Scared my ex and his mother are trying to get residency of our son?

[sadandmoresad]

Hi I lurk a lot on these boards and did when I was going through my break-up with ex P. I have 2 children, the youngest is biologically his. I broke with him because of what I think was verbal and emotional abuse, although I realise I did escalate arguments a bit when I probably should have remained calm. But how calm can you remain when your P is calling you names and saying he will be "watching" you just for giving the children toast for breakfast (not a proper breakfast he said). there were many many incidences like this. He was lovely as long as no-one challenged him and everyone agreed with him on issues like childrearing etc, although he never tried to control me and did help in house etc and work ft he did try to control every aspect of childrearing and certain things and is very overbearing in general. His mum is hysterical at times (not just saying that) - she can be sickly sweet but hits out with things like "You care about money more than your children" "you are trying to steal money from my son" on no provocation once when I explained that childcare tax credits could not be halved and paid half to him as they are paid to the main carer that's just the way it works and what difference does it make as long as the childminder is being paid? also none of her business anyway.

Anyhow, I have left now.

On a few occasions since youngest was born (he is 2) ex-P (while we were together) during arguments threatened to take my son away, that I'm an unfit mother (not true), that "the boy would be better off with me, you can visit or see him when he is 16" and this terrifies me now that we have recently split that he may try to actually do this. He lives with his batty mother and between them they could have him full-time, as only he works f/t.

Here is the practicalities -

• DS 'officially' lives with me ie address, docs etc
• I get child benefit for him
• Initially I returned to work p/t when d/s 6 months and used childminder but when he was 9 months I went f/t and mother-in-law has him Monday to Friday 9-5 while I work.
• Both children go there every other Saturday lunchtime to Sunday night
• He has toys and clothes and personal items in both houses
• Both houses would be deemed suitable and are only 5 mins apart

What has been worrying me is that it used to be that DS would be dropped off at 5.30pm to me for dinner and play/bath etc and picked up the next morning at 8-ish before my work. But now mother-in-law has recently been DECIDING (with ex-P who is the only driver and probably can't be bothered stopping work to do drop off) on around 2 weeknights per week that she will just keep him overnight as she is too tired to collect him in morning. Sometimes they will give me the courtesy of asking, sometimes they will leave a text 'informing' me and sometimes they will just wait until I phone at 6 wondering where they are. Last Thursday this happened - I called because no-one had let me know (not confrontational) and MIL snapped "He's in bed now, if you want to come and take him out of bed you can. At least he will get a good breakfast". ex-P condoned it when I called him angry "she didn't mean it, I'm sick of you" etc.

I was livid, it seems they are trying to 'take over' in a way and because of his previous threats to get lawyers and take him, I am very wary of letting him stay but I strongly suspect all hell would break loose if I actually objected. I have said after Thursday that I can pick him up at 5.30pm if ex-P busy at work and also I will drop him off in morning if she is "too tired" so they don't have these excuses but I don't think they will listen at all.

Sorry that turned really long! If anyone has any advice or knowledge of what would be likely to happen if they did try it (there are no child protection issues either side) considering DS is there quite a lot? I am even willing to quit work or get other childcare if it comes to it, but don't want to unless necessary. Scared of the fallout from them as they can both be extremely nasty to me, although both kids love them. I'm still getting periodic snipes from ex-P about how bad as mother I am etc )-:

Thanks and any advice much appreciated. x x

Agree. Change the childcare ASAFP. They are currently providing the majority of care for your younger son. Mon-Fri 9am-5pm and Saturday lunchtime to Sunday night. The courts might be reluctant to split siblings but would that still apply when they spend the weekends together? You don't have to go nuts and put him into nursery full time, but if there's any way for him to do eg 3 days at your MILs, a day with you and one at nursery it would be preferable. How did you end up only having your DSs for half a day on the weekend? Did you get pushed into this? If you want 50:50 custody then go for it, but that doesn't mean your ex gets all the days and you get the nights when your DS needs a bath and then bed!

Your comment "he is no friend to me" YES! that! He is the opposite of friend. NOT to be listened to, NOT to be trusted. He has an agenda, can you see that?

Don't think you are talking to normal people when you talk to those that abuse, they are not normal, they are poison, they pollute everyone and everything they come into contact with

Yes, it did take me a long time to see this, but I do.

But what do I do if I say I'm cutting hours to work 3 days instead of 5. What will I do if they come to the door as usual on the other days?

I have been insistent that these overnight stays have to be kept to every second saturday as DS is there during the day Mon-Fri. But this is even more worrying - what happens if they try to keep hi overnight without asking on a weeknight and I say I'm picking him up and ALL HEEL BREAKS LOOSE (as it seriously would I expect) I'm scared of their reaction. They would put him to bed (even if too early) and say I was a child-abuser if I turned up (they would say I am causing a scene and disrupting and crazy etc). It's weird how I can totally predict the outcome. Bearing in mind I have not had time to text the theory as I have had both children since Friday at 5. So next week coming may be crunch-time if they decide again to just keep him overnight without prior arrangements or even notifying me. makes me feel ill contemplating the fall out.

Minimally, They don't have them every weekend, it's every other weekend. I have them 2 a month, they have them 2 a month. I'd say in terms of actual "hours" ie 24/7 hours it's a 50/50 split. But the majority of daytime weekday care is provided currently by MIL. I will look at changing that. They will go crazy if I put him in a childminder/nursery/friend though as they don't believe in it. I had to fight tooth and nail when he went for 3 months before.

It sounds like both your ex and his mother have given you a constant stream of criticism of your parenting that you've started to believe. You were so afraid of the threats that he could/would take your son away from you, you've allowed him and his mother to dictate the way things will be done.

Them? They have your dd too?

Remember that you do not have to let these people into your house. IF you have told them that you will be looking after DS yourself and they turn up, just don't answer the door. Remember, they are not right, they are not all-powerful, and you don't have to engage with them in any way that you do not want.
Honestly, take all the evidence you have (abusive texts and emails are a good start) to a solicitor, get some advice, the law will help you keep them at a healthy distance. They do not own you and are not entitled to bully you.

I don't believe I'm a bad parent at all. No one is perfect, but I know I'm definitely good enough. I had to get totally numb to him completely and start reflecting on the actual reality basically every single time he spoke before I could leave.

I think the reason I am scared to challenge them is because they will definitely try to turn it on me and things will get really nasty. They are NOT reasonable people (like someone else said). So if I assert myself more, they may set the ball rolling in retaliation.

Can I ask? Are they a different culture to you?

Honestly? You need to find a way to work through the fear. Because all it is doing is allowing them to control you. Your fear of them turning up on your doorstep is stopping you from spending an extra day with your son? If they did decide he was going to stay one night midweek, would you let it go to keep the peace?

'what happens if they try to keep him overnight without asking on a weeknight and I say I'm picking him up and ALL HEEL BREAKS LOOSE (as it seriously would I expect) I'm scared of their reaction. They would put him to bed (even if too early) and say I was a child-abuser if I turned up (they would say I am causing a scene and disrupting and crazy etc).'

Go and get some legal advice. The more you let them bully you into, the stronger you make their case if they did decide to go for residency at some point in the future. Unless you've failed to mention that you're an addict who likes to play with matches why would any court take your son away from you? You look after him? You tuck him in at night? You hold down a full time job? Why would anyone think you were crazy? Get some support and advice and get an agreed visitation in writing. That you are happy with.

Tiffany, they have just DS Mon-Fri 9-5 ish and both children (even though the eldest is not his biologically) every second weekend sat lunchtime - sun teatime. DD only goes every second weekend, not during the week (she is in afterschool til 5.15). This is because she has known them since she was a baby (when i met him) and does not have any other grandparents etc. We were set up like a 2 parents - 2 children family unit before the split. I thought it would be best that both children were treated the same when we were together. That's why it worked out like that. And now the eldest (not his) will cry if she can't go to 'grannies' on the weekend for whatever reason if her brother is going.

No they are same culture, but very ... insular would be the word.

What's the point of living in fear of the unknown?

You need to battle it out in court or at least have an out-of-court legal arrangement. Have a firm document in hand because it protects you, the children, and them. It might end up where it is today: 50/50. Custody/visitation issues tend to be contentious.

Because there's no agreement, ex-dp and his mother feel that they could have the children longer.

I know what its like to be scared of 'war' and you know the type of people you are dealing with here, so its a very real threat.

The first thing I would do is make sure that I was doing most of the childcare. Can you either go part time or take unpaid leave. Yes things will be difficult but help is there and look on it as temporary. You need to do something now and to stop being bullied and take back control. Don't worry about making the fallout worse, they already have an agenda x

Go to a lawyer and take advice on how to protect your children from these other adults in their lives that are verbally abusing, bullying, and belittling you.

The obvious answer will be first to change the childcare arrangements. Do this. You have the right to do it - your son resides with you. You have a NEED to do this, because in abusing you, they are abusing your children.

You could also take advice from Womens' Aid on how to protect yourself when you tell them.

If money is a problem, you may need to go part time - is that possible? - for a while whilst you find a nursery place and also get the CSA sorted from your ex - this is what should be helping pay for childcare!

A legal letter might be the way to go. They have two choices. They accept that 5 days a week is no longer what you think is in the best interests of the child, as they appears to be subjecting your child to parental alienation, and have made threats to take the child. A more balanced environment is needed. You plan two days a week from now on at MIL's, with a nursery for the other days, paid for through an official CSA agreement. No more overnights for your daughter, and a binding agreement proposed in the letter for every other weekend, NO weekday overnights and e.g. the Friday night at yours every week given that your son is there during the week anyway.

If they do not agree to this, you will remove your child from the childcare arrangement completely, and invite your Ex - not your MIL, it is nothing to do with her - to talk over a new visitation agreement.

You need to put the fear of God into them - and you DO have the means to do it. Make your arrangements, send the letter, and when your ex kicks off, tell him calmly that you have taken VERY GOOD legal advice, that you have kept EVERY abusive message that he has sent you. That you have reported that you feel threatened when they refuse to return your son in the evenings, and that a residence order will sort this out. Make it clear that you are willing to take this as far as it can go, and that he really does not want to be put in a situation where a court are reading his texts that 'you can visit him when he's 16' - as it's quite likely that they will decide that it is best that he does NOT spend too much time in the company of people who wish to make him feel bad, sad and guilty about his mum and his living arrangements. Make sure that you keep referring to the effect of this attitude on your SON. And make it clear that from now on, your daughter will not be doing overnights, not until this is sorted... and if that makes your son less happy with being there on the weekends, well, that's he and your MIL's fault...

If he applies to the court for residency, you (as in yor case/DS) will be appointed a SW. They will investigate and compile reports to submit to the court.

As you are using them as childcare for what is most of the week your claim to emotional abuse will be questioned. Tbh you need to find alternative arangements, if you really think that your ex is going to go for residency.

I will say how it sounds to a SW. He and his mum are main carers, he wanted to have his DS looked after in a certain way, as do most mothers, not unreasonable at all. If you had any doubts about them you wouldn't be using them to look after your DS.

You now need to make this arangement formal. As your DS is getting older, childcare changes so look to alternatives, but the court would rather a child be looked at by loving family members than paid care, so do it now. If they break the formal arrangement, stand your ground and demand him back. If you don't the court will question anything you say. If he has been put to bed, get him up and take him home. If they won't let you, call the police, otherwise the court will question your commitment, and tbh, you don't know what your ex will hit out with next, ie, shes happy to leave him here when shes out drinking/sleeping about etc.

Once your DS is 10 the court will take his wishes into account, once he is 14 he can live with who he chooses to.

I am a CP SW and have seen all of this senario unfold, but it is easily nipped in the bud, just be strong.

Just to add the court will not seperate siblings without very good cause, but you are letting them have him overnight and that will go in their favour, as it looks like you are happy for him to stay there away from his sibling.

Right Sad.

I have been in a similar place. Except it was my xh and MY mother I was fighting. They took me to court more than half a dozen times and accused me of being everything bad you can imagine, I even ended up taking an overdose that landed me in hospital. I was terrified that that would confirm my "insanity". (But it didn't, it merely confirmed the level of abuse I was being subjected to.)

AND THEY STILL DIDN'T WIN!!!!!!!

So take heart and strength from that.

Practically, get support form everywhere, yes, a rottweiler of a solicitor, a GP or health visitor, tell some one at surestart what's going on. These abusive types are often very insular and hate the glare of the sunshine on their pathetic little worlds. Let the sunshine in, for you and your children. Start telling everyone who could help you, the TRUTH of what is going on here, and save your babies. Tell friends, anyone, everyone, and keep posting here. (I wouldn't want any kind of an abuser to meet Hissy in a dark alley....or maybe I would. ;-) )

I'll tell you this too...my son who is now 15, who was used by those bastards, merely to hurt me, you know, he's not stupid. He knows the truth, and he knows that I did go through hell and high water for him. Imagine the positive effect that has had on his self esteem. He KNOWS that I will do anything for him, 'cos I did and he saw it happen.

Take strength. Take a deep breath and go save your babies.

I have just read SH post, your MIL is involved as if he applies for residency they investigate all adults living at the address that the NRP lives at. She also provides some childcare.
You have residency already as the child benefits are paid to you, that cannot be changed other than by a court, the police have a duty to return your DS to you.
Also don't overplay the emotional abuse as your ability to safeguard may be called into question because you are allowing so much contact, state the truth, but think before you speak.

Sounds like he has issues...he's still living with his mum but taking out all his anger on you? How does that work that a boy only needs his father?

seriously screwed up people. Sorry you're going through this, take all the advice you can get and act quickly before you end up in a situation where they've taken over by stealth.

Haven't read the whole thread but presuming you've been told to get legal advice asap xxx

I am not sure that is right that she has residency just because she gets the child benefits etc. Her P could apply for the child benefit off his own back anytime and prove that the child is with him/his mother as much if not more than with the OP.

Unless she has been to court she has parental responsibilities. If her ex is on the birth certificate and as the child was born after 2003 he also has these. As such and from seeing quite a few people in despair on this site if he decides to keep his son there is very little that the police can do without court orders.

The OP needs to get to court and get official residency sorted as soon as possible.

I also agree with others that she needs to change the care arrangements as soon as possible.

As it stands the father and his mother are doing at least 50% and could argue for shared custody if not more putting the OP in the position of NRP.

I do agree with others that you are being seen as being happy to leave your child in these peoples care 8 hours a day or more to just turn around and say they are abusive would probably raise a few eyebrows.

Birdsgottafly:

The people who work for agencies such as health/children's/social services are well trained in cases of abuse. Surprisingly so. I think that the OP being bullied out of her chidren's lives should not be down played at all!

I do think that the op should reclaim her children on a practical level, starting today. There have been many replies already on practical ways to do this.

The one thing that abusers do to their victims, is to undermine their very existence and reality. Nobody who knows about this subject (abuse) is under any illusions as to just how tough it is to reclaim yourself and your self belief.

I hope that the people on this thread help the op to realise the extent of what these monsters have done and continue to do. I think that where our babies are concerned, often there is a reserve of strength that we didn't know we had. The op needs to tap into that...again, starting this very morning.

Thisishowifeel- yes i know, i gave the OP the advice to change childcare now, rather than wait, as the sooner the better, otherwise it is the OP word against the ex. It could come across that she isn't being bullied out, but that she is happy to leave them there (the non bio child stays there, also). I am looking at it from a judges POV, the quality of SW's varies between L.A's, whereas i think i can read what has gone on behind the scenes, some just weigh up facts. The cuts in long standing SW management isn't helping. It has become the norm in my L.A to now put a question mark on a RP ability to safeguard if they are allowing overnight stays with an abusive ex. This just keeps an eye on things. The OP needs to make decisions and base all of her actions and reactions on what she has decided.

Xales- the resident parent in cases such as these is the one who claims child benefit, the OP hasn't gone into detail of DS being named on BC etc, residency will be assumed on this basis, as you shouldn't claim CB unless the child resides with you on a pernament basis. The child has a sibling who isn't the bio child of the ex.

Indeed. I know that I have been very lucky to have had the support that I have had over the last few years. More recently it has been a nurse practitioner who has been a "guiding light" for me and my dc's. Other areas of the country are more stretched resource wise.

That was one of the reasons behind suggesting the op talk to as many people as poss, sometimes just one professional that gets it, the behind the scenes stuff especially, can be worth their weight in gold...the bigger the spread, the better the chance of that happening I feel. And it makes the op look as she is being proactive in changing things...all good.

The biggest priority is to get the children out of their current day care routine, agreed. September is such a good month to do that. Even if they are still tiny.

dont give up work - you going to need the income.
working for your child does not mean you lesser being in terms of residency. working to provide for you and dc is a good thing.

but the fact you leaving ds with mil means you ok with that.

and both dc going there every other weekend.

speak toa solicitor - you could apply for residency order to clarify things legally as to who has residency of who.

court may order shared residency - but at least it will then be clear.

jsut tell MIL and exP - i 'd like to make this all clear legally so we all know where we stand - say it calmly etc.
if they blow up - ignore. they can take their views to court.

and yes - if you due to have ds then go and pick him up take him sleeping from bed if needs be.

keep records tho from today of what happens each time. a daily journal. what happened, how dc were etc.
dont argue back to exP or to MIL.
stay calm and keep any texts etc

just got back. Thank you all so much for your advice, it means a lot. Today I am devastated and so worried because I have found that yes - they do have an agenda. Yesterday was DS birthday so I had him from Friday night until Sunday night at 6pm when he was picked up by exP as agreed. I text this morning reminding him that DS was to be dropped off at mine at 6pm or I would collect him a 5.30pm. Got a reply saying "I'm working during the day and my mum is providing childcare for both of us so that does not count. he will be with me 3 nights one week 4 the next" and refused to let me collect him . So basically he is saying DS is to be there mon-fri 9-5 AND 3/4 nights a week AND every second weekend!!!!! I left work early and sat outside their house for 2 hours and buzzed numerous times but no reply . Finally managed to get him on phone and he said he will bring him back tomorrow night. I told him I am cutting hours and will have DS 2/3 days a week during the day. He went "whatever. do what you want with your work but my son won't be in childminders when my mother is here to look after him" I said he will be with me. No response.

.
I can't live like this. I have been crying all day, even in DD's afterschool. I'm so scared and I just feel like giving up.

I can't take leave as I am self-employed, and don't get paid obviously if I'm off. But I could cut down to 3/4 days a week. Or just tell them I'm cutting down hours but leave DS with my best friend on those days (who is a SAHM living near my work, but ex and MIL have only met her a handful of times and don't know her exact address although I've known her 15 years and she says she will help out) Or just give up working altogether suddenly and go onto lone parent benefits I was on before when DD was a baby. I'm prepared to do any of the above.

This is just too much. I'm only 24 but not a bad mother at all. Now I'm terrified. I feel stuck. I know I need to do SOMETHING but don't even know how to begin I'm like a freaking zombie today.