married, but it would affect my tax code'.

He's also been quite contradictory about it - said he really believes in marriage and wants to be married, but when I once pushed him about it, he asked me why I was so bothered about a bit of paper. Like the OP, I think he wants all the comforts without the commitment.

What bothers me the most is the lack of respect and honesty. I've said to him if he doesn't want to commit to marriage, he should at least be honest about it, and then I can decide whether I want to accept that and stay, or leave and we can both find partners who share our goals in life. It's the stringing along 'I do want the same as you, just not yet' thing that I find deeply insulting, to be honest.

Well then leave FFS.

You feel (rightly) disrespected and insulted.

What the fuck are you hanging around for?

Men who really love you and with whom you will have a happy life don't treat you like this.

You have all the knowledge you need. Just act on it before you piss away another two years with this lying timewaster.

I don't agree with that at all. Many men (and women) do not want to get married, or have fears about marriage following a divorce, while still loving their partners and having no desire to be with anyone else. MN is full of such couples. Marriage is not a prize that seals a relationship, it means many things to different people. The problem is of course that the OP does want to be married, so it does need to be addressed further between them.