Unclean house, what to say not to offend?!

[WhoseGotMyEyebrows]

What do you say to someone whose house is really dirty? I suppose I could just say nothing but it makes me not want to visit which is sad for all of us. I take my children there (can't stop doing that) but even on my own I find it awful and unhygenic and try not to touch surfaces and things.

There are 2 men living there and the oldest does stuff around the house but only certain things. He does vaccum the living room (just the main area not in the corners or between furniture) and he does the washing up and the ironing (obsessively). The younger one does everything under protest and I don't think he does much more then the washing up occassionally.

The are both healthy and fit and I think the problem is that they just don't know what needs doing, how to do it, and how often.

I have wanted to say something for years (since they have lived alone) but just don't know how to put it.

I thought the best thing would be to mention things as I see them rather then have a big discussion about it. But then yesterday when I went to visit and younger one was making drinks. I didn't get a chance to think about it the words just came out . . . I said "jesus those mugs are filthy!" I didn't mean to be quite so blunt but they really were and the words just came out! The were lined with dark brown, almost like someone had wiped thick dark chocolate around the inside of the mugs. So I tried to soften it by saying how he could get it out but he was obviously pissed off and just grunted at me . I really didn't mean to hurt his feelings but fucking hell I have to drink from them!

The problem isn't that they are stained, it's that things don't get washed up properly so they are actually dirty. They get put in the sink in water and then a while later taken out. That's it. No wiping around or anything!

Don't get me started on the bathroom or the pet food!

You're probably all going to say I am really horrible because of what I said but I really didn't mean to be rude. I've tried subtle and it has no effect.

My Dad and my brother live like this. I have said to his face that I don't bring the children round because it is smelly and there is catshit on the floor. He doesn't seem bothered - so I don't go.

My house is very very untidy - but this is like the sort of thing that used to be on a Life of Grime where they sent enviromental health in - actually might that be an option? Not an option for mine as it is a large privately owned and used to be a lovely house verging on a bit posh.

birdofthenorth My house sounds like yours! It's called "lived in" . . . or that's what I say anyway.

I wouldn't say anything about the state of the house, it is just how they live and I doubt it will change, you will just cause offence with it, but I wouldn't eat there anymore

ameliagrey Just spit it out- it's harder obviously as you have said nothing for ages. Either take one of them aside and have a "quiet word- use the kids as an excuse- or just go all OTT nad say "OMG! THis place is a tip!"

You see I am tempted to do that but I know the older one's face would crumple! I really don't want to hurt his feelings, he's been through enough. Younger one I have less sympathy for as he is lazy.

Had a quick look at the book someone suggested and it mentions taking it in turns to wash up, which I know is something they have argued about so I could say that is the reason I got it!

Give them a dishwasher for Christmas? You can say it's to resolve the washing-up arguments!

How often do they go to other people's houses and see what 'normal' cleaning standards are?
You could try framing it as that you're worried about their health perhaps. Is there anyone else you could get on side so you could gently tag-team them into realising how bad it is?
I'd speak to the older guy very gently. He may be hurt but he's a grown man who can surely take a bit of lovingly framed straight talk without crumpling like a scolded toddler. You could also say "I've noticed that [younger guy] isn't really pulling his weight around the house, would you like him to help a bit more?" so you're indirectly saying that you've noticed the place is a bit run down.

I always click on these threads worrying that they're about my house!

I'm rather puzzled as to why everyone thinks it's their business. Fair enough, if they ask you or DC to use dirty crockery, you're entitled to re-wash it and never mind their feelings, but walking on a floor that hasn't been vacuumed doesn't threaten your health.

As Quentin Crisp said, dust reaches its natural level if you leave it

I can't speak for everyone else garlic but I felt it wasn't the OP's business as such. I felt that because the men are her family and she seems motivated by a genuine concern for thier wellbeing it was alright to try to help them as long as she was prepared to make peace if if they took grave offence. She said she gets round the dirty plate thing by giving her kids McDonalds. That was what made me think it was about the men and thier quality of life and not about her children- she's sorted the children.

Turning this on its head OP- you could benefit from some lessons in being assertive
Being assertive means being able to speak the unspeakable in a non aggressive, non confrontational way.

The point is, their lifestyle is making you feel uncomfortable, and could endanger your kids' health.

Rather than continue to protect them from the consequences of their own scruffiness, you can either carry on, which means you are turning a blind eye, visit less, ( and no, they won't get the message) or tackle it.

I really don't see why you cannot say "Look, this is quite tricky and delicate, and don't take it personally...but....I am worried about my kids when I bring them here, because neither of you spends much time doing housework, do you?" And say it with a smile.

OR- you could simply turn up with y our rubber gloves and offer to blitz the place.

I don't know- who are they? Nephews? Uncles?
so much depends on who they are and your relationship with them.

peeriebear The only house they really go to is mine which is a lot cleaner, although probably more messy as there are always toys everywhere. There is a difference though isn't there between messy and dirty.

Older one knows that younger one doesn't pull his weight and has often moaned to me about it. I have given advice but I get the impression that older one feels he has to look after the younger one (do everything for rather) as thats what the woman of the house used to do for everyone, which is why they are clueless about it.

I might just ask if the chore disputes are still going on to get the ball rolling.

Naetha Tell me your real name and I'll tell you if it's your house (only if you are a man)

p.s. the other option is- if they have the cash, could they afford a cleaner once a week for 2 hours to give the place a good going over?

I think it IS your business BTW as it impacts on you.

I used to hate visiting my MIL as her loo was always dirty- wee running down the front (outside) of the loo, and dribbles all over the seat. I think her eyesight was bad.

Yes SaffronCake is right, I am concerned about them. Also I wonder what will happen if either of them meet a woman. It would be shame if the first time they brought her home she ran a mile, I would!

We have found ways around it with the children (tricky when they were crawling!) although this doesn't work a lot of the time as I can't say no to every snack or drink the kids are offered when we are there, and snacks often come in dirty cups or with dirty spoons and I am mostly not that quick enough to intervene or able to do it descretly. I partly think it's not that bad for the dcs as it boosts the immune system but in other ways I hate it. For example one of the men get coldsores and I don't want my dcs to catch them. I get them myself and they are painful and embarrassing. So unwashed cups aren't great.

ameliagrey I would consider the blunt thing just so worried about hurting feelings. It would be better if it just came up in conversation (wishful thinking). You have a point about the assertiveness thing although that would be more relevant regarding my ILs.

Don't think they can afford a cleaner but you never know. One is my dad and one is my brother.

Are you saying it bothers the older man, but he's got some ishoos around doing it all? In that case, I think it would be good to turn up with your Marigolds and offer to help him blitz it. I've done this for friends in the past (and have found out how good they are as friends, since nobody's doing it for me now!)

If it doesn't bother them too much, then you should be able to discuss it easily - presumably, they've formulated some philosophy like Mr Crisp and me. That would be the ideal time to raise the matter of crockery & dishwashers.

Well you have two options- keeping quiet, or possibly hurting his feelings.

I think that if you acknowledge it might hurt his feelings- openly, to him, it's less likely it will.

Just toughen up and get it over with!

I'd say you are worried about the kids picking something up, and do they need a bit of help, support re. keeping the place ship shape.

hmm - i had to say something and then DO something about it - my sil was living in absolute filth with her 3 dcs, chaos, crap and misery - she was sooo down and depressed, her dh did fuck all and eventually buggered off and i felt so sorry for her, she looked dreadful, kids smelt, etc etc, it sounds heavy handed i suppose (my mil died years ago when sil was very young, sil is much younger than me) i took it on myself to get the place sorted, a couple of weekends, some elbow grease inside and my dh going like a steamtrain with the mower, a skip for the rubbish etc, 3 years on and she hasnt looked back, her and the dcs live in a lovley comfortable home that she feels she can have friends over to for dinner etc, new bloke, new college course, in fact she is like a new person! she says now that she just didnt know where to begin, everything had got on top of her and she was desperate for some help, if she feels overwhelmed ever (quite rare these days) she calls, i go over with the marigolds and we get on with it!, i would much rather she asked than waited for it get like it was again - so, i guess i would advise saying something about it but also be prepared to offer practical help as well!

fwiw (sorry, epic post! ) when mil died, fil was left with an enourmous house to take care of, he joined a widow/widowers support group in the hope of getting an idea of how the run the home after breavement, the trouble was, all the women had run homes for years anyway and knew what to do, they were looking for help regarding understanding pensions/investments etc and couldnt grasp that fil was looking to be told basic 'homecare' tips like when to change the bed/hoover etc (it makes him sound dim, but he was so grief stricken he was in a kind of daze for a couple of years) - perhaps your relatives felt the same and now feel like my sil did! 'where do we start'!

What a lovely post, jwn :)

Tbh hiring a professional company to blitz it is pointless if they don't know HOW to clean.

I would raid Tescos and fill my car up woth cleaning supplies and go round there and show them how its done.

Just go in and say " Look {insert names} i've been meaning to say this for ages but didn't want to offend you but i'm concerned you arn't coping with the household duties. I have brought the whole cleaning isle of Tesco and its sitting in my car right now, shall we crack on {whislt rolling sleeves up})

That way you can show both of them how to clean properly and perhaps even draw up a cleaning rota for them to share responsobilities

JWN I'm going to second that sentiment but the other way round. I was not happy when I met OH, but within 2 weeks I'd blitzed 17 bin bags of assorted junk from my house and never once missed any of it. I told him I didn't want him to do it because it was my mess and it was for me to fix but that I got despondant about it and it was hard to take the job on without sinking into unhappiness again. So he sat with me. He fetched bin bags, carried full ones out made the tea and provided the humour. He did hoover upstairs too, but that was all. The actual clean only took me 2 days once I felt I wasn't alone and wasn't a bad person for having let it go. He makes wicked tea.

Awww :) :) :)

Id not take my kids to a house that dirty, ever.

And I certainly would not drink from a dirty mug either.

You were right to say something, I wouldn't go there again until the place had had a proper clean.

Would they take kindly to a book as a present? I've got one which is - 1000 housekeeping tips- and it tells you how to clean each room, and what you need.
I wonder if it could break the ice then you could all roll up your sleeves and get stuck in, one day?

How about you offer to pay for a one-off spring clean as a present? That might inspire them to try to keep it clean and it will be much easier than cleaning away years of grime.

Or, alternatively, ask if you can help with a bit of cleaning as you have noticed that the house is a bit grubby?

garlicbutter My dad does like things to be done but only the things it occurs to him to do, such as washing, ironing and washing up and he does dust shiny things. Apart from that I never hear him mention the other jobs, that's why I think he doesn't even realise they need doing.

jesuswhatnext Yeah it was a bit like that with the bereavement and the dirt getting out of hand. But also, I think I said, that my mum used to do it all for them so they never actually learnt how to do that stuff. My mum wasn't that clean (housework wise or washing lettuce - bugs alert! Slightly traumatised by that) either really so even when she was alive it was borderline.

HairyBeaver Hmm might do that.

ameliagrey Someone else mentioned a book and I was considering it. Mentioned it to my husband and he pointed out that it wouldn't get read and would be left on a shelf which he is right about. Neither of them cook either which is awful as their diets are terrible, so I got them a book which is intended for students leaving home and learning to cook for the first time, so really basic. They have never read it.