Unclean house, what to say not to offend?!

[WhoseGotMyEyebrows]

What do you say to someone whose house is really dirty? I suppose I could just say nothing but it makes me not want to visit which is sad for all of us. I take my children there (can't stop doing that) but even on my own I find it awful and unhygenic and try not to touch surfaces and things.

There are 2 men living there and the oldest does stuff around the house but only certain things. He does vaccum the living room (just the main area not in the corners or between furniture) and he does the washing up and the ironing (obsessively). The younger one does everything under protest and I don't think he does much more then the washing up occassionally.

The are both healthy and fit and I think the problem is that they just don't know what needs doing, how to do it, and how often.

I have wanted to say something for years (since they have lived alone) but just don't know how to put it.

I thought the best thing would be to mention things as I see them rather then have a big discussion about it. But then yesterday when I went to visit and younger one was making drinks. I didn't get a chance to think about it the words just came out . . . I said "jesus those mugs are filthy!" I didn't mean to be quite so blunt but they really were and the words just came out! The were lined with dark brown, almost like someone had wiped thick dark chocolate around the inside of the mugs. So I tried to soften it by saying how he could get it out but he was obviously pissed off and just grunted at me . I really didn't mean to hurt his feelings but fucking hell I have to drink from them!

The problem isn't that they are stained, it's that things don't get washed up properly so they are actually dirty. They get put in the sink in water and then a while later taken out. That's it. No wiping around or anything!

Don't get me started on the bathroom or the pet food!

You're probably all going to say I am really horrible because of what I said but I really didn't mean to be rude. I've tried subtle and it has no effect.

Some animals don't even do it, itwasthat ! My rabbit always pooed in one corner of his cage and never anywhere else.

oh yes, and i believe cats lick themselves clean so yeah youre right cheerfulyank ... i had pigs in mud in my mind

seriously though, based on that show the people who had filthy homes were desperately unhappy ... and in danger of developing something chronic!

Umm, excuse me
I may not do housework, but I don't poo on the floor and I do shower

aww mathanxiety I need you in my life. I've spent hours on the flylady website trying to cut to the chase, but she confuses me. You've just explained it better in a few sentences! :)

As it's your dad and brother I agree with everyone else that you should say something, but I think there's a risk you'll overload/discourage them even more if you go in with loads of cleaning products, timetable of when they should clean things when, etc.

Could you focus on what directly affects your children when you go there - which presumably means clean crockery and cutlery, cleanish kitchen and cleanish bathroom? Then you can mention your DCs' tender immune systems or whatever and stress that you know it's a bit of a nuisance but you'd really appreciate it if they could make sure the loo and sink etc are clean, you'd be happy to give them a hand next time you're round. That way you can address it without making it into a Massive Issue.

Ime, flylady only works for those that way inclined in the first place.

I have experienced the same problem with my father after my mother died.

He has never done any cleaning and isn't motivated to learn how - he sees it as womens work

What finally worked, after trying many different strategies was -

he was persuaded to get a cleaner, initially for an hour a fortnight and increased to 2 hours a week. The house had to be blitzed first and the cost needn't be great if shared with the rest of the family. He really quite looks forward to seeing her these days and actually does some preparatory tidying etc before she comes!!

he also has a small dishwasher to sterilise the manky pots.

LolaRennt Yes he can be an arse. My brother is a bit of a kid in a mans body. I think part of the problem is that he doesn't know how to clean, but the help and advice is there if he wants it but just doesn't take it. He could easily buy himself a book or ask me. Perhaps he is embarrassed I don't know.

A big part of the problem is that my mum did everything in the house and particularly my brother didn't encourage him to do anything for himself. Even to make his own bed. And no one was ever allowed to attemp anything in the kitchen. She used to even poor out my dads cereal for him! I remember saying to her once that she was setting them up to not be at all self sufficient if anything ever happened to her, but I think she thought it was her job to do it all, whereas I thought it was her job to teach us how to do it.

As you can imagine my children are very independent already and they are only little!

cherrysodalover and springdaffs those houses sound awful!!!!!

MooncupGoddess I think there's a risk you'll overload/discourage them even more if you go in with loads of cleaning products, timetable of when they should clean things when, etc. Could you focus on what directly affects your children when you go there - which presumably means clean crockery and cutlery, cleanish kitchen and cleanish bathroom?

I think that's a good point.

fargate I might suggest the cleaner thing one day.

I can understand the disgusted reactions of those who would want to see some arse seriously kicked about this filth, I really can, but I also don't think arse kicking will work at all. What's your first reaction when someone tells you how crap you are at something? Fuck off probably. It's kind of a default setting for humans under criticism. Which exactly is why calling people fat doesn't help them diet. I think you're rightly disgusted OP but I also think you've got to display your intentions as something more palateable if you want to see a result, however justified the revulsion is.

If they are your dad and brother, then surely you can be a bit blunter about it all. Although my brother's house is not very nice, but I just look at it as an opportunity to strengthen the children's immune system, dust isn't going to hurt unless they have asthma or something. Why not offer to make the cup of tea yourself next time and clean the cups?

If they have no money for a cleaner, and you can't do it yourself, then the chances of it dramatically changing, even if you say something, are fairly low. I think I would try to limit your concern to the things that directly bother you or endanger health (e.g. cups and plates) and let the rest go.

Springydaffs, I wonder if we know the same person, I know a teacher who has gorgeous children but her house is just awful, really beyond anything I have ever seen. However, she looks nice, the children are lovely and no-one seems harmed by it so on they go.

SaffronCake I agree actually. After my mum died a relative (female if that's relevant) came to stay with my dad for a few days and was really harsh about the state of the house. It was already in a state by then as my mum had a longish illness and hadn't been able to do housework, naturally. My dad and brother I had assumed would take up the slack but I suddeny realised that wasn't happening. By then though I was healily pregnant with complications and in a emotional mess and wasn't able to help out to stop it getting worse. Anyway, as I was saying, the relative was very harsh and it really upset my dad as at the point he would going through the worst time of his life. She was incredibly insensitive, rather then helping in a constructive way.

Yes, there is no point being horrid to people, especially when it's their own environment!

Could you get your brother on side by mentioning your concern about your father ('I'm worried about dad's eyesight, he doesn't seem to be able to clean the plates properly any more')? That way you can pitch it as 'Dad's getting older, thank heavens you're around to help him out' rather 'You live in a fetid cesspit'.

Basic cleaning is not hard, all you need is a J-cloth and some multipurpose cleaning fluid. Maybe your brother just doesn't realise this?

If they have never done it before and are happy to live like that why would they start now? i think a lot of men dont even notice dirt and grime. a cleaner sounds like a good idea

I think your standards might be higher than necessary though OP. Some people we never see the point in making beds. A friend of mine calls our cups and house manky and brings her own cups and subconsciously CLEANS the top of our tescos wetwipes when visiting but none of our other visitors ( and we have a lot as ds has SN) ever have an issue with accepting tea and cake.