cross and confused

[bloodypissedoff]

Cross with myself really and not sure how to make life better....

Brief story.

Husband, who I though adored me, had an affair. He left me and dc and went to live with MIL shortly after being found out. At that point OW had decided to stay with her husband. Over months she changed her mind, bad timing because husband was talking about starting to date (me) again and perhaps coming home. Anyway big crunch, he choose her over me and dc, but then she changed her mind. He was very sad and due to other things moved home for a while and never moved out again (despite being asked to).

That was three years ago. He is still here and I still do not feel loved. He says he loves me (but I am sure he is not in love with me). What I do know is that he never ever wants to be as cruel as he was again. I fell to bits when he moved out and begged and begged for him to come back etc etc - he was very cruel, cruel to be kind perhaps as he was positive he would not come back and I should stop hoping and move on.

Now I wake up every day with someone who says he loves me, but whose only concession to me saying I do not feel loved is to say he will try. He tries(!), is nice for a few days and even gives me a hug or two and then it wears off.

Sex was always a big part of out relationship - we have not made love much at all this year and not for last month. He says he has got out of the habit!!!!

I cried this evening and said that this was a living death, because he does not have OW to go to he says he wants to be with children...oh and me. He is actually a decent chap and does not want to hurt me again. BUT this hurts, a lot.

so tonight more tears and he may move out...on the other hand it might all blow over for a month or so...again

I just don't know what to think and do. This is breaking my heart, But my children are better for having their dad back home. But for fucks sake three years! three fucking years...I just don't know what to do or how to do it.

I truly cannot afford counselling.

Don't forget, if he were writing he would talk about how he had tried but I am unable to forgive and reject him

I had the 6 nhs sessions ages ago. With a man called Eric who wore an eighties shell suit and even on the 4th session could not keep my name in his head throughout session! No way will I waste my time on him again!!!! Have to laugh really

In your OP you say you're not sure how to make life better.

Well, there are only really two options

• reconcile yourself to the fact that your husband is with you because the OW didn't want him. I cant give you any advice on that because it wouldnt be within my personal capabilities- I'm too proud and have too much self respect
• kick him out- don't ask him to leave- tell him

Relate will not charge you if your cant afford it.

I am sorry if you misunderstood, what I meant was relationship counselling for you. Go to Relate, explain where you are and what has happened and they will help you to see a way forward.

if he were writing he would talk about how he had tried but I am unable to forgive and reject him
How has he tried? I am not trying to catch you out, I am wondering exactly what he has done that counts as trying.

After an adulterous affair, begging the guilty party to stay is never a good idea; it feeds their ego and makes them complacent.

If you don't want him to pity you, don't be pitiable.

It may seem as if the 3 counsellors treated you harshly but, as each of them has effectively reached the same conclusion, it is probable that your childhood experiences have contributed to you being emotionally needy.

The hurtful truth is that you are only living with your h now because the other woman rejected him. What do you think he would do if she snapped her fingers at this late date? Despite what he has told you, I've got a feeling he'd go running.

Personally I'd have booted him out long ago. If that was not financially viable, I would have moved him out of my bedroom, made it clear to him that I intended to live my own life, and filed for divorce while we were living under the same roof. Those options are open to you.

If you want to break the negative cycle that is currently sucking the joy out of your life, stop pleading with him for love/sex and start looking at ways in which you can build your self-esteem and find an inner happiness that is not dependent on him.

In order for others to love us, we must first be loveable and that begins with loving ourselves. Ask your GP to refer you for counselling so that you can begin to resolve any issues around self-worth which have led to you defining yourself through your relationship with him.

In the meantime take good look at yourself in the mirror. Is it time you updated your 'look'? New hairdo/colour? Modified/altered your make-up? Enlist the help of a girlfriend and ask her to give you a frank assessment of what you need to do to show off and draw attention to your best features.

Find a couple of hours every week to pamper yourself. Relax in the tub with scented candles, exfoliate, defuzz, slather on the body cream, pedicure, mainicure. Do things that make you feel good - and do them for YOU.

You haven't mentioned whether you are working but, regardless, find an interest that you can pursue outside of your home. Evening classes, amateur theatre group, book circle, local government meetings (your town hall will have the details of the various committees together with dates/agendas).

Don't tell your h of your plans; on the appointed night be dressed up ready to go as soon as he arrives home and simply say 'I'm off to a, be or c, your turn to feed the dc/walk the dog/ etc, See you later', leave the house - and don't rush back.

If you are a SAHM sharpen your mind on current events; read newspapers online and pick an article to reflect on in depth before forming your own opinion, join in a m/net debate, listen to radio 4. Give your brain cells some exercise everyday - apart from anything else, this will stop you thinking so much about your trials and tribulations.

If you adopt these tried and tested ways of moving on after the heartache of finding out that the h you adored is little more than a lying twunt, you will find that you can function perfectly well without him and you may discover that he needs you far more than you need him.

If you know nothing else, know that he is NOT your best friend - YOU are.

Don't know if it's the mood I'm in tonight or what, but I too found your OP heartbreaking. You shouldn't have to live like this. You can only sacrifice so much for your children before things take a downturn.

It may not come over from my response above but I also found your post heartbreaking and wish I could make all the pain go away for you - and for so many ops on this, and other, boards.

Unfortunately, I can't heal your hurt - but you can. Please don't keep demeaning yourself by begging for crumbs from his table - when you do this, all you are doing is reinforcing your image of yourself as not being 'good enough', 'loveable enough', or 'worthy enough' of all the joys in life that are rightfully yours.

You are a loving, caring, capable, strong, woman who is not afraid to show your vulnerability but, if you want to regain your self-respect and in the processs gain his, you need to convince him that you are impervious to his false charms and blandishments.

Make him wonder about what you're thinking, what you're doing, where you're going when you swan off an evening or two a week; channel your inner Boudicca - wage (pyschological) war on the complacent, self-satisfied, fucker and make him sweat.

Goddam it, woman, get angry but don't get mad - get even.

You have put up with that situation for three years?!?

Yes, the only person who can really help you is you. It's not necessary to have a man in your life, not that big a deal to have a couple-relationship and nothing is more destructing and damaging than clinging on to a man who doesn't love you and trying to make him change.
This man just likes his home comforts, that's the only reason he's staying. Can you live with that and stop begging and yearning? Ie can you live as non-coupled co-parents and make sure he does his share of the chores and treats you with kindness and courtesy? If not, you need to get him out.

Harsh. Probably all true.

I work, I earn little but have a career that is higher status than his high earning one. I am up to date in current affairs and spend to much on make up as it is so no way a makeover!!! This comes over a bit bitter about comments made. IT IS NOT!!! Just wanted to point out I do have some self respect.

I know this way of living is corrosive. He is not happy either. When he was with ow he was really happy. It hurts that I make him miserable. I am bitter and twisted I do think he has some love for me. He really does not want to hurt me or dc.

Lying in bed here. I won't lie I confess to feeling a little jaded after a little (ok that's a lie was a lot) too much vino last night. He is downstairs. I don't want him up here with me. I don't want him down there while I am up here.

Do any if you think there us any chance? I know that there have been times when I have almost willed myself to love him (we have been together 28 years). You know the fake it until you make it thing? It can and has worked. I think he would stay here for ever. I know he feels rejected by me, as though I will never forgive, etc. His industry is full of affairs, yes his ow woman was closer by far to my sons age than mine.

I an rambling! Perhaps still a bit pissed. Oh dear. I think I love a man who may not have ever existed let alone one who no longer exists.

I am sorry. The mess in my head is worse than 17 year olds bedroom and that is saying something! Thanks for being there. I am a touch lonely right now.

Right, at the moment you obviously don't want to/aren't strong enough to leave.
Go to counselling on your own - perhaps not relate - but something that addresses your feelings, not just in the marriage but as you.
Stop talking about the relationship totally with him. Have a relationship with yourself iyswim. Do some silly stuff as well as serious stuff - new clothes/new haircut/new hobby/friends/an evening just for you.
You need to get your confidence back as what has happened has eaten it away and your H's attitude and the state of the relationship is eating more of it away.
Good result is that you feel better in yourself, you can start being less afraid and look at marriage in different light. Perhaps from out of that you and your H can build a new relationship - you can't go back to the old relationship pre-affair, whatever happens now is new. Your H goes but you are much better able to deal with it, your H wakes up to you and what he is losing, you decide to kick him out and know decision is right for you. Those sound like wins to me all round.
But first you need to bide your time. Can you go away for a weekend on your own - old friend, parents, anything. Good luck

Maybe you need to change tact totally and instead of thinking 'will it work' think 'i'll be fine regardless - I am a strong woman'. Once you take all the pressure off yourself you will see everything clearer.

It is a really freeing thing to do.

tack :)

bloodypissedoff, you need to set yourself free from this awful situation.

And please don't feel you are alone. All of the posters on here are real, live people who care.

Not sorted. That is what I want to do.

Everyone thank you so much. I feel as though I am quite literally going mad most of the time. Your posts have validated my feelings to some extent. I think my husband thinks I am utterly pathetic and pretty unreasonable to be in such a pickle years on. I think that too.

Right or wrong I am very unhappy though, and it is only me that can sort that. I know that cognitively but feel stuck in a pit with very steep sides. I feel such a silly cow (hope that does not upset cow lovers!!!!). I have a poor way of doing relationships, I know this but seem stuck in a cycle with no way out. My poor dc. This is not what I want them to grow up believing about women and relationships. For fucks sake I need a damn good kick up the arse don't I?

Yes! To make you realise that you are not utterly pathetic and pretty unreasonable.

No wonder you think you're going mad - that's a sane reaction to a ridiculously impossible situation. Please stop putting yourself down

Sorry that you are going through this bloodypissoff.

You know deep down he doesn't love the children enough to stay. If OW had wanted him he would have been off, children or not. I am sure he loves them and is a good dad in his way however he would have been willing to abandon you and them and be a weekend father.

You are doing yourself and them no good staying in a relationship where you are all second best and they are growing up thinking that this is what relationships should be like.

Do you have a DD? Would you like her to stay with a man who doesn't want her just the comforts of life because another woman didn't chose him or would you want her to be happy and with a man who loved her?

Do you have a DS? How proud of him will you be if he grows up and does just what his father does? Screws around, breaks his marriage vows, makes the woman he promised to love and cherish feel like you do every day just so he is comfortable in a house because the other woman didn't chose him and he has nothing better?

This is what you are teaching your children.

You deserve much better and so do they.

he's not there because he loves you or for the children - he's there for himself and his own selfish reasons.....

are you happy to be his poor second choice ? :(

if not, you will have to take the reins, and stop letting him make all the choices

I am going to keep going. We have too much of great value in this home to give up on it now. Perhaps I am kidding myself but I do believe he loves me. I think when he had his classic mlc affair it was such a shock to him because he is essentially a good man he had to convince himself it was true love (with a soulmate). I know I need to pay a whole lot more attention to myself in every which way and will try not to get sidetracked from that by caring for others.

As has been said I need to get myself back to being the strong independent woman who would be happy without him.

I feel as though I should set some clear boundaries and almost rules for what he should do. I am not sure what to do it say here though. Do I tell him I want him to do things, if so what things? Do I just wait and watch? Still a bit of a mess in my head. I really cannot do more months of this so need a route out with tangible change.

The only advice I can offer is give it a time limit - maximum six months. (Don't tell him though.)

Otherwise you could be in this position all over again in three years time

Hi Bloodpissedoff,

I am making my first post here, but have lurked for a couple of months. I was moved to register just to write to you. I am a DV professional in London and sit with women all day long working out relationship issues. I wanted to give you my pov.

I have noticed several strains within your posts. Your own life, what your husband did, who he is now, your respect for him and your pain.

I would encourage you to start with your own life and the amount of pain you are in. Start there. Let him be. Life is long and love goes thro stages. Let it be as it is.

As for you, start with the pain. Reduce it by taking tangible steps. Get help round the house where poss and leave the rest. Do things you know you like doing, or used to like doing. Be alone and think. (For me I get out across the fields, the big sky helps. Do what you know helps you.) Let the rest be.

When the pain has died down a bit, start overhauling your own life. If he left, that is exactly what you would have to do anyway, so do it now. Categories are health (including emotions), life / job stuff, hobbies and interests, and social life / friends / family. Overhaul each of these and see what happens. At the very least, you might a glimmer of hope.

The impact of all this may rub off on your husband. I can completely understand you when you say he is a good man. I don't agree that he is being cruel deliberately to you, although the affair has to have been terrible and he did cause that.

None of us can guarantee to be loved in the same way throughout our lives by other people, nor to love in the same way. Life changes and we must change with it. Let this change come about. You strike me as a woman who could use some self esteem for her own sake, independent of her man. There are times in life that we all need that. I admire your resolve to stick with him through it and his to stick with you. But create 'space in your togetherness' for a while. And let that be. Good luck to you x x x

I have read your post loads of times. There are no words to describe how it makes feel. Warmed. Nourished. Cared for. Cared about. Bloody hell. The power of a virtual hug. That is what it felt like. I will come back tomorrow and tell you what I have done although just letting it be would be a huge (in)action. Thank you. It sounds daft but that post is the nicest thing anyone has done for me in a long long time. Thank you.

I read your post yesterday and dint know what to suggest as I know what it is like to feel so low/low self esteem you cant do anything. I know too how the 'madness' in the head because it is too much!!

Depression Alliance I think offer free Cognitive Behavioural Therapy and you are depressed/low from all this...that is my only advice sorry. Also maybe antiD's from gp to help lift your mood too ...when some bit better then assess what you want to do? Otherwise I can't say what to do as you are not me and you will know what to do for you when you are strong enough to deal with it...but the ball is in your court....you have not gotten over the affair it has festered away and could be even worse in couple more years....you have your mental health and your kids to think of. It sounds like though you need to get your self esteem up etc...you have had some fab advice here from MNs and esp notsort and together....keep rereading ....try and think it is not you but your best friend/sister/anyone important in your life this has happened too and what you think they should do?